Royal Mint - Great Engravers 2021 - Gothic Crown information

[apachebleu]

36 minutes ago, James32 said:

Whilst I get the direction your comment is Going in, I'm going to play devil's advocate and say "flippers" play their part in this mad old journey we are on!

Sometimes their actions can work in our favour and drive price upwards?

Without secondary sellers then certain collectors wouldn't stand a chance in hell in acquiring their desired coin.

Lastly and most importantly (90%) of us are flippers on some level deep down and we all have a price?

Whilst I've every intention of making the set and holding long-term, I'm more than honest enough to admit that if someone offered me an obscene amount compared to rrp then not only would they get my crown ....I'd wrap it in silk for them lol.

My point is....being angry because someone else is trying to improve the quality of their or family's life even for a short while is pointless.

Live and let live I say.

Tough one isn't it? Flippers push the prices up which is great if you have the coin but they stop a lot of real collectors getting the coin initially.

 I do agree with you in a lot of ways but I would say the flipper culture actually hurts long term prices. Una coins don't come up for sale often because they were bought by collectors to hold which has made them valuable, I think that at least in the short term flippers have hurt the market for this coin by flooding the market. I think the 2022 soverign proofs suffered from the same problem, it had everything needed to succeed but realistically price wise it has floundered in spit of a quick sell out.

 On the plus side the *******s doing this probably bought a bunch of jubilee coins and will get burned on them

Edited January 14, 2022 by Lr103

[MapleLeaf]

Just got my 2 oz Gothic Crown after a super long wait. It is beautiful and no flaws except a piece of frosting missing on the U (quite big imho). What are the chances to get a decent replacement with this flaw? Or should I live with it? Not planning on grading btw. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by MapleLeaf

[MrB]

I've sent stuff back for that kind of thing. For the price you pay you want better than that. 

Looks like you are missing another piece on the O at the bottom of the picture too.

Edited January 14, 2022 by MrB

[James32]

17 minutes ago, apachebleu said:

Tough one isn't it? Flippers push the prices up which is great if you have the coin but they stop a lot of real collectors getting the coin initially.

 I do agree with you in a lot of ways but I would say the flipper culture actually hurts long term prices. Una coins don't come up for sale often because they were bought by collectors to hold which has made them valuable, I think that at least in the short term flippers have hurt the market for this coin by flooding the market. I think the 2022 soverign proofs suffered from the same problem, it had everything needed to succeed but realistically price wise it has floundered in spit of a quick sell out.

 On the plus side the people doing this probably bought a bunch of jubilee coins and will get burned on them

Yeah I'm not fighting their corner by any stretch of the imagination but simply suggesting that deep down we all have a price?

And I don't put stuff on the sales forum to loose money lol ( break even or small profit suits me) so essentially I'm a flipper on some level.

Most importantly though my response to the op was born from the fact that saying flippers must be poor and/or desperate is both naive and insulting. 

Imagine they are a large portion of them poor and desperate?? Let them eat like the rest of us I say.

[James32]

10 minutes ago, MapleLeaf said:

Just got my Gothic Crown after a super long wait. It is beautiful and no flaws except a piece of frosting missing on the U (quite big imho). What are the chances to get a decent replacement with this flaw? Or should I live with it? Not planning on grading btw. 

Yeah sorry but in my humble opinion, send that back but be sure to seek assurance you will get a replacement. 

I agree with @MrB you seem to have an issue on the bottom O also.

[Oldun]

I am surprised flippers are selling so quickly. When the portrait comes out, those that only get a portrait will be after the arms to make a set…that will push the arms coin prices up wouldn’t you think ? But heck, what do I know ?

Edited January 15, 2022 by Oldun

[NewCoins]

9 hours ago, NewCoins said:

Do you ever wish you never looked at you coins with a loupe ? I clearly live on the edge on a Friday night!

The 10oz, has some dings on the rim. Not sure how I feel about it to be honest. I think I am mostly OK with it, considering it's the rim and doesn't really detract from the coin.

