Stopping using Royal Mint for good ? Boycotting completely, voting with your feet/wallet, discussion.....

[Paul]

Just making this a separate thread, to put it out there for open discussion for the community here

It is mentioned on various comments with great regularity ongoing multiple issues with usually Royal Mint Inc

• QC issues
• Flawed/damaged coins being sent out
• Packing/capsules
• Multiple returns
• Delays
• Rapid fire, conveyor belt like releases one after another, week after week
• Lack lustre customer support
• Selling "pre-graded70" coins
• ......take your pick

Is it not the case, we should just wave our white flags and stop supporting and spending our cash with a brand.

Would you still use a restaurant if you had experienced this many issues 

Would you still a garage to work on your car if this was how you were dealt with

Would you stay a hotel that resembles Fawlty Towers levels of complaints  

 

With the multiple releases Ive purchased in the past year, im paying down this year (Queens Beasts Completer proofs, Great Engravers gold coins, multiple 2022 jubilee sovereign sets) after that i think I'm personally done with running the gauntlet of every release or trying backing the next RM winning horse, with the exception of keeping the Great Engravers series going  

Any new release I fancy for my stack, I will just take my luck buying at auction instead, already graded and nothing to worry about

Any opinions ? discussions ? 

 

 

 

[Shep]

27 minutes ago, Paul said:

Is it not the case, we should just wave our white flags and stop supporting and spending our cash with a brand.

I wish this could be the case. The Royal Mint has cultivated the perfect hype/FOMO combination for its releases. Everything from the 1000000s long queues to the anxiety inducing wait to see if your order is confirmed, and then the further anxiety of waiting to see whether you receive a coin that looks like it’s been run over, all of which feeds the hype and FOMO machine.

I feel many people are driven to purchase these modern releases primarily by the fear of missing out on a potential profit, rather than truly liking the coins. For example, the James Bond and Music Legends in my opinion are just complete trash tier releases fed by unworldly amounts of hype and now people who bought to flip are getting badly burned. 

The Royal Mint knows it can churn out utter sh*te and simply get away with it because if I don’t buy next time, there will be some other mug in the online queue who will take my place. There is no incentive for them to change any of the issues you have highlighted in your post.

I nearly blew my stack when I received my 2022 SOTD Sov this morning complete with tank tracks across the obverse. What makes it worse is that they have the bloody nerve to put that little QC sticker in the box! Its the equivalent of seeing your mashed up coin and then being flipped the middle finger directly by the Mint!! 😡

Much like you this has become a watershed moment for me. For the foreseeable I’m going to stick to buying coins that have a bit of history and a story behind them, I always find I enjoy owning these types of coins much more in any case.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Shep

[dicker]

31 minutes ago, Paul said:

Just making this a separate thread, to put it out there for open discussion for the community here

It is mentioned on various comments with great regularity ongoing multiple issues with usually Royal Mint Inc

• QC issues
• Flawed/damaged coins being sent out
• Packing/capsules
• Multiple returns
• Delays
• Rapid fire, conveyor belt like releases one after another, week after week
• Lack lustre customer support
• Selling "pre-graded70" coins
• ......take your pick

Is it not the case, we should just wave our white flags and stop supporting and spending our cash with a brand.

Would you still use a restaurant if you had experienced this many issues 

Would you still a garage to work on your car if this was how you were dealt with

Would you stay a hotel that resembles Fawlty Towers levels of complaints  

 

With the multiple releases Ive purchased in the past year, im paying down this year (Queens Beasts Completer proofs, Great Engravers gold coins, multiple 2022 jubilee sovereign sets) after that i think I'm personally done with running the gauntlet of every release or trying backing the next RM winning horse, with the exception of keeping the Great Engravers series going  

Any new release I fancy for my stack, I will just take my luck buying at auction instead, already graded and nothing to worry about

Any opinions ? discussions ? 

 

 

 

I have not used them for years and cannot see a time that I would.

I am not a fan of any of the new designs (especially the Robin Hood theme), detest the copper coloured sovereign and cannot stand their customer service.

They do have a highly effective marketing department that promotes to the non-numismatist very successfully.

