Royal Mint - Great Engravers 2021 - Gothic Crown information

[Jeffers46]

8 minutes ago, SilverMike said:

Everyone is a flipper imo, just different strokes for different folks. unless you’re getting buried with them, but even then you are just keeping them for the flippers of the future.

Id be interested to hear from those that adamantly deem themselves not flippers as to what is an acceptable period of time to hold a coin to say you are a genuine collector and at the point is there an acceptable % uplift over what you paid on release that you deem not profiteering? Or do you need to sell at what you paid (irrespective of time and markets) to not be a flipper? if the market has crashed and you sell for what you paid is that ok?

i get it, ive been annoyed when ive missed releases but i dont hold it personally against those selling, yes some regret and undoubtedly envy but i just accept it, but everyone is different 

Great comment. 
 

Some people think they are more entitled to a newly released coin than others, simply because they are ‘collectors’. What a strange position to take, almost like it comes from a place of hurt personal feeling that ‘I have missed out’. 
 

It’s the free market baby, put up or shut up in my view. They don’t seem to complain if it benefits them…

[apachebleu]

1 hour ago, Jeffers46 said:

Yes I was not referring to them, more of a general observation of comments directed towards so-called ‘flippers’.

I also could not see one word, which was starred out… ****

Fair enough, I was a little confused by your reaction but I can see why the constant bemoaning of flipping is tiresome. To an extent I agree we are probably all flippers in the long term with something so I'm certainly not against making a profit, it's just dissapointing to see people here denied a chance to own something that would have meaning to them while seeing items on ebay within minutes of the sale ending.

 I may have been a tad snarky at the end though which was possibly uncalled for and did get me a telling off which was fair enough

[Timberwolf]

42 minutes ago, SilverMike said:

Everyone is a flipper imo, just different strokes for different folks. unless you’re getting buried with them, but even then you are just keeping them for the flippers of the future.

Id be interested to hear from those that adamantly deem themselves not flippers as to what is an acceptable period of time to hold a coin to say you are a genuine collector and at the point is there an acceptable % uplift over what you paid on release that you deem not profiteering? Or do you need to sell at what you paid (irrespective of time and markets) to not be a flipper? if the market has crashed and you sell for what you paid is that ok?

i get it, ive been annoyed when ive missed releases but i dont hold it personally against those selling, yes some regret and undoubtedly envy but i just accept it, but everyone is different 

IMO the difference is that a collector will simply not want to sell certain coins. For example, I recieved my 2oz gold Gothic Crown a few days ago, and it's just beautiful. I can honestly say I don't want to sell it,  as I want to look at it often over the years and sleep well at night knowing it's safely in my collection, in perfect condition.

If I were in the position where I had to sell assets, my gold 2oz would be the last coin I sell.

[Samcrewsilverlover]

Saw this on ebay,don't know if others have seen it..was shocked it didn't sell!!!

[HerefordBullyun]

6 minutes ago, Samcrewsilverlover said:

Saw this on ebay,don't know if others have seen it..was shocked it didn't sell!!!

be very careful on ebay just saying.....

[NewCoins]

Do you have a link?

[SilverMike]

I’d be interested to know if my latest exploits deem me a flipper or not:

i bought the silver 2022 annual sets as I wanted the JC crown. I don't want the rest, not my thing and they are expensive. So I've stripped it out the set. I had offered the remainder here at what was equivalent to less than cost. No one wanted them, fair enough, so I've shot the lot on ebay to move on. If those coins sell and I effectively get the crown I wanted for cheap, next to nothing or even make more than the whole set cost does that make me a flipper? but if they sell for nothing and the crown costs me a 80% of the set price does that make me a collector? some would say how can I be a collector splitting a set up, but thats exactly what the daddy of flippers does, the RM and i’ve collected the crown(s).

[Samcrewsilverlover]

6 minutes ago, HerefordBullyun said:

be very careful on ebay just saying.....

Thanks, I know about ebay...I never buy coins from there unless I know the seller...I did have another look,its now been re-listed for £620?? 

