2022 Sovereign design revealed?

[FlorinCollector]

@Leonmarsh My advice would be buy as many as you can afford at this price point. Buying them at roughly £650ish will be easy profit in a couple of years. 
 

There are a lot of new people to the market who don’t understand much about the coin market and when they don’t see engraver series returns panic. 
 

I don’t get why anyone is wasting their time flipping for 65 quid profit or close to that. 

[Cornishfarmer]

@ChardsCoinandBullionDealer @LawrenceChard I see that the price for the 5 coin set has now gone up on your site.      Have you sold any at this price or is that what it will be when/if they come available again?

Edited November 29, 2021 by Cornishfarmer

[GoldDiggerDave]

@FlorinCollector a Yodel delivery driver gets paid £0.65 per delivery  getting £65 for moving a box is utter genius compared to driving around all day delivering 100 parcels.  

 

[FlorinCollector]

@GoldDiggerDave True. To be clearer I mean if they were to hold this for longer they would have more profit. I get christmas is coming up but. 

[richatthecroft]

 

1 hour ago, Leonmarsh said:

There not shifting though at 685 

Should be flying out, not shifting on here either for small mark ups 

 

 

1 hour ago, Leonmarsh said:

Alot of people flipping indicates to me that there is not much confidence in a long term. Hold, if its going to the moon why would you flip for small profit? 

I think @TheShinyStuff has covered the answer to this question:

 

1 hour ago, TheShinyStuff said:

I'd think that most people on here that want one already have one, or at least have been told that it is coming in my case. 

 

 

I think Leon, you are well aware of the price premiums achieved of the previous 5 Special Reverse Modern Sovereigns- a reminder of them- 1989, 2002, 2005, 2012 & 2017- I've lost touch with exact current prices achieved but from memory of the last sales I have seen here, auctions & retail dealer sales, they go as follows- (lowest price Raw examples, highest graded 70):

1989:  £1100- £2k

2002: £600- £750

2005: £600- £750

2012: £950-  £1200. (remarkably (and likely an outlier) one achieved £2300 yesterday at the CC Auction it was PCGS PR 70 DCAM First Strike) 

2017: £895- £1150

 

Is there any evidence to say that the 2022 Sovereign won't be as good a long term hold?  Or that people don't have confidence in holding them?  It was the fastest sell out of any year date proof Special Reverse Sovereign and the mintage is on a par (or less) than any of the previous Special Reverses- and 98 Pages of chat in this very thread tells quite a story.  

 

Here's some more evidence that the 2022 will perhaps, do ok long term:

 

I did this exercise on the 20/11/2021 and repeated it just now.

Using the search term '2022 Sovereign' on eBay on Monday 29/11/2021:

 

The amount of 2022 Sovereigns for sale (all denominations and sets) is currently surprisingly few, given the amount of coins/ sets issued- there's currently only 41 sales posts using the search term described above.

 

In terms of sales- using the same search terms, here's the action so far- surprisingly few sales at 55.  Figures not quite accurate as some sales include 'best offer accepted':

 

5 Coin set- 5 Sales ranging between £5795 through £6995- Average sale price- £6348

4 Coin Set- 2 Sales ranging between £3250 through £3750- Average sale price- £3500

3 Coin set- 7 Sales ranging between £1195 through £1650- Average sale price- £1391

Sovereign- 27 Sales ranging between £699 through £885- Average sale price- £762

Half Sovereign-  13 Sales ranging between £375 through £486- Average sale price- £416

Sovereign/ Half Sovereign combo- 1 Sale at £1300

 

The Opportunity takers still don't appear to be out force.

Edited November 29, 2021 by richatthecroft

[GoldDiggerDave]

5 minutes ago, FlorinCollector said:

@GoldDiggerDave True. To be clearer I mean if they were to hold this for longer they would have more profit. I get christmas is coming up but. 

It's all good clean fun,  I sold some very cheap but holding onto the bigger sets, the small profits pay for the grading and the weekly Wetherspoons bill. 👍

[Stu]

After further examination I have decided to return my 5 coin set. Pitting on the 5 and two marks on the double. A lot of scratches on the capsules themselves but could have lived / changed that. 😔

How do returns work, will RM send a DHL courier or is it up to customer to arrange. I am out in sticks and think only option could be RM special delivery. I see their insurance is only up to £2500 which is about half the value,  any suggestions folks? (DHL used a partner for last leg of journey to us, I don’t think they would  collect?)

[SilverJacks]

I think the 2022's are doing very well considering how many flippers there are these days. I assume its due to The Great Engravers, and The Queen's Beasts that have really caught the attention of non coin-enthusiasts trying to flip. The bandwagon is looking rather crowded.