Furthermore, I think that the sale of the coins that are in high demand (Una,Graces,Gothic) would be far better served by lottery rather than the queue system.

best

Dicker

[James32]

Halfway out the door due to 5 bad coins out of the last 7 releases. 

Unfortunately we are a generation who wants what they can't have, hence going back time after time.

Truth be told,it's insanity because none of it actually makes any logical sense,when thought about for a few minutes.

 

[Paul]

47 minutes ago, Shep said:

Much like you this has become a watershed moment for me. For the foreseeable I’m going to stick to buying coins that have a bit of history and a story behind them, I always find I enjoy owning these types of coins much more in any case.

Yeah, it is a bit of a wake up moment, when you just think " i'm done"

Personally, Ive had a little leisurely look on coin cabinet sale for tomorrow and picked out a couple of already graded 70 gold items I could like in my stack, will see if i win one at a reasonable price.  Much less stressful experience than a pre launch hype/discussion, RM release day, delivery wait, unboxing anxiety, calling/ arranging returns, replacement anxiety etc etc 

[Gordy]

1 hour ago, Paul said:

Would you still use a restaurant if you had experienced this many issues 

Would you still a garage to work on your car if this was how you were dealt with

Would you stay a hotel that resembles Fawlty Towers levels of complaints  

If it was the only restaurant in the country to serve Buttered Lobster Tails and Fillet Mignon

If there were no other garages able to fix my car

If it was the only hotel on the Island

Then you would have no choice but to use their services, just like the RM with their RM only proof releases in limited numbers

will people keep using the Royal Mint?.... yes

Simply because if there is a 10oz limited edition of only 150 that you really want you either buy it from the RM after waiting in long queues or buy it secondary market for possibly double the price or more.

If you keep taking the hump and not using the RM do you think for one nano-second they would notice or even be bothered...... for arguments sake, if 8850 buyers took the hump for a 150 limited release then the other 150 out of possibly 10,000 prepared to queue then they will snap them up... the royal mint wont even notice...

they will still get their sales....

I for one would love it if the whole world took the hump cos then i could get what i want when i want it... but you know we are all addicted to that queue on a monday morning... 

[Paul]

I haven't got the hump with RM at all @Gordy - Ive put it out to the forum for discussion in its own thread

I feel Ive been very fortunate and lucky to avoid any quality related issues on my purchases.  Just a delayed Bond coin i was waiting four months on is my only moan with them

  

[Gordy]

7 minutes ago, Paul said:

I haven't got the hump with RM at all @Gordy - Ive put it out to the forum for discussion in its own thread

I feel Ive been very fortunate and lucky to avoid any quality related issues on my purchases.  Just a delayed Bond coin i was waiting four months on is my only moan with them

  

I'm still waiting on the Hanry VII 5oz and then I get an email yesterday telling me the second release is out on monday 😂

I never meant you personally, i just meant people in general, they way i say stuff i guess.... a lot of people get frustrated by them, me too, but i'm pretty laid back and just accept it for what it is... if i dont get anything on release day then i'm like 'hey ho' never mind.... 

 

[BarryWoods]

Selling coins to you and then waiting months for them, whilst they churn out more releases, and the shear volume of releases.. and the grading moderns fad.  means I've given up on proofs. will stick to just bullion.  

QC issues on proofs are embarrassing now, looking at all the examples posted here. and @BackyardBullionvideos. 

[dicker]

1 hour ago, Paul said:

Yeah, it is a bit of a wake up moment, when you just think " i'm done"

Personally, Ive had a little leisurely look on coin cabinet sale for tomorrow and picked out a couple of already graded 70 gold items I could like in my stack, will see if i win one at a reasonable price.  Much less stressful experience than a pre launch hype/discussion, RM release day, delivery wait, unboxing anxiety, calling/ arranging returns, replacement anxiety etc etc 

I completely agree.  TSF, Auction and select dealers all are a far better overall experience for me. 

[dicker]

@BarryWoods A wise decision….given the travails you have extensively documented on other areas of this forum.

Best

Dicker

[Chorlton]

Agreed the quality control seems lacking and generally do not buy direct due to higher price and quality. For newer proofs I tend to buy graded to avoid issues and anything else from here and other places with a good reputation.

