How many forum members as percentage have been scammed by new sellers

[Gordy]

1 hour ago, Spyder said:

Trust is a two way street. 

agreed but on here there is no buyer protection like ebay, so if someone is willing to part with 100's of £'s then its not unreasonable to ask for item first if its a pricey one.. you normally only get established members doing this too, and they would not rip you off for a few quid

[Spyder]

49 minutes ago, Fenlander1 said:

Hello and thank you for this interesting point raised.

I personally have not been scammed on here or ebay when purchasing items but I do quite alot of due diligence 100% feedback lots of sales wording ect basic stuff really.

As a new member myself I can only speak from personal experiance. When I found the forum via byb y tube channel i was looking to learn a little a more regarding the pm subject, it wasn't with a view to selling or buying straight away as I understand the trust issue we all have in place to keep safe.

I went on to join as a platinum member not to get the "bargains" from the sales thread early but to join in with discussions gain trust in others and learn i have since had 2 transactions on the forum both for purchases not sales with no issues both required me to place trust in the sellers and them to place trust in me. 

I don't think that sales are solely based on feedback several factors come into play as they should on a trust based system.

I think your question may have been better presented possibly, I may be wrong ( i usually am). It appears you are disgruntled your items did not sell straight away.

Whilst your items are not in my sphere of interest your items do look nice and are well presented in the photos and the descriptions are clear and I am sure they are reasonably priced.

Your items do appear to be quite a specialist subject and may only be of interest to certain specialists I too have a cpl of items that I could realistically only sell to dealers.

You could try using byb intermediary service but i would imagine by them time you payed the fees a dealers prices would be similar.

I personally sent a few kilos of silver in my 1st trade for a cpl of gold coins i wanted but because of due diligence I never once felt that other than the postal service I had anything to worry about.

Sorry for the long ramble but I thought another new members perspective can't hurt.

 

Thanks for this message. Let me start, I am not disgruntled that they have not sold as I will get within £30 from a dealer I will visit on Saturday. The question was more about why it difficult for new seller to be trusted.  I believe many members have not been scammed by new members.

Using someone like BYB only works if one has a lot of things to sell and are priced much higher then spot price. It would not work for me on these sells.

I not often in London so this is why I listed the items now as I was always planning to go to Hatton Garden ( note not HGM) to sell and I thought maybe some members might find them interesting before selling there.

Thanks again

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Spyder

[flyingveepixie]

@Spyder I've been on the forum for just over a year and have had 10 successful buying transactions, (although only received feedback for 9 of them).   I haven't had a single hiccup with any of them. 

  I haven't yet sold anything so still have to cross that bridge and will when I come to it, but I would be confident to trust everyone I've met on here so far and if for my first selling transaction I was expected to forward the item to a trusted member before receiving payment I would be happy to do so, although I might be less happy about doing that with a new member for obvious reasons.

[modofantasma]

14 minutes ago, flyingveepixie said:

I haven't yet sold anything so still have to cross that bridge and will when I come to it, but I would be confident to trust everyone I've met on here so far and if for my first selling transaction I was expected to forward the item to a trusted member before receiving payment I would be happy to do so, although I might be less happy about doing that with a new member for obvious reasons.

If you were selling here I for one would trust you as I imagine many members would. You've been around a while and often contribute into threads.

I might not necessarily be a buyer for your particular items though or I might not be shopping at the time you happen to list but the trust wouldn't be a problem. 

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by modofantasma

[flyingveepixie]

44 minutes ago, modofantasma said:

If you were selling here I for one would trust you as I imagine many members would. You've been around a while and often contribute into threads.

I might not necessarily be a buyer for your particular items though or I might not be shopping at the time you happen to list but the trust wouldn't be a problem. 

 

Thank you kindly.  😊

[sovereignsteve]

4 hours ago, Spyder said:

1 - Now how is a new seller supposed to get feedback if no one buys from them.

2 - Trust is a two way street. 

3 - Send us what you are selling and when it arrives we will pay you I am told.

1 - There are plenty of ways and several members have already aluded to them. Your point 3 is one good start😉

2 - It is indeed but in a forum sale someone has to trust first. The question is which direction is the safer option? See  3 below

3 - I just don't get why some new new members/sellers can't get their heads around this. It must say something about their attitude to others. They expect others to trust them, a completely new member with no feedback/forum interaction, a total stranger to whom they expect others to send hundreds, maybe thousands in the hope they will fulfil their obligation to send the coins. This with only bank account details or paypal email address. How difficult would that be to chase if they were scammed?
On the other side you have an established forum member with possibly hundreds of positive feedback, thousands of helpful forum posts etc etc and with the crucial addition that you know their address!

I know where my money would go.

[sovereignsteve]

5 hours ago, Spyder said:

So I ask the question again "How many members have been scammed by a new seller"

No one really knows. I am certain it has happened but equally sure it is very rare.

However that does not mean it won't happen in the future. Most members are intelligent people and do a risk assessment and take appropriate precautions based on that. You seem to be taking personal exception to this process.

