2022 Sovereign design revealed?

[R33f]

2 hours ago, James32 said:

Here's what I've learned. 

Buy because you love the design, nothing else.

In the hope you get a good coin, be happy with that.

If an opportunity arises that you can make a few pound the next day or a year later,great.

But go into it viewing it like this, I really like the design and I'm happy for it to only be worth melt "worst case scenario "

I do expect them to do well, but from experience I also expect whatever idea you have to cover yourself, thousands of others have the same idea. Market gets diluted and value drops, happened with every release so far and this will be no different. 

Buy proofs because you want them is the message I'm trying to get across. Hold for 5 years and you should do well.

Good advice and this will be my mindset attempting to get my annual half on Tuesday. 

[JamesH]

I’ll be jumping in the queue but just for a solitary sovereign. Chance to have the first with a new monarch, with the potential leaked design (which if accurate, I love) is a rare event and one I’d like to be a part of. Plus long term I think the sovereign pair (QEII 22 and KCIII 22) will make a great set

[Chrisplym]

If the design is correct I agree with others that it is much better than the Platinum Jubilee one. I wasn’t over keen on that design but love this one.

[Piperscoins]

The £5BU only gets struck twice not 10 times as the proof does.  There is a short film on the RM site about it. 

I like the BU coins but imo they are not worth the same as the proof and i do not think the £5BU is a good investment.  If you are buying because you like it then good but you may lose money on the BU coin. 

[Solachesis]

54 minutes ago, goldhunter said:

 Be kind to flippers.

After all everthing we buy is flipped.

Coin dealers flip, Tesco flips etc

As someone who spent a year trying to get a ps5, hell no 😂

[GoodAsGold]

20 hours ago, BiigT said:

Appreciate that, thanks. Can I get any views on buying the 5 Sov BU piece in terms of it appreciating in the future. I normally stick to proofs, but the low mintage has tempted me. I'm just trying to sense check my thinking from more seasoned buyers. 

I didn’t start collecting gold coins until about a year after the launch of the 2017 special year design sovs. The quintuple DPL reverse/BU obverse originally retailed for around £1875 as far as I know and I picked one up from a dealer for not a great deal more in 2018. I’ve recently seen 2 or 3 dealers asking for well over £3K for MS70 graded ones. Moral of the story is if you have a special year design of any denomination just put it in your safe for several years and watch the prices climb on the secondary market.

[BiigT]

2 hours ago, Paul said:

I would try to get the biggest you can afford and sit on it. 

Try for a five or a four set. Split, grade. Hope for 70s.  Keep the biggest and sell off the smaller to pay off your costs. Fives will always do well in the long term for steady  appreciation

I'd ideally like the 5 set, but chances are slim. I can pre order the 5 piece BU which is why it's my main point of discussion at the moment. I'll try for the 5 piece set on the day, but I can pre order this and not worry. Its just a case of do I want it or not

[GoodAsGold]

10 hours ago, SiCole said:

Only problem with the 5 BU sovereign is I think you will get it cheaper later in the year. A 2022 sold on the coinery last month for £1.95k plus 16% fees. Lovely coins though

I think potential buyers of the coin were put off by the large scratch on the rim near the word “Dieu” on the reverse and plenty of spots on the obverse. The price obtained merely reflects the condition of the ungraded coin.

https://auctions.thecoinery.co.uk/catalogue/lot/bc26b8bfff4404766cac52cdeb78f30d/81b29ab6fa187a02a829c1899b734425/auction-16-a-general-sale-of-numismatic-items-lot-58/

[GoodAsGold]

13 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

I'm the other way on this; I can't stand the RM modern matte finished coins. I much prefered the BU finish of the 2017 £5 and SOTD sov.

 

11 hours ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

Mate have you had a 2022 £5 BU in hand?   The finish when they get it right is stunning, the newer mattes have almost a pearlescent finish.  
 

don’t get me wrong I’ve had more issues with matte sovereigns than almost anything else. 

 

I agree with you both. My ungraded 2017 quintuple DPL is stunning and comparable to the proof on the reverse in my opinion. I’ve got a PF70 proof to compare it with, and it would be unjust if the DPL didn’t achieve MS70.