[dikefalos]

For me it would be tough. And i must say, i didn't had that much issues with RM coins. The last year, or so, just the 2 OZ Platinum Jubilee silver came with a cloud around the horse. Not a spot, the whole area inside the inner circle is hazy. That much, that i propably have the proof/matte proof variation of this coin. And i didn't bought it at the mint. 

But quit buying from the RM? I mean, i still think the Monarchs series will be one of the best sets, even after i saw the James coin. The Tudors will be a nice set, would be hard for me to stop it at all. And buying RM coins at german dealers isn't the best idea, since i don't got neverending funds. For example the Henry silvers you could, and still can, buy in Germany are like 500 the 1 OZ, 1000 the 2, and for 3000 the 5 OZ. Biggest fear remains the milkspots. I had a 2 OZ proof completer, fully loaded with spots and haze from a dealer here. He took it back without discussion, but with a message, that he won't sell me coins anymore. I payd like 600€ for the coin. Biggest fear remains the milkspots. But that's in general my main thought, to switch to gold and buying less coins. 

[Chorlton]

2 minutes ago, dikefalos said:

For me it would be tough. And i must say, i didn't had that much issues with RM coins. The last year, or so, just the 2 OZ Platinum Jubilee silver came with a cloud around the horse. Not a spot, the whole area inside the inner circle is hazy. That much, that i propably have the proof/matte proof variation of this coin. And i didn't bought it at the mint. 

But quit buying from the RM? I mean, i still think the Monarchs series will be one of the best sets, even after i saw the James coin. The Tudors will be a nice set, would be hard for me to stop it at all. And buying RM coins at german dealers isn't the best idea, since i don't got neverending funds. For example the Henry silvers you could, and still can, buy in Germany are like 500 the 1 OZ, 1000 the 2, and for 3000 the 5 OZ. Biggest fear remains the milkspots. I had a 2 OZ proof completer, fully loaded with spots and haze from a dealer here. He took it back without discussion, but with a message, that he won't sell me coins anymore. I payd like 600€ for the coin. Biggest fear remains the milkspots. But that's in general my main thought, to switch to gold and buying less coins. 

I did the same as the amount of milk spots, hazing and rapid tarnishing on newer Royal Mint silver proofs is too much of a risk. Older silver coins including proofs are fine as they have generally settled down and unlikely to change further beyond gradual toning.

[marston59]

As Paul I'm only collecting Great Engravers series this year from the Royal Mint, any other coins I like will be brought from auctions already graded. 

[Paul]

14 minutes ago, marston59 said:

As Paul I'm only collecting Great Engravers series this year from the Royal Mint, any other coins I like will be brought from auctions already graded. 

Think that is a good plan for a worry free life. The 3-4 months wait for gradings to return from USA also don't help the enjoyment of this hobby. 

[AndrewSL76]

Well, today both Coin Cabinet and Coins of the Realm have auctions. Over 500 items between them both ranging from plain edge gold gothics and jubilee gold 50p sets to quarter sovereigns and silver sets.

Most would have been available at direct from the mint for Mint Marque customers without any concerns but for the general collector the auction is the only opportunity.

Looking at the prices, it’s not a surprise that Paul is bang on (as he usually is!). If you wanted the 2022 Jubilee gold 50p set from the Mint you would have to be a Mint Marque customer and pay £2,305. Currently it’s available to anyone for £1,800.00 at Coin Cabinet. Interesting, right?!

Also, a 70 graded Gold Gothic is still in reasonable territory and you don’t have, as Paul said, the issue of QC and then the wait to grade. Who knew!!

Anyone else cancelling their Mint Marques and going in for auctions only. I’ve always had a balance of the two but now wonder if it’s worth it at all. I am probably going to remain in for a short while longer to see whether they look to change things up a bit, or not.

I will probably just depart modern coins and instead stick to collecting old bullion and hoping for scare/rare items that will grade well. Far more interesting as you learn about the grading process and also discover new things - history, politics, even geography! Do you get that by buying a James Bond coin??

[Paul]

54 minutes ago, AndrewSL76 said:

Do you get that by buying a James Bond coin??