On the subject of trust; there are some members on here that I would happily trust to send me coin purchases by 1st class mail without proof of posting. Indeed I have used some overseas members as intermediaries in coin purchases and trusted them to forward the coins to me.

[apachebleu]

 It's not easy to build trust somewhere people are looking to buy items worth thousands of pounds sight unseen. Personally when choosing a buyer I would look at the name and if it's someone I recognise contributing a lot to discussion, doing a bit of buying/selling and posting in today I recieved that's probably where my money goes. Maybe offer to cover the price of using backyardbullion intermediary for a couple of sales to build a reputation?

 I've  had a couple of sales/exchanges here and have had some deals fall through on trust issues though to be fair they thought I was dodgy! I work abroad so when I've been contacted asking for more pictures etc and have to explain I'm out the country but the girlfriend can get them in a day or two when she gets time to visit my storage people tend to get a bit apprehensive (understandably). Truth be told if I was on the other end I probably wouldn't buy from me if I was on the other end hearing that!

[Petra]

In just over a year being on here, never had a problem. Initially I was buying rather than selling, not a problem. Recently bought off a very new member. First time paid half up front, received, then paid rest. No hassle, then bought off him again straight away. A great seller. 🤔🫢

 

[Solachesis]

3 hours ago, Spyder said:

Thanks for this message. Let me start, I am not disgruntled that they have not sold as I will get within £30 from a dealer I will visit on Saturday. The question was more about why it difficult for new seller to be trusted.  I believe many members have not been scammed by new members.

Using someone like BYB only works if one has a lot of things to sell and are priced much higher then spot price. It would not work for me on these sells.

I not often in London so this is why I listed the items now as I was always planning to go to Hatton Garden ( note not HGM) to sell and I thought maybe some members might find them interesting before selling there.

Thanks again

 

You're local to me right? We've had a little chat. If there's anything you want to part with, and consider taking it to a bullion dealer and getting spot or less, send me a message. 

I'm quite picky with what I buy, and I don't have the biggest budget, but any cash deals in pms we make, I will leave you positive feedback for, which will help build up your reputation, and you'll get a better price than that a dealer will offer you. 

I might not want most of it, but it's worth a check before losing a chunk of its value to a dealer.

All the best, the forum can be daunting at first, it's like a pilgrim who has arrived in Mecca for the first time, surrounded by thousands that have made hajj or umrah before, and you don't know what's going on. But once you've been around the block, people will know you and before you know it, you'll have money in your bank before you've even left the house

[scotwasp]

I think it’s pretty easy, if you’re new why should anyone trust you, I’ve never been scammed, but I would never buy from anyone with no trading history unless they accepted payment on receipt, why would anyone.  If you have an excellent record as a buyer and a new seller  doesn’t trust you then , we’ll, it's not rocket science to be a wee bit careful.  
the reason I believe there isn’t many scammers here is most use sensible discretion.  I have often seen many of the big traders with impeccable reputations refuse great  deals from new members and then paying more than advertised, with payment on receipt.
there are so many honourable chaps here it heartwarming..

stick with it and you will be rewarded with fair deals and great camaraderie. 

 

 

[Spyder]

34 minutes ago, Petra said:

In just over a year being on here, never had a problem. Initially I was buying rather than selling, not a problem. Recently bought off a very new member. First time paid half up front, received, then paid rest. No hassle, then bought off him again straight away. A great seller. 🤔🫢

 

Hi, I like your idea of pay half upfront and the rest when it is delivered. Well done you

[Happypanda88]

8 hours ago, Spyder said:

I have put up three listing for what I can see is very fair prices and no one was willing to trust me and the people who will benefit is not forum members but dealers in Hatton Garden this weekend.

I had a look at your listings and not all are what you call mainstream mint products. Apart from the South African proof set, the others are old commemorative issues and possibly not interesting enough for members to part with their cash. In your case, it is more to do with the product on offer rather than solely a trust issue.

I seem to recall a new member on here a while ago wanting to sell his gold coins to finance a large purchase (might have been for a house deposit or a car.  I don't recall).  But he had a collection of 1oz gold Queen's Beasts among other coins on offer. Needless to say, they were sold fairly quickly. 

[Roy]

It appears you've asked for advice and then ignored it once it's given?

You won't sell anything other than payment post delivery without feedback or reputation. If you want to make the Hatton Garden dealers fatter then so be it, but it would be a shame to sell that South African set for less than spot.

I think you should remove 'Collector' from your profile!

Wait, aren't you the guy who had a 5 Sov with 3 file marks and thought they were edge knocks?

Edited January 6, 2023 by Roy

[Bigmarc]

Ha, just taken collector of my profile, should be another section for hoarder then I can remove the stacker one. Or maybe piler that's probably more me. 