[James32]

5 minutes ago, SilverMike said:

I’d be interested to know if my latest exploits deem me a flipper or not:

i bought the silver 2022 annual sets as I wanted the JC crown. I don't want the rest, not my thing and they are expensive. So I've stripped it out the set. I had offered the remainder here at what was equivalent to less than cost. No one wanted them, fair enough, so I've shot the lot on ebay to move on. If those coins sell and I effectively get the crown I wanted for cheap, next to nothing or even make more than the whole set cost does that make me a flipper? but if they sell for nothing and the crown costs me a 80% of the set price does that make me a collector? some would say how can I be a collector splitting a set up, but thats exactly what the daddy of flippers does, the RM and i’ve collected the crown(s).

Your money Your perogative sir!

If you want to keep a specific coin and throw the rest at the neighbours windows then I'm good with that ( in fact I'd join in if close enough )

I honestly think this is a complete contradiction of a conversation ( not you but others above) and I'm going to stop reading lol as I'm getting the urge to become a supposed flipper and list everything 2022 i have in the sales page just to be pedantic of course. 

[James32]

7 minutes ago, Samcrewsilverlover said:

Thanks, I know about ebay...I never buy coins from there unless I know the seller...I did have another look,its now been re-listed for £620?? 

Didn't sell because of a reserve price!

And seller turned down the £350 a few times ( dont ask how I know) 😁

[SilverJacks]

3 hours ago, Stu said:

I suspect some folk blocking collectors out the RM QIT system will be the same folks flipping trainers or whatever is hot.

I think this is why the prices depreciate so rapidly. The success of these coins have caught the attention of more than just coin enthusiasts. Personally, I don't blame anyone. We all want a free market.

Most members of this forum would acquire multiples of these coins given the chance. Some were lucky enough to have secured two coins while others missed out entirely. I consider myself lucky to have got one but disappointed it wasn't the two coin continuation. I have no problem with anyone that has done better than me in acquiring their coins. They are in a position I'd like to be in.

I must say I do wonder how some people seem to have a very high success rate in acquiring their coins through the Queue-it system. They seem to be at the front of the queue every time. Is that really by chance. It's not a criticism and I wouldn't expect them to share their secrets with an online forum, so I don't blame them. But It is a tad irritating when you're 4000 in the queue and wondering if there's a trick to get to the front.

Then there's the mint marquee. The cat's out the bag with that one. I wonder how RM will cope with a huge increase in members. I predict it won't be quite so exclusive in the near future. except for the upper levels possibly

 

3 hours ago, Zhorro said:

Don't forget about all the coins that are still at the graders.  I have a feeling that quite a number of dealers did not put their initial allocations on the market but sent them straight off for grading.

This and the fact that RM have been fulfilling the orders in batches can potentially keep the price down as more coins have yet to reach the market.

But it's still early doors.  What will these coins be worth in a few years? We're only 3 coins in to what could be the best series RM have ever produced

 

2 hours ago, NewCoins said:

Do you think its ALL hype ?

It's definitely a factor but I wouldn't say it is ALL hype. It's a fantastic series. RM have the opportunity to keep it that way if they don't ruin it by raising the mintage figures and various denominations. 

How long will the hype last? What is the value of each coin once it subsides? Who can tell? Maybe they are currently overvalued. Maybe as the series unfolds and people need to backdate their collection, the current prices might look cheap... 🤷‍♂️ 

[Samcrewsilverlover]

42 minutes ago, James32 said:

Didn't sell because of a reserve price!

And seller turned down the £350 a few times ( dont ask how I know) 😁

Awwww.... OK I won't ask..😉

[Darr3nG]

1 hour ago, James32 said:

I'm getting the urge to become a supposed flipper

[SilverMike]

1 hour ago, Timberwolf said:

IMO the difference is that a collector will simply not want to sell certain coins. For example, I recieved my 2oz gold Gothic Crown a few days ago, and it's just beautiful. I can honestly say I don't want to sell it,  as I want to look at it often over the years and sleep well at night knowing it's safely in my collection, in perfect condition.

