2022 Sovereign design revealed?

[Mtaybar]

25 minutes ago, BiigT said:

Ok, so I spoke too soon with my coins. I ordered a 3 coin set direct from RM and pre-ordered a single Sov from elsewhere. I was checking the quarter sov today and saw a slight glint that caused me to look further. What I found were 3 marks that clearly show some kind of damage to that side of the coin.  

Apologies for the quality, but it's never easy to get the best photos under magnification. I was looking through a 30x magnifier (and I know what people will say about the RM rules) but it was the glint in the light that brought my attention to it so my argument is that it is 'visible' to the naked eye. 

So I then decided to recheck my other coins and found a further dink on my Sovereign from the 3 coin set

you can just about see it in the first photo on the desk and again, my point is that I could see it with the naked eye before I magnified it. So I've sent an email off to Anne Jessopp using the email shared by @BackyardBullion and hope to hear back from her soon. Out of interest, what do people think? Am I making a big deal over nothing?

Whilst I'm here I might as well mention the small dots on the single sov that I received. I can only see them under magnification so they may not be so much of an issue, but the key question is whether anyone thinks they will affect the grading as this was something I was planning to do. I don't have a 5 x magnification but will buy one to see what I can see with that, but just any general comments will help. Here's the photos

 

 

I have a couple of specks on mine that you can only see under magnification and I'm of the understanding that a few small stray particles don't really affect the value of an ungraded coin. If you're looking to grade then I hear there is a conservation service you can have carried out to take any particles off the coin before it's graded. The big no no is scratches and dinks that will affect the coin. I've never had anything graded so I'm not speaking from experience. 

As for the the glint attracting to an issue, I would agree that if you can see the glint without a 5x then it would fall short of their standard. Whether it has an impact on the value as an ungraded coin I wouldn't know but I wouldn't grade it. I'd keep it as is and it'll probably hold its value as a proof in original condition. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Mtaybar
Added.

[BiigT]

4 minutes ago, Mtaybar said:

I have a couple of specks on mine that you can only see under magnification and I'm of the understanding that a few small stray particles don't really affect the value of an ungraded coin. If you're looking to grade then I hear there is a conservation service you can have carried out to take any particles off the coin before it's graded. The big no no is scratches and dinks that will affect the coin. I've never had anything graded so I'm not speaking from experience. 

Thanks for the reply - that all makes sense. I suppose I'm kind of hoping that someone with grading experience will confirm the situation as I'm keen to get a PF70 (isn't everyone :))

[paulmerton]

29 minutes ago, BiigT said:

Are those definitely damage? The middle one at least (possibly the other two?) are out of focus compared with the part of the coin it sits on which makes me think it is just a tiny spec of dust/lint on the coin. I guess it would be easier to tell with a loupe and your own eyeballs  

[Mtaybar]

3 minutes ago, BiigT said:

Thanks for the reply - that all makes sense. I suppose I'm kind of hoping that someone with grading experience will confirm the situation as I'm keen to get a PF70 (isn't everyone :))

If you're going to grade it then yeah, the coveted PF70 is the ultimate goal. 

[BiigT]

3 minutes ago, paulmerton said:

Are those definitely damage? The middle one at least (possibly the other two?) are out of focus compared with the part of the coin it sits on which makes me think it is just a tiny spec of dust/lint on the coin. I guess it would be easier to tell with a loupe and your own eyeballs  

It's a nightmare trying to get the right angle, but they are definitely some kind of sequenced scratches. they are so close to each other it looks like they've been caused by the same thing

[sovereignsteve]

1 hour ago, GoldStatue said:

I guess the mint has run out of coins to deal with the returns now and have stopped minting new ones, so I'd expect that to be the response everyone will get from now on.

I doubt that as there are still many coins not dispatched to customers.

Edit. I have just seen an earlier post about the Mint saying they aren't doing any more. That is very disappointing and I hope they reconsider.

Edited December 2, 2021 by sovereignsteve

[Foster88]

5 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

I doubt that as there are still many coins not dispatched to customers.

Edit. I have just seen an earlier post about the Mint saying they aren't doing any more. That is very disappointing and I hope they reconsider.

The response I’ve had from them was a clear, no, return for refund or basically keep it. 😕 I said that understand that they are not available to order and they are out of stock but I would want a replacement then I was told it isn’t possible as there aren’t any. So those who are still waiting for their original orders, god knows what they’re supposed to do if they want to return for an exchange.

I’m going to send a polite email to Anne Jessop as Backyard Bullion suggested many posts ago.

[Paul]

2 minutes ago, Foster88 said:

I’m going to send a polite email to Anne Jessop as Backyard Bullion suggested many posts ago.