However, as its quite expensive part of me isn't so sure if I should be accepting of it. 

I am considering grading them, but not so sure anyway. The hassle for one. Presumably dings on the rim would effect the grade?

Would appreciate any thoughts.

Obviously I would prefer a perfect example but as always not sure if I would get a replacement.

All said, I do think the RM have done a good job with these coins, therefore don't feel as annoyed as I normally would be. Perhaps I am mellowing in my old age.

After sleeping on it, and taking some pictures this morning, I have decided to return the 10oz.

It's minor, you can notice it with the naked eye, but it's not that big of an issue. But, for a coin that costs a tad over 1k, I think I should expect better.

Hopefully I can get a replacement, but I would rather not keep if they can't replace it. I may have had a different view if I didn't have the 2 and 5oz too.

I would appreciate people's opinions all the same. Thanks !

[magpie79]

2 hours ago, Oldun said:

I am surprised flippers are selling so quickly. When the portrait comes out, those that only get a portrait will be after the arms to make a set…that will push the arms coin prices up wouldn’t you think ? But heck, what do I know ?

Agreed and dealers also, gives me further evidence that’s it all done 

someone mentioned that the dealers are selling cheap to keep the cogs turning but surely they can hang on till March to double up 

[marston59]

This is just my opinion; all coins I receive from the Royal Mint I send for grading so they must have a chance of obtaining a grade 70.

All 5oz and above coins I send for grading have high fees etc. so I return marked coins to the mint and ask for a replacement or refund or on some (Great Engravers) I ask to have them returned.

[Paul]

£425 is the latest price for 2oz gothic crown I saw on FB collectors group in past 12hourd . It sold quick enough

[NewCoins]

6 minutes ago, marston59 said:

This is just my opinion; all coins I receive from the Royal Mint I send for grading so they must have a chance of obtaining a grade 70.

All 5oz and above coins I send for grading have high fees etc. so I return marked coins to the mint and ask for a replacement or refund or on some (Great Engravers) I ask to have them returned.

Thanks for your view 👍

[Stu]

3 hours ago, Oldun said:

I am surprised flippers are selling so quickly. When the portrait comes out, those that only get a portrait will be after the arms to make a set…that will push the arms coin prices up wouldn’t you think ? But heck, what do I know ?

For some a £260 outlay, especially this time of year is a hard period to keep cash locked up, never mind holding out until March or whenever  they will have another outlay for the portrait. . The hype has been quite high with these, I suspect some folk blocking collectors out the RM QIT system will be the same folks flipping trainers or whatever is hot. 

[Stu]

1 hour ago, NewCoins said:

After sleeping on it, and taking some pictures this morning, I have decided to return the 10oz.

It's minor, you can notice it with the naked eye, but it's not that big of an issue. But, for a coin that costs a tad over 1k, I think I should expect better.

Hopefully I can get a replacement, but I would rather not keep if they can't replace it. I may have had a different view if I didn't have the 2 and 5oz too.

I would appreciate people's opinions all the same. Thanks !

Minor imperfections, not sure if it would affect grading if going down that route. I would suggest putting on sale here for cost plus £100 if not happy. Chances of a replacement from the mint are low I would think. That way someone else can appreciate the coin. 

[NewCoins]

2 minutes ago, Stu said:

Minor imperfections, not sure if it would affect grading if going down that route. I would suggest putting on sale here for cost plus £100 if not happy. Chances of a replacement from the mint are low I would think. That way someone else can appreciate the coin. 

I will chat to them, maybe today. To see what the chances are. I know they will likely say they need to see it. Hopefully I can get a feel for the situation, and maybe get an understanding if I can return it, and get it back if they aren't willing to replace.

It is a great coin, at least in my opinion and I will consider your suggestion if they aren't willing to replace. Thanks !

[TeaTime]

The flipping of these coins has produced an unnatural and inflated market. The days of studying the coin and making a reasoned decision to purchase at your leisure have gone. Now, if you don't buy immediately from the source then you have no choice but to purchase on the secondary market or go without.

