Only special delivery covers bullion ( great tagline we all love to use )... unless there's an actual problem.

[James32]

Hi all, this is on behalf of another member whom I won't name, but I'm starting this thread in the hope it throws up some helpful advice for them, and quite frankly...as we are all on the proverbial hook.

Will try and keep as short as possible, but basically he posted a gold coin by special delivery, well wrapped and protected, correct address, nothing obvious as to what was inside. This is a highly trusted member who has successfully traded multiple multiple thousands in bullion items. 

The coin never arrived, the tracking never updated after a couple of days. We waited a couple of weeks in good faith/hope it would eventually arrive ( never did) the seller duly refunded full cost and started the claim process, all pretty straight forward although highly frustrating. 

Another few weeks pass, and today the seller finally gets a response from the Royal mail, but not the kind of response he/i/any of us would be hoping for..

Dear Mr xxxxxx

Thanks for contacting royal mail regarding a special delivery item, reference #######

××× The item has been removed from the network because we believe it contains prohibited items. Royal mail is entitled to deal with prohibited items as we see fit, so it has been disposed of. For security reasons no further details are available. 

Regards Mary Tilley, Royal mail××××

 

This is the worst blanket statement I've read in my sheltered life, seriously 😐 is this the service we are paying for ? Can any postal worker's or even law professional offer tips on the member next step?

Has any dealers on here even faced a similar situation and if so, did you reach a satisfactory outcome?!

Thanks for reading and for any advice shared to help the member in question, but also us all moving forward. 

If ive tagged you it's because I believe you may have a helpful input, thanks in advance. 

@watchesandwhisky @pricha @arphethean @arshimo2012 @AndrewSL76 @Tn21 @DuncanWylieWilson @theman73 @modofantasma @richatthecroft @Paul

[richatthecroft]

Mmmm…can’t see a Gold coin on the Royal Mail’s prohibited item list…

https://www.royalmail.com/sites/royalmail.com/files/2022-04/royal-mail-prohibited-and-restricted-items-april-2022.pdf

Sorry to hear about this frankly, ridiculous situation. 

Edited November 5, 2022 by richatthecroft

[AndrewSL76]

Pretty sure, though I could be wrong, and if I am HUGE apologies, but I believe @BackyardBullion had a similar issue a while back…….I believe he managed to sort it. I will have a look later.

Regardless, sorry you are having this issue. 

[Bigmarc]

1 minute ago, richatthecroft said:

Mmmm…can’t see a Gold coin on the Royal Mail’s prohibited item list…

https://www.royalmail.com/sites/royalmail.com/files/2022-04/royal-mail-prohibited-and-restricted-items-april-2022.pdf

Sorry to hear about this frankly, ridiculous situation. 

Could have been smoking a spliff whilst wrapping it. 

On a serious not there must be an escalation avenue because it just looks like a automated reply (like the letters the tax man sends).

[James32]

Just now, richatthecroft said:

Mmmm…can’t see a Gold coin on the Royal Mail’s prohibited item list…

https://www.royalmail.com/sites/royalmail.com/files/2022-04/royal-mail-prohibited-and-restricted-items-april-2022.pdf

Personally believe it was a generic response to an item being either lost or less likely but unfortunately still possible "stolen" , not casting any aspersions whatsoever, but that's a very vague response from someone I assume is relatively high up in the Royal mail. 

3 minutes ago, AndrewSL76 said:

Pretty sure, though I could be wrong, and if I am HUGE apologies, but I believe @BackyardBullion had a similar issue a while back…….I believe he managed to sort it. I will have a look later.

Regardless, sorry you are having this issue. 

Very much appreciated. 

[pricha]

I've heard of this before but can't remember the outcome sadly . It'll take some research. Honestly Royal Mail have a death wish. Its basically getting rid of staff of 35 years experience and want to replace them with owner drivers , no uniform no pension holidays etc. Basically cheap labour.  Don't believe strikes are about pay rises. Its about protetecting the service. I'd be horrified if a specail delivery didn't turn up ? It's heartbreaking . Not as if the their is any great alternatives.  Bascily if you take a special delivery to a counter the person behind the counter must ask what's inside incase its a prohibited item. Of course you can now ask for the item to be collected by your postman but postman have not been trained to ask what's inside. Only to collect the item.  Good luck to with their dreadful customer services.  

[pricha]

Of course many dealers use special delivery service so the prohibited items is a nonsense on gold coins.

[BackyardBullion]

What you going to want to do is phone the customer service number, the regular one. Then you will need to ask whoever answers the call for a special investigation escalation. Don't take no for an answer and just keep saying I want to escalate this and eventually they will say somebody should call you back within 4 hours. That person is more likely to be able to actually help you than any customer service representative would. You probably quote your claim reference number as well to help speed things along.

You could also have a quick Google and try and find the executives email addresses. They will hopefully reply but it's not guaranteed. But if you keep sending emails to them about this, hopefully somebody will get back to you.

My situation was a little bit different because I saw on my tracking that they were removing my item from the network and we're going to dispose it but I caught it in time. I have never had to make a single claim for anything lost within special delivery so I can't speak from experience about whether or not precious metals are covered, but from my understanding they should be.

Good luck and keep us all informed as to how you get on.

[DuncanWylieWilson]

26 minutes ago, James32 said:

Hi all, this is on behalf of another member whom I won't name, but I'm starting this thread in the hope it throws up some helpful advice for them, and quite frankly...as we are all on the proverbial hook.

Will try and keep as short as possible, but basically he posted a gold coin by special delivery, well wrapped and protected, correct address, nothing