Bet the forum doesn't get a Christmas card from her this year 😆

[paulmerton]

At least they do actually let people send them back for a refund without any quibbles, even if that isn't always the most desirable outcome.

They are clearly falling short of their own description of the coins in some cases:

Proof coins are the highest quality commemorative coins. Their sharpness, detail and finish are unrivalled, making them perfect for collectors looking for highest levels of craftsmanship and detail.

The dies used to strike Proof coins are hand-finished to ensure that all imperfections are removed. Blanks are fed into the coin press by hand before being struck up to six times, at a lower speed and with less pressure than other finishes, to preserve the finer details of the design.

[Roy]

4 minutes ago, paulmerton said:

The dies used to strike Proof coins are hand-finished to ensure that all imperfections are removed. Blanks are fed into the coin press by hand before being struck up to six times, at a lower speed and with less pressure than other finishes, to preserve the finer details of the design.

Human error, it's not our fault mister!

Do they hand finish silver proofs too? 😉

Our bully knows all about hand-finishing 😂

[Bullionaire]

On 01/12/2021 at 16:14, BackyardBullion said:

Royal Mint Loose Capsules Update

The Royal Mint have got back in touch regarding the loose capsule situation.

Let's hope that things improve now they are aware and have taken action.

I just wanted to update you on the actions that we are taking to address the issues you have highlighted below.

A full investigation has taken place and we have identified the root cause relating to the capsule issue, sadly it appears the packaging has caused this problem during delivery.  Our team are now solving the issue to ensure it does not happen again.  We have also reviewed your feedback regarding the QC sticker and further improvements have been identified to mitigate this in future.

 I understand how disappointing this situation has been, The Platinum Jubilee is a once in a lifetime occasion and we want to ensure you receive a product of the highest craftsmanship to mark the historic occasion.

I emailed them today to ask if there was any update on when I'd be getting my coin (the first delivery of the coin, not a replacement) and when they would be taking payment for it. I got a reply email stating that "Sadly on this occasion it appears the packaging has caused an issue during delivery...". They're apologising for the packaging before I've even got it  

Either a copy and paste job or they're delaying sending out new coins to rectify this packaging issue first...

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Bullionaire

[SilverJacks]

2 hours ago, BiigT said:

It's a nightmare trying to get the right angle, but they are definitely some kind of sequenced scratches. they are so close to each other it looks like they've been caused by the same thing

Hi Biig T. Like anyone's concerns, I hope it works out.

I can say from what experience I do have, I've been convinced that I'm looking at scratches in the past, baffled by where they've come from as they weren't noticed before. Sent them for grading and conservation out of curiosity, and they have come back 70 with no sign of the scratch and no charge for conservation. Leaving me with the only logical conclusion that it was dust/debris that gave the appearance of a scratch and simply blown away, either intentionally by grader or just by chance.

With tiny dots of missing frosting, they're quite common and as long as they aren't caused by impact, or reduce (naked) eye appeal , will be disregarded by graders. That is my understanding anyway. I understand if you're looking for the views of a veteran member that has vast experience, but that's what I can say from my own experience.

[Alz111]

Has anyone sent there coins for grading yet ? 

[matt1r]

I sent a couple of half’s straight away 🤞

[FlorinCollector]

Yep think my full 2 sovs should be in america soon if not already. 

[Mtaybar]

34 minutes ago, FlorinCollector said:

Yep think my full 2 sovs should be in america soon if not already. 

Just out of curiosity......Is there no place in the UK that can grade?

[James32]

2 minutes ago, Mtaybar said:

Just out of curiosity......Is there no place in the UK that can grade?

Always wondered that myself?

[Alz111]

22 minutes ago, Mtaybar said:

Just out of curiosity......Is there no place in the UK that can grade?

No there isn’t !

ngc office is in London where they send the coins to USA for grading 

[Mtaybar]

9 minutes ago, Alz111 said:

No there isn’t !

ngc office is in London where they send the coins to USA for grading 

Hmm 🤔 strange! Business opportunity for someone, like a franchise maybe? Seems a bit odd they can only be graded in the US. 

[Alz111]

3 minutes ago, Mtaybar said:

Hmm 🤔 strange! Business opportunity for someone, like a franchise maybe? Seems a bit odd they can only be graded in the US. 

True and it takes approximately 2 months as I sent some coins about 9 weeks ago and they’ve just sent them back to London a few days ago 

[apachebleu]

9 hours ago, James32 said:

That's unfortunate and unexpected tbh.

When I sign Into my account now I've 3 open orders for the full sov ( only returned one ) but hopefully it's a sign they have received my return and intend on replacing??

Have to guess all this unfortunately because not only do they not acknowledge they have received returns they stop responding to emails after 3 lol

 

 I returned my set last Monday and I have 3 in my orders dated the 29th...fingers crossed I'm getting my return and its in good condition. 