Historically popular coins were a slow-burn that increased in value over time. Part of the process was the diminishing numbers of available coins, something that is rarely going to happen with modern proofs. The expectation that a brand new coin should immediately be worth 2 or 3 times it's purchase price is unrealistic - driven by speculators and, to some extent, grading companies.  

Pretty much everyone who collects / buys RM coins does so in the expectation of future profits. The reality is that the majority of coins end up worth a lot less than the original sale price. Who can blame flippers for cashing in on the hype - striking whilst the iron is hot is not a bad thing in itself. But it does leave a sour taste in my mouth.

The real question is - why do people fall for the hype over and over again ?

 

[Stu]

1 minute ago, NewCoins said:

I will chat to them, maybe today. To see what the chances are. I know they will likely say they need to see it. Hopefully I can get a feel for the situation, and maybe get an understanding if I can return it, and get it back if they aren't willing to replace.

It is a great coin, at least in my opinion and I will consider your suggestion if they aren't willing to replace. Thanks !

I think you will get the standard blurb from the mint but be wary. If you decide to return include a letter with the coin stipulating the coin is your property and if they cannot replace you want it returned.

If you decide to sell in the end send me a PM.

Stu

 

[Zhorro]

3 hours ago, Oldun said:

I am surprised flippers are selling so quickly. When the portrait comes out, those that only get a portrait will be after the arms to make a set…that will push the arms coin prices up wouldn’t you think ? But heck, what do I know ?

Don't forget about all the coins that are still at the graders.  I have a feeling that quite a number of dealers did not put their initial allocations on the market but sent them straight off for grading.  When all these hit the market, it may be more difficult to sell ungraded examples - hence maybe the reason the flippers are selling and why the prices have fallen from their initial dizzying heights.

[Stu]

2 minutes ago, TeaTime said:

The flipping of these coins has produced an unnatural and inflated market. The days of studying the coin and making a reasoned decision to purchase at your leisure have gone. Now, if you don't buy immediately from the source then you have no choice but to purchase on the secondary market or go without.

Historically popular coins were a slow-burn that increased in value over time. Part of the process was the diminishing numbers of available coins, something that is rarely going to happen with modern proofs. The expectation that a brand new coin should immediately be worth 2 or 3 times it's purchase price is unrealistic - driven by speculators and, to some extent, grading companies.  

Pretty much everyone who collects / buys RM coins does so in the expectation of future profits. The reality is that the majority of coins end up worth a lot less than the original sale price. Who can blame flippers for cashing in on the hype - striking whilst the iron is hot is not a bad thing in itself. But it does leave a sour taste in my mouth.

The real question is - why do people fall for the hype over and over again ?

 

Take your point to certain extent however I do think that these coins will do well long term also. They are remakes of classics and as long as the mint doesn’t kick the arid out of it (far from guaranteed) or stopping permitting editions from “insert non descriptive island here) they should do well.

I think they will be onto a winner with the other classic red trike series starting with Henry VII Sovereign. 
 

I am not so sure with the other jubilee coins, steered clear other than the sovs. 

[Stu]

3 minutes ago, Zhorro said:

Don't forget about all the coins that are still at the graders.  I have a feeling that quite a number of dealers did not put their initial allocations on the market but sent them straight off for grading.  When all these hit the market, it may be more difficult to sell ungraded examples - hence maybe the reason the flippers are selling and why the prices have fallen from their initial dizzying heights.

Independent retailers should be made to evidence they have sold on at a reasonable price on the release date IMHO

[Stu]

3 minutes ago, Stu said:

Take your point to certain extent however I do think that these coins will do well long term also. They are remakes of classics and as long as the mint doesn’t kick the arse out of it (far from guaranteed) and stops permitting editions from “insert non descriptive island here” they should do well.

I think they will be onto a winner with the other classic restrike series starting with Henry VII Sovereign also, I will be in if possible.  
 

I am not so sure with the other jubilee coins, steered clear other than the sovs. 
 