[richatthecroft]

1 minute ago, SilverJacks said:

I think the 2022's are doing very well considering how many flippers there are these days. I assume its due to The Great Engravers, and The Queen's Beasts that have really caught the attention of non coin-enthusiasts trying to flip. The bandwagon is looking rather crowded.

Using the search term '2022 Sovereign' on eBay on Monday 29/11/2021:

 

The amount of 2022 Sovereigns for sale (all denominations and sets) is currently surprisingly few, given the amount of coins/ sets issued- there's currently only 41 sales posts using the search term described above.

 

In terms of sales- using the same search terms, here's the action so far- surprisingly few sales at 55.  Figures not quite accurate as some sales include 'best offer accepted':

[SilverJacks]

2 minutes ago, Stu said:

After further examination I have decided to return my 5 coin set. Pitting on the 5 and two marks on the double. A lot of scratches on the capsules themselves but could have lived / changed that. 😔

How do returns work, will RM send a DHL courier or is it up to customer to arrange. I am out in sticks and think only option could be RM special delivery. I see their insurance is only up to £2500 which is about half the value,  any suggestions folks? (DHL used a partner for last leg of journey to us, I don’t think they would  collect?)

As I understand it, you're fully covered from the moment you get a receipt from the post office, although RM do cover return costs if you choose to pay for SD. Obviously best to check with RM first

[SilverJacks]

3 minutes ago, richatthecroft said:

Using the search term '2022 Sovereign' on eBay on Monday 29/11/2021:

 

The amount of 2022 Sovereigns for sale (all denominations and sets) is currently surprisingly few, given the amount of coins/ sets issued- there's currently only 41 sales posts using the search term described above.

 

In terms of sales- using the same search terms, here's the action so far- surprisingly few sales at 55.  Figures not quite accurate as some sales include 'best offer accepted':

Interesting point. I wouldn't call that conclusively proving its not more targeted by flippers these days but I accept I could be wrong of course.

[Mtaybar]

My 3 coin set has arrived and came in perfect condition. From what I can see with just the phone zoom in less than great light, all coins look to be in great condition. Once I get my magnifier back I'll go over them properly but so far so good. More than happy with them 👍😁👍

[richatthecroft]

1 minute ago, SilverJacks said:

Interesting point. I wouldn't call that conclusively proving its not more targeted by flippers these days but I accept I could be wrong of course.

I agree, nothing conclusive in what I have cited- but eBay is by far the ‘go to’ marketplace to flip coins- and the amount of 2022 Sovereigns flipped since release is very few.

I acknowledge that the ‘flipping’ phenomenon has existed for ever- but my observation is that the flipping phenomenon came to the forefront and has escalated from the release of the 2018 Snowman 50p issue- there were hundreds for sale, if not thousands! Initially making inordinate money.  And the phenomenon escalated from there- the 50 years of the 50p was another, then the Gruffalo, and so it went on through to the Brexit coins, Music Legends, Bonds etc. etc. until we hit the hiatus of The Three Graces!

The enduring Sovereign, issued year in and year out doesn’t appear to have the short term flipping appeal- it’s a steadier hold and longer term play. 

[dirt94]

I live in the USA and my proof Sovereign just arrived today. I also ordered the 3 coin set which has yet to arrive. I did not receive a shipping notification for either so did not know where along the journey they were.

[SilverJacks]

19 minutes ago, richatthecroft said:

I agree, nothing conclusive in what I have cited- but eBay is by far the ‘go to’ marketplace to flip coins- and the amount of 2022 Sovereigns flipped since release is very few.

I acknowledge that the ‘flipping’ phenomenon has existed for ever- but my observation is that the flipping phenomenon came to the forefront and has escalated from the release of the 2018 Snowman 50p issue- there were hundreds for sale, if not thousands! Initially making inordinate money.  And the phenomenon escalated from there- the 50 years of the 50p was another, then the Gruffalo, and so it went on through to the Brexit coins, Music Legends, Bonds etc. etc. until we hit the hiatus of The Three Graces!

The enduring Sovereign, issued year in and year out doesn’t appear to have the short term flipping appeal- it’s a steadier hold and longer term play. 

Appreciate you sharing your experience @richatthecroft. In an ideal world, It would be nice to compare the ebay listings/sales from the first few weeks of the 2017 release to what we have now. Although there's so many variables, not least the upcoming gothic crown release potentially skewing the picture.

[James32]

38 minutes ago, Mtaybar said:

My 3 coin set has arrived and came in perfect condition. From what I can see with just the phone zoom in less than great light, all coins look to be in great condition. Once I get my magnifier back I'll go over them properly but so far so good. More than happy with them 👍😁👍

Happy days, it's good that it's not all bad.

[Mtaybar]

I have other photos but I realise this isn't the place to post. Just thought it would be nice for a few pics to change it up a little bit

[Mtaybar]

I'll get some better ones in real light and under magnification tomorrow hopefully when I give them a proper look over and post them in the proper place. 