[Gordy]

2 hours ago, Happypanda88 said:

I had a look at your listings and not all are what you call mainstream mint products. Apart from the South African proof set, the others are old commemorative issues and possibly not interesting enough for members to part with their cash. In your case, it is more to do with the product on offer rather than solely a trust issue.

This could definitely be a factor, i tend to go for pretty shiny silver or good quality stuff like Germania mint etc and always modern for silver for me...or quirky St Bees things but even then, i moved some on to purchase what my missus calls a 1970's gameboy (My new toy Sigma!!!!) 

with gold im pretty OCD and its always either .999 pure or 22 carat in the way of Sovs or Krugs etc with the odd Angel chucked in, anything other than that i'm not really interested, prime example for silver, i wont touch pre 2013 brits cos they aint pure, but others love them.

It can maybe just be as simple as the listings, other items you list may fly off the shelf in seconds

but try not to take any offers of delivery first personally, we have all been there and seen it happen quite often, its just part of the forum and it works

[Lyrinn]

I have been on the forum since 2020 and all 10 of my feedback are all from people who I have bought from - if, as you say, you have bought some things from members, kindly nudge the seller to leave trading feedback for you as the buyer.

Not everyone left me feedback, but I always did for them.

I am actually starting to scratch my chin about selling - haven't sold a single thing yet.

[flyingveepixie]

@Lyrinn  Same here.  I'm just waiting to see if silver spot price goes up enough for me not to make a loss on the over-large quantity of silver I rather stupidly purchased from RM as a completely naive newbie.  I understand I might have a long wait yet...🙃

Edited January 6, 2023 by flyingveepixie

[Spyder]

3 hours ago, Roy said:

 

You won't sell anything other than payment post delivery without feedback or reputation. If you want to make the Hatton Garden dealers fatter then so be it, but it would be a shame to sell that South African set for less than spot.

 

The only things going to Hatton Garden will be the Metalimports medals and hopefully will exchange them for some bullion silver coins.

 

I thank every one who contributed to this thread and now I will close it down as it has served it purpose

[ShineyMagpie]

1 hour ago, flyingveepixie said:

spot price goes up enough for me not to make a loss on the over-large quantity of silver I rather stupidly purchased from RM as a completely naive newbie

This right here is what is also good about he forum, people be humble and honest. its not easy to admit to mistakes we make and even less so when there is a financial element also but it proves we are also human and hopefully lets others learn.

 

[LawrenceChard]

15 hours ago, Spyder said:

Hello to all forum members

This is a general question "How many forum members have been scammed by a new forum member who has decided to sell metals they had?

I keep seeing as soon as someone registered on the forum, the first thing everyone says to them is "only buy from sellers with plenty of feedback".

Now how is a new seller supposed to get feedback if no one buys from them.

Trust is a two way street. 

Send us what you are selling and when it arrives we will pay you I am told.

I have put up three listing for what I can see is very fair prices and no one was willing to trust me and the people who will benefit is not forum members but dealers in Hatton Garden this weekend. I was willing to meet buyers and do cash on pickup and have even offered to swap where I would still be trusting someone else to send me their metals in exchange for mine. 

I have purposely not bumped any of my listing as it is pointless as new member. 

So I ask the question again "How many members have been scammed by a new seller"

Spyder

I have never tried to sell anything on TSF.

As someone pointed out some time ago, I have 0 (ZERO) trading feedback, so who would risk paying me upfront for anything?

Besides, @ChardsCoinandBullionDealer might wonder what was going on.

It's a tough old life!

😎

[Spyder]

4 hours ago, Roy said:

Wait, aren't you the guy who had a 5 Sov with 3 file marks and thought they were edge knocks?

Well thank you Sherlock Holmes,

From my memory, I recall others thought that they might be edge knocks. It wasn't until Lawrence Chard said that he thinks that they could have been done by a jewelers file. At this point everyone also thought this was the case including me.

Anyway thread was not about attacking me and more about why new sellers are not trusted when there is very little scams on this forum.

[Solachesis]

21 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

I have never tried to sell anything on TSF.

As someone pointed out some time ago, I have 0 (ZERO) trading feedback, so who would risk paying me upfront for anything?

Besides, @ChardsCoinandBullionDealer might wonder what was going on.

It's a tough old life!

😎

I always wondered if you ever buy something that's an absolute steal on here, and then take the money from the chards treasury and then add it to the stock 😎

[Zeuk]

3 minutes ago, Spyder said:

why new sellers are not trusted when there is very little scams on this forum.

Fwiw i think there's some tautology there, there are very little scams on the this forum because people are cautious about buying from new people.  Some of the trust comes from establishing relationships via interactions, in the absence of that the sell side can demonstrate trust by accepting risk.  I'm following a similar route to @flyingveepixie by getting a bunch of buy feedback before looking to trade out of anything.

[LawrenceChard]

36 minutes ago, Solachesis said:

I always wondered if you ever buy something that's an absolute steal on here, and then take the money from the chards treasury and then add it to the stock 😎

I don't buy on TSF either.

Are there ever any absolute steals?

😎