But having also poo poo’ed matte finishes in the past I bought the (now first) 2022 quintuple BU last Saturday, and, although not the proof version, it’s still a stunner. Ironically my coin (as per the NGC number) is still advertised for sale on the website yet they also increased the price by almost 10% after it was bought and paid for. You can imagine how concerned I was until the coin was safely in my hands. 

https://www.sovr.co.uk/products/elizabeth-ii-bu-matt-2022-five-pounds-ms70-fr-gi26921

[SiCole]

1 hour ago, GoodAsGold said:

I think potential buyers of the coin were put off by the large scratch on the rim near the word “Dieu” on the reverse and plenty of spots on the obverse. The price obtained merely reflects the condition of the ungraded coin.

https://auctions.thecoinery.co.uk/catalogue/lot/bc26b8bfff4404766cac52cdeb78f30d/81b29ab6fa187a02a829c1899b734425/auction-16-a-general-sale-of-numismatic-items-lot-58/

Thank you i had missed that bit as i saw it after the event. Like i say they're beautiful coins and if that design is correct it will look even better that size.

[GoodAsGold]

2 minutes ago, SiCole said:

Thank you i had missed that bit as i saw it after the event. Like i say they're beautiful coins and if that design is correct it will look even better that size.

I couldn’t agree more, Si. Having just bought the first 2022 BU one it’s good to add another big gold coin to my collection. My previous 2 purchases were about 18 months apart - the 1887 and 1893 proof half sovereigns, both PF64 Ultra Cameo. Big money out of my pocket yet tiny coins in return. 

[sovereignsteve]

It certainly looks a lot better than the matte sovereigns I've seen.

[GoodAsGold]

2 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

It certainly looks a lot better than the matte sovereigns I've seen.

Maybe I was looking at the same ones as you Steve, which is why I won’t write them off anymore. 

[SiCole]

Bring on Tuesday!

 

[Solachesis]

1 minute ago, SiCole said:

Bring on Tuesday!

 

The matte looks amazing, when I had my 2022 normal sov, I thought it looked amazing when it was angled in a way which didn't show the reflective surface, sort of like the matte, but it's so darn reflective normally, and with the colour I didn't like it very much. 

The matte though is gorgeous 

[GoodAsGold]

4 hours ago, Chrisplym said:

If the design is correct I agree with others that it is much better than the Platinum Jubilee one. I wasn’t over keen on that design but love this one.

I wasn’t keen on the first 2022 sov design either and decided not to participate. First impression was it resembled a design on one of the old pound coins. I only revisited it very recently and I changed my mind about the design and took the plunge - albeit with the leftovers, but happy to pay more for a top pop graded coin. 

[apachebleu]

8 hours ago, Paul said:

Also there'll be people buying Tues for a quick flip to raise funds to pay for Christmas.

BBP published expected delivery in January.

Credit/debit cards will come due, so expect an over abundance of an already increased mintage in the worst month of the year for money also add Christmas costs, winter fuel bills 

Perfect storm for this to possibly be a damp squib release 

 Paul that's a very depressing viewpoint but probably a very valid one.

 I actually wouldn't be shocked if this isn't the immediate sell out we anticipate, certainly the rarest lots like the 5 coin set should go quick but I don't see the general public/casual spending this kind of money pre Xmas in a recession.

 It was interesting to see how slowly the surprisingly limited qe2 memorial coins took to shift considering the amount of traffic the mint had that day so I don't see the public spending huge amounts on another 'memorial' coin

[Foster88]

As a mostly Sovereign collector and researcher.

I think the current 2022 sovereign has a very appealing reverse design that will be popular for many years to come. Be that in proof, bullion or the SOTD sovereign.
Why? Well it was designed as a special reverse to commemorate the late Queens 70 years on the throne and none of us knew on the release of the proof sovereign in November 2021 that it would also be the last sovereign of Queen Elizabeth II.

That aside. This new sovereign release has no doubt caught many off guard. It wasn’t expected. In a ‘normal’ year the next release would be the 2023 sovereign but a change of monarch has changed all of that.

This release will no doubt be popular but it will also divide opinion both here on the forum and in the wider numismatist world.

Is it a sovereign for the sake of a sovereign? Possibly so. But it’s also the first sovereign of King Charles III.

Might the only saving grace be for those who truly want to own this release be that the flippers may be put off by the January 2023 delivery date. I think it would help the serious collectors and possibly deter the quick flippers. Maybe not, who knows.

Regardless of wether you love or hate this design it just goes to show the strength and popularity of the sovereign, no matter the monarch on the obverse and long may that continue.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Foster88

[JohnV66]

6 hours ago, apachebleu said:

 Paul that's a very depressing viewpoint but probably a very valid one.