 I was worried that I'd just get a refund which would have been really crappy

[Foster88]

12 hours ago, SilverJacks said:

@GoldDiggerDave, You're quite well versed in RM purchases, how often does a refusal to replace an item happen?

 

@Foster88 How bad was the issue of complaint? Would you expect it to fall below 69?

 

 

Well my problem with my 2022 proof sovereign started as the postman handed it to be.

Something was loose in the box and it was the coin.

Despite my first post after my initial shock it’s clear that the capsules are a real issue, RM have really dropped the ball unforunatley on a historic release. It could have been solved with a screw capsule or rather my ‘complaint’ could have been solved. When you think it’s a case of a few ridges in two pieces of plastic.

After contacting RM and being told that a replacement isn’t possible as there aren’t any, I think I’ll bite the bullet and send it for grading. I’m not entirely happy doing this as we pay a premium for these coins, we deserve a premium product.

I was planning to grade my half sovereign that is, to my eye, under 10x loupe, perfect. I didn’t want to grade my full sovereign but maybe with conservation it might get a 70 afterall.

I just feel feel sorry for those who haven’t received theirs that if they might want to exchange for a replacement.

As I was told, bluntly, there aren’t any.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Foster88

[GoldDiggerDave]

4 hours ago, Foster88 said:

Well my problem with my 2022 proof sovereign started as the postman handed it to be.

Something was loose in the box and it was the coin.

Despite my first post after my initial shock it’s clear that the capsules are a real issue, RM have really dropped the ball unforunatley on a historic release. It could have been solved with a screw capsule or rather my ‘complaint’ could have been solved. When you think it’s a case of a few ridges in two pieces of plastic.

After contacting RM and being told that a replacement isn’t possible as there aren’t any, I think I’ll bite the bullet and send it for grading. I’m not entirely happy doing this as we pay a premium for these coins, we deserve a premium product.

I was planning to grade my half sovereign that is, to my eye, under 10x loupe, perfect. I didn’t want to grade my full sovereign but maybe with conservation it might get a 70 afterall.

I just feel feel sorry for those who haven’t received theirs that if they might want to exchange for a replacement.

As I was told, bluntly, there aren’t any.

@SilverJacks  For me I have been plagued with issues on matt SOTD sovereigns to the point I've given up with them, sent more back than I've kept.  Had some totally mullered coins out of capsules which is common issue across the board and it's such an easy problem fix.  One that still P me off the most is my GP 50p 2019 with the re issued Kew Gardens.  The set toned very badly almost in front of my eyes over 2-3 months, send it back for some kind of conservation, it came back almost the same, spoke with them all very nicely explaining I did not want a refund, they said send it back to see what they could do then without warning they just refunded me.  It's not impossible to re mint a replacement coin or 5 in this case but we all know why they won't is just simpler and more cost effective to give a "whinging" customer a re fund and move on to the next launch.   

The 5 coin set looked the business next to the original 2009 set 

Edited December 3, 2021 by GoldDiggerDave

[BiigT]

12 hours ago, SilverJacks said:

Hi Biig T. Like anyone's concerns, I hope it works out.

I can say from what experience I do have, I've been convinced that I'm looking at scratches in the past, baffled by where they've come from as they weren't noticed before. Sent them for grading and conservation out of curiosity, and they have come back 70 with no sign of the scratch and no charge for conservation. Leaving me with the only logical conclusion that it was dust/debris that gave the appearance of a scratch and simply blown away, either intentionally by grader or just by chance.

With tiny dots of missing frosting, they're quite common and as long as they aren't caused by impact, or reduce (naked) eye appeal , will be disregarded by graders. That is my understanding anyway. I understand if you're looking for the views of a veteran member that has vast experience, but that's what I can say from my own experience.

I appreciate you taking the time to reply. I think I'll be keeping the single sov for the reasons mentioned about the tiny dots, but the quarter sov has ruined it for me in respect of the 3 Coin set. I spent quite a while looking at the area and my reason for being so convinced that they are scratches is because you can see the damage to the coin surface when you move the coin around against natural light. Maybe a video would help, but it wouldn't change the situation in that I'm now waiting to hear back from the RM as to the options available. 

I've also ordered a 5x loupe so that I can have a look through the same magnication as if it were being graded. 

[Mtaybar]

My second 3 coin set arrived today. I've had a full look over and not a speck or blemish to be seen. Completely clean and sharp set. Thanks @LawrenceChard. I assume you or your team gave it a once over as there was extra bubble wrap in the box to hold down the capsules that wasn't present in the one sent by the royal mint. I reckon if I was inclined to have these graded they would hit a 70. I say that with no experience but I really think they would 🤣🤣🤣🤣.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Mtaybar