[James32]

Beautiful 

[AndrewSL76]

1 hour ago, richatthecroft said:

I agree, nothing conclusive in what I have cited- but eBay is by far the ‘go to’ marketplace to flip coins- and the amount of 2022 Sovereigns flipped since release is very few.

I acknowledge that the ‘flipping’ phenomenon has existed for ever- but my observation is that the flipping phenomenon came to the forefront and has escalated from the release of the 2018 Snowman 50p issue- there were hundreds for sale, if not thousands! Initially making inordinate money.  And the phenomenon escalated from there- the 50 years of the 50p was another, then the Gruffalo, and so it went on through to the Brexit coins, Music Legends, Bonds etc. etc. until we hit the hiatus of The Three Graces!

The enduring Sovereign, issued year in and year out doesn’t appear to have the short term flipping appeal- it’s a steadier hold and longer term play. 

You write really well. I always enjoy reading and learning from your posts, but this one was especially interesting. Totally agree with everything too, which helps!!

[richatthecroft]

1 hour ago, SilverJacks said:

Appreciate you sharing your experience @richatthecroft. In an ideal world, It would be nice to compare the ebay listings/sales from the first few weeks of the 2017 release to what we have now. Although there's so many variables, not least the upcoming gothic crown release potentially skewing the picture.

 

I'm sure someone might be able to dredge up some information of how the 2017 Pistrucci issues performed post release on eBay.

My observations of them are in keeping with this threat in late 2017:

 

 

There was a 'drop' in price in late 2017- reset back to release price for the Individual issues of the Quarter were offered at around £150 and the Half's £250- £275 sold as raw coins.  

The 2017 Sovereign remained over and above release price by a minimum of 10% and more prevalent at 20% over the release price raw well into 2018 but have steadily increased since spring 2020 and have taken off since the turn of 2021. 

The Piedfort (I believe the 2017 was the first Piedfort issue) was not too well received and the prices were dormant over release price until spring 2020- 2021 have seen these rapidly rise in price.  

I do know that I bought a 5 Pound 2017 Bu in March 2020 for £10 less than release price! and in keeping with the above, have risen sharply since. 

The 2017 3 coin (Sov through to Quarter) set was available  on the secondary market between £900 and £1k up until last spring but the 3 coin (2 Sovereign to Half) set and the 5 Coin set have always kept good premiums until the spring of 2020 and then came the steady re-rate and this year, there's being the take off to todays prices.

I stand corrected, but the issue prices for the 2017's were as follows:

Quarter: £150

Half: £250

Sovereign: £480

Piedfort: £800 ish

SOTD: £500 ish

5 Sovereign Bu: £1785

3 Coin Set- Sov to Quarter: £750

3 Coin Set- 2 Sov- Half:  £1450 (thanks @westminstrel)

5 Coin set: £3295

There were no 4 coin (2 Sov to Quarter) Sets issued. 

https://agaunews.com/2017-sovereign-recreates-200yr-old-pistrucci-original/  (thanks @westminstrel for the link from a previous thread).

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by richatthecroft

[westminstrel]

@richatthecroft- The issue price of the 2017 Premium 3-coin proof set (Double Sovereign, Sovereign, and Half-sovereign) was £1,450.

[westminstrel]

The prices seem so cheap in retrospect - wish I had more funds then. 😭

[richatthecroft]

2 hours ago, SilverJacks said:

Although there's so many variables, not least the upcoming gothic crown release potentially skewing the picture.

I'm not sure the upcoming release of the Gothic Crown is skewing the picture- at least not in a negative way- if anything, its remarkable that the RM sold out the 2022 issue in just a few days despite the impending hot release.  Again testament to the allure of the Sovereign.  

I do think the Gothic release was never going to dent sales of the Sovereign too much, lets face it- there were less than 400 Gold Three Graces/ Una's- therefore, most people can only target the Silver as a realistic option due to the limited mintage of the Gold.   Owning the Silver Gothic isn't (too) prohibitive in terms of price point.   

 

I think what's interesting about the 2017 release in comparison to the 2022 issue was the price of Gold at the time of their respective issues.

For example:

The 2017 Sovereign issue was a 96% premium over Gold Price- (Gold Price was around the £1040/ oz) 

The 2022 Sovereign issue was only an 80% premium over Gold- (Gold price was £1384/oz)

I'm pretty sure that investing in a 2017 was a much more difficult ask, as compared to this years issue- I would say that the premiums asked for the 2017 Pistrucci Sovereign slowed down the sales somewhat. 

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by richatthecroft
Edited the Gold Price- thanks @roy

[richatthecroft]

2 minutes ago, westminstrel said:

The prices seem so cheap in retrospect - wish I had more funds then. 😭

 

Agreed.  But the premiums over Gold were much higher.

Edited November 30, 2021 by richatthecroft