 I actually wouldn't be shocked if this isn't the immediate sell out we anticipate, certainly the rarest lots like the 5 coin set should go quick but I don't see the general public/casual spending this kind of money pre Xmas in a recession.

 It was interesting to see how slowly the surprisingly limited qe2 memorial coins took to shift considering the amount of traffic the mint had that day so I don't see the public spending huge amounts on another 'memorial' coin

 

This seems like wishful thinking. Judging from last year's 2022 release in what was a "lockdown" type of situation, everything disappeared within a couple of hours. I reckon they'll sell out on the day. Bear in mind there are multiple international buyers not just U.K. based collectors. I'll be eagerly waiting in the queue on Tuesday for both the full and half proof.

 

[westminstrel]

30 minutes ago, JohnV66 said:

 

This seems like wishful thinking. Judging from last year's 2022 release in what was a "lockdown" type of situation, everything disappeared within a couple of hours. I reckon they'll sell out on the day. Bear in mind there are multiple international buyers not just U.K. based collectors. I'll be eagerly waiting in the queue on Tuesday for both the full and half proof.

 

Indeed. Even a mintage of 17,000 or thereabouts may seem like a lot to us folks in the collecting community, but we ought to keep in mind that globally, there are 100s of 1000s more collectors who aren’t actively participating in forums etc. and who would want these sorts of iconic coins like the Sovereign. Hence we could  tend to have a skewed view of desirability through tunnel vision.

The market for other commemorative coins / ranges may indeed be smaller, but for certain coins like the Sovereign, they are an order of magnitude.

Also, new collectors get interested in collecting these sorts of iconic coins all the time, and usually it’s “tried and tested” classic coin ranges like the Sovereign that they begin their collections with.

One would be hard pressed to find a coin collector who doesn’t have a Sovereign in their collection.

[Taikonaut]

I'm pretty confident the sovereign with 17,000 edition size won't get sold out for weeks if everyone is restricted to 3 per household and allocation to dealers are very limited. The Harry Potter 15,000 colour proofs are a lot more affordable and its popularity transends numismatic but still not sold out after 3 weeks. The Royal Mint probably has a record of how many buyers of their coins and coin types and constantly adjust its mintage figures to  maximise profits. I would guess there is a hardcore but small community that would buy all, then another bigger group that buys the odd ones. In the wider world our hobby would be met with a bit of amusement and as an extravagence by the average Joe.

[Vern]

1 hour ago, Taikonaut said:

I'm pretty confident the sovereign with 17,000 edition size won't get sold out for weeks if everyone is restricted to 3 per household and allocation to dealers are very limited. The Harry Potter 15,000 colour proofs are a lot more affordable and its popularity transends numismatic but still not sold out after 3 weeks. The Royal Mint probably has a record of how many buyers of their coins and coin types and constantly adjust its mintage figures to  maximise profits. I would guess there is a hardcore but small community that would buy all, then another bigger group that buys the odd ones. In the wider world our hobby would be met with a bit of amusement and as an extravagence by the average Joe.

Are you confident enough to wait until Wednesday? 😊

[Solachesis]

1 hour ago, Taikonaut said:

I'm pretty confident the sovereign with 17,000 edition size won't get sold out for weeks if everyone is restricted to 3 per household and allocation to dealers are very limited. The Harry Potter 15,000 colour proofs are a lot more affordable and its popularity transends numismatic but still not sold out after 3 weeks. The Royal Mint probably has a record of how many buyers of their coins and coin types and constantly adjust its mintage figures to  maximise profits. I would guess there is a hardcore but small community that would buy all, then another bigger group that buys the odd ones. In the wider world our hobby would be met with a bit of amusement and as an extravagence by the average Joe.

I would say that's because the harry potter coins aren't the best, and coloured is a niche market. You only have to look at how many listings here are sovereigns and how quickly they get snapped up to see how popular they are, add in the fact it's the second 2022 sovereign, and first with Charles, they'll sell out fast imo

[Paul]

Been doing some paper workings out and random number crunching and brain droppings in light of Tuesdays launch and drawing some comparisons, so thought i'd share them 

[Taikonaut]

45 minutes ago, Solachesis said:

I would say that's because the harry potter coins aren't the best, and coloured is a niche market. You only have to look at how many listings here are sovereigns and how quickly they get snapped up to see how popular they are, add in the fact it's the second 2022 sovereign, and first with Charles, they'll sell out fast imo

The Potter coins transends numistica. Traditional coincollectors may not be a fan and some might sight see its gimmicky but not the fans. Listing here does not represent the wider population. We are small pool of people really.