If I were in the position where I had to sell assets, my gold 2oz would be the last coin I sell.

I think thats fair enough, but I imagine the vast majority of us, regardless of out respective nett worth collect within a range of affordability. I think for most of us a £5k gold coin is either unaffordable or a serious investment. If that coin never really changed much in value those who could afford it would likely be happy to hold and enjoy. But if that coin becomes worth 20k that collector needs to seriously ask themselves is it worth 20k to me, would I buy it for 20k, could I afford to buy it for 20k, do I want a 20k coin in my collection, etc. If the answer is no to any of those questions then I think its time to sell to someone who will answer yes to one or more and everyone moves on, the seller happy they had one for a while and isnnow able to buy stuff that suita their affordability and the buyer enjoying their valuable collection. 

Dont get me wrong, there a handfull that have just come in to the market as they see rhe margins, but i have no issue with them as to be successful they need to do a lot of research first. I also genuinely don’t think they refelct the majority of what alot of people here and elsewhere are grouping as ‘flippers’

[Bars]

4 hours ago, TeaTime said:

The flipping of these coins has produced an unnatural and inflated market. The days of studying the coin and making a reasoned decision to purchase at your leisure have gone. Now, if you don't buy immediately from the source then you have no choice but to purchase on the secondary market or go without.

Historically popular coins were a slow-burn that increased in value over time. Part of the process was the diminishing numbers of available coins, something that is rarely going to happen with modern proofs. The expectation that a brand new coin should immediately be worth 2 or 3 times it's purchase price is unrealistic - driven by speculators and, to some extent, grading companies.  

Pretty much everyone who collects / buys RM coins does so in the expectation of future profits. The reality is that the majority of coins end up worth a lot less than the original sale price. Who can blame flippers for cashing in on the hype - striking whilst the iron is hot is not a bad thing in itself. But it does leave a sour taste in my mouth.

The real question is - why do people fall for the hype over and over again ?

 

Because we all love a pound note!

[NewCoins]

11 minutes ago, Bars said:

Because we all love a pound note!

Coin, surely ? 😉

[NewCoins]

55 minutes ago, SilverJacks said:

 

It's definitely a factor but I wouldn't say it is ALL hype. It's a fantastic series. RM have the opportunity to keep it that way if they don't ruin it by raising the mintage figures and various denominations 

How long will the hype last? What is the value of each coin once it subsides? Who can tell? Maybe they are currently overvalued. Maybe as the series unfolds and people need to backdate their collection, the current prices might look cheap... 🤷‍♂️ 

I certainly don't think it's all hype either.

I think they will continue to increase mintage figures to balance out the market more. But, getting that wrong will detract from future coins in the series I would imagine.

If the first three will always be the most demand, you would imagine the values would be related to their rarity.

 

[SilverJacks]

1 hour ago, SilverMike said:

I think thats fair enough, but I imagine the vast majority of us, regardless of out respective nett worth collect within a range of affordability. I think for most of us a £5k gold coin is either unaffordable or a serious investment. If that coin never really changed much in value those who could afford it would likely be happy to hold and enjoy. But if that coin becomes worth 20k that collector needs to seriously ask themselves is it worth 20k to me, would I buy it for 20k, could I afford to buy it for 20k, do I want a 20k coin in my collection, etc. If the answer is no to any of those questions then I think its time to sell to someone who will answer yes to one or more and everyone moves on, the seller happy they had one for a while and isnnow able to buy stuff that suita their affordability and the buyer enjoying their valuable collection. 

Dont get me wrong, there a handfull that have just come in to the market as they see rhe margins, but i have no issue with them as to be successful they need to do a lot of research first. I also genuinely don’t think they refelct the majority of what alot of people here and elsewhere are grouping as ‘flippers’

Great point on coin valuation. Last year I was lucky enough to get a 2oz silver Three Graces. Small potatoes to some. But to me, holding a coin that was worth £2000, then 1300, then 1000 etc. It was enough to detract from enjoying ownership of the coin. A nice problem to have albeit. I still have the coin, but wish I sold immediately. The returns could've bought 2x PF70's right now...