I like your synopsis of the current situation and how it has developed. I take it you have been collecting for some time? The world moves too fast at times . 

 

[NewCoins]

36 minutes ago, TeaTime said:

The flipping of these coins has produced an unnatural and inflated market. The days of studying the coin and making a reasoned decision to purchase at your leisure have gone. Now, if you don't buy immediately from the source then you have no choice but to purchase on the secondary market or go without.

Historically popular coins were a slow-burn that increased in value over time. Part of the process was the diminishing numbers of available coins, something that is rarely going to happen with modern proofs. The expectation that a brand new coin should immediately be worth 2 or 3 times it's purchase price is unrealistic - driven by speculators and, to some extent, grading companies.  

Pretty much everyone who collects / buys RM coins does so in the expectation of future profits. The reality is that the majority of coins end up worth a lot less than the original sale price. Who can blame flippers for cashing in on the hype - striking whilst the iron is hot is not a bad thing in itself. But it does leave a sour taste in my mouth.

The real question is - why do people fall for the hype over and over again ?

 

Do you think its ALL hype ?

Some of the stuff that the RM pumps out is of little interest to me. And even if they sell out quickly, I wouldn't think they will hold even retail value to some extent.

There are other series the mint produces which are far better. I really liked the queens beasts completer for example. Just had a look on ebay they seem to be holding well above retail even after the hype has ended.

I think even the three graces is doing well compared to most, even after the hype has ended.

The three graces went crazy after release, and seems to have settled to perhaps its level.

I do like to think there is an element of investment in collecting coins, I certainly wouldn't like to think its all money lost.

Edited January 15, 2022 by NewCoins

[Jeffers46]

10 hours ago, apachebleu said:

Tough one isn't it? Flippers push the prices up which is great if you have the coin but they stop a lot of real collectors getting the coin initially.

 I do agree with you in a lot of ways but I would say the flipper culture actually hurts long term prices. Una coins don't come up for sale often because they were bought by collectors to hold which has made them valuable, I think that at least in the short term flippers have hurt the market for this coin by flooding the market. I think the 2022 soverign proofs suffered from the same problem, it had everything needed to succeed but realistically price wise it has floundered in spit of a quick sell out.

 On the plus side the *******s doing this probably bought a bunch of jubilee coins and will get burned on them

If that is the case and you are a collector, it doesn’t matter. Why? You are holding the coin so eventually the flippers will be out of the way and the true value will be realised by the free market.

I’m a bit Fed-up of reading snarky, snidey comments. Life is too short! 

[Stu]

5 minutes ago, Jeffers46 said:

If that is the case and you are a collector, it doesn’t matter. Why? You are holding the coin so eventually the flippers will be out of the way and the true value will be realised by the free market.

I’m a bit Fed-up of reading snarky, snidey comments. Life is too short! 

Didn’t see any snarky comments in the post you copied, just someone’s synopsis of the current situation.

Woops, just reread the last paragraph, retract the above!

Edited January 15, 2022 by Stu

[Jeffers46]

4 minutes ago, Stu said:

Didn’t see any snarky comments in the post you copied, just someone’s synopsis of the current situation.

Yes I was not referring to them, more of a general observation of comments directed towards so-called ‘flippers’.

I also could not see one word, which was starred out… ****

Edited January 15, 2022 by Jeffers46
Reviewed comment I was referring to.

[SilverMike]

Everyone is a flipper imo, just different strokes for different folks. unless you’re getting buried with them, but even then you are just keeping them for the flippers of the future.

Id be interested to hear from those that adamantly deem themselves not flippers as to what is an acceptable period of time to hold a coin to say you are a genuine collector and at the point is there an acceptable % uplift over what you paid on release that you deem not profiteering? Or do you need to sell at what you paid (irrespective of time and markets) to not be a flipper? if the market has crashed and you sell for what you paid is that ok?

i get it, ive been annoyed when ive missed releases but i dont hold it personally against those selling, yes some regret and undoubtedly envy but i just accept it, but everyone is different