-£1,000+ less than RRP issue prices for BOND 2oz gold 70s thus far in coincabinet auction  

[Petra]

51 minutes ago, Paul said:

-£1,000+ less than RRP issue prices for BOND 2oz gold 70s thus far in coincabinet auction  

Nothing like taking advantage of others pain in an auction!😁

[blackadder]

1 hour ago, AndrewSL76 said:

I will probably just depart modern coins and instead stick to collecting old bullion

Less stress collecting just bullion lol most likely if i stuck to 100% bullion i'd have made more 💰

[Stuntman]

I'm someone who almost always buys bullion coins rather than proofs.

If I can buy the new bullion coin and bar releases I want from other UK precious metal dealers, then I do.  But some of these items are rarely if ever stocked or distributed by them.  For these items I do still use the Royal Mint, but because I dislike their online bullion buying process, I only do so if I have no practical alternative.The information that would be interesting to me is whether the likes of Chards and Atkinsons are ever offered the opportunity of stocking and distributing any bullion release that they want from the RM.  For example, the Una & The Lion bars when they were released, more of the platinum bullion coins and bars, more of the 10 oz silver coins and bars etc.  

If this was/is indeed possible, I would very happily make all future bullion purchases through Chards, Atkinsons or BBP for example and cheerfully ignore the RM website.  But of the 4 coins that I have bought so far this year, 3 of them were through the RM because they were not actually available anywhere else in the UK at the time I was looking to buy them a couple of months ago, and I don't think that the availability situation has changed much since then. 

The 3 coins I am specifically talking about are the 2022 double sovereign, 10 oz Silver QB completer and 1 oz Platinum QB completer.  Having checked just now, BBP has two of these coins in stock and one out of stock, Atkinsons only has one of these coins listed but it is out of stock, and I couldn't find any of them listed on the Chards website.  So effectively I would still have buy from the RM if I want these items.

It's probably fair enough if the RM wishes to control the sales of its proof coins and restrict the mintages to create the buying frenzy and secondary market pricing.  I don't necessarily agree with it, but it's their own decision to make.

[GoldenGriffin]

The quality I've received from the RM has been good, albeit a few capsules completely open and partly open.

This is based on first inspection.

The real test is the result after conservation and grading.  So far, I haven't done too bad - I can tell by the high resolution images that the coins that came back as a 69, needed conservation and I didn't conserve.

I bought a coin from a dealer and it looked perfect based on the high resolution images they used, however when the coin arrived, it had hairlines all over it.

I could have sent the coin back, but it was so rare, I didn't and I'm intrigued what grade it'll get when I finally send it off.

I agree, there are a lot of releases and it's hard to keep up.

Edited March 27, 2022 by GoldenGriffin

[AppleZippoandMetronome]

The QC issues have had a definite impact on the way I shop with the RM. For a time I had considered just not buying any RM products but I have softened that line a bit. I still buy the coins I want I'm just getting a lot more of them from the secondary market instead of from the RM direct. Chards and Coin Connection have supplied most of the latest RM issues I've purchased. Looking back at recent orders out of 6 orders only two have come direct from the RM whereas in the past it likely would have been all 6.

The issue for me is simply not having the time to faff about with the returns process. I know the process is simple but I live in a very rurual area so an unexpected trip to the post office for me cuts about 1.5 hours out of my work day. I have much better things to get on with during the day than waste that time returning a product to the RM.

As for the greater issue of enough people voting with their wallets to make a difference I just can't see it happening while modern releases remain so flippable. The potential to make a quick buck will likely continue to drive demand for modern releases so long as that quick buck is there to be made.

Edited March 27, 2022 by AppleZippoandMetronome

[Pete]

I think QC at the RM is no more than a check to see if there is a coin in the box and bears no relationship whatsoever to the condition of the coin.
Probably a few trainees doing their work experience on minimum wage robotically placing printed stickers on packages wearing EarPods.
If there is more to it than this then whoever is in charge of QC needs to be replaced.
Been like this for years now but occasionally the RM is capable of issuing truly stunning coins.
I find sometimes a similar experience buying Indian takeaways - depends on the chef working on the day - excellent or poor for the same dish.

[Oldun]

https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/royal-mint-quality-control/919