 

For someone securing a 2oz gold, they may have storage/insurance issues to think of. It may be more convenient to part with immediately for many reasons. But either way, we are all entitled to try and purchase sought after coins and we're all entitled to make our own decisions on what we do with them, if lucky enough to get one.

It is for this reason that I don't particularly like the idea of securing coins via the mint marquee. I understand rewarding people for their loyalty, but not by offering them coins that everyone else has to queue up for. That's not my idea of a free and open market. I think everyone should have equal opportunity to purchase these coins.

 

[westminstrel]

Slightly tangential to the whole flipping topic… but imagine having a et of all four 2 Oz gold coins. 😭

That’s not me crying - just my eyes watering.

[NewCoins]

8 hours ago, NewCoins said:

After sleeping on it, and taking some pictures this morning, I have decided to return the 10oz.

It's minor, you can notice it with the naked eye, but it's not that big of an issue. But, for a coin that costs a tad over 1k, I think I should expect better.

Hopefully I can get a replacement, but I would rather not keep if they can't replace it. I may have had a different view if I didn't have the 2 and 5oz too.

I would appreciate people's opinions all the same. Thanks !

So, the Royal Mint won't exchange it, but obviously they will refund it.

After closer inspection it seems the marks on the obverse, oddly are on the capsule. These are probably the worst ones.

You can see them on the reverse on this picture I posted on today I received. They are minor (coin on the left)

Any views on the grading impact would be very much appreciated. My assumption would be a 70 would be out of the window.

 

[TeaTime]

I don't think it's all hype - a beautiful design or a design that holds historical significance will always be just that. And it will always be popular. These Great Engravers coins though are, at the end of the day, copies made for those who cannot get an original coin - either for lack of funds or because of the scarcity of them. 

I have no problem with anyone buying with a view to making a profit - be it next week or next decade. As has been said we all love a pound note and i have taken advantage of the the zeitgeist myself in the past. I like to think though that it has not been at anyone else's expense - just market forces (and maybe gullible purchasers). When a coin release has a small mintage which is snapped up by speculators who manage to buy multiple coins (contrary to the supposed purchase limits) at the expense of collectors then it just feels wrong.

I have seen many secondary market listings for the gothic arms coin which state that multiple coins are available - this, to me, is the hype i am referring to. An artificial scarcity. 

Just my rambling thoughts 😁  

 

[NewCoins]

I think people being able to buy multiple of the same coin, is pthe RM not having the ability/not be bothered to understand who bought an individual coin and the subscription version of the same coin. 

[Samcrewsilverlover]

34 minutes ago, NewCoins said:

So, the Royal Mint won't exchange it, but obviously they will refund it.

After closer inspection it seems the marks on the obverse, oddly are on the capsule. These are probably the worst ones.

You can see them on the reverse on this picture I posted on today I received. They are minor (coin on the left)

Any views on the grading impact would be very much appreciated. My assumption would be a 70 would be out of the window.

 

I know my eyes are bad but I cant see where the problems are???🤔

[NewCoins]

2 minutes ago, Samcrewsilverlover said:

I know my eyes are bad but I cant see where the problems are???🤔

Can you see the yellow rings in the post you quoted, quoted ?

[GoldDiggerDave]

32 minutes ago, NewCoins said:

So, the Royal Mint won't exchange it, but obviously they will refund it.

After closer inspection it seems the marks on the obverse, oddly are on the capsule. These are probably the worst ones.

You can see them on the reverse on this picture I posted on today I received. They are minor (coin on the left)

Any views on the grading impact would be very much appreciated. My assumption would be a 70 would be out of the window.

 

Quality issues are personal choice and it’s a trade off between how hard you look vs what you are willing to accept.  The RM has to make more available for exchange until they can drive the quality up.  On a very high demand coin you always run the risk of a palm off refund.  
 

Grading……said this before it’s a lottery, I’ve sent coins that I would have point blank rejected and some in here would be blasting Anne Jessopp……these all got PR70UC…….and at the same time I sent a totally perfect coin of the same one and got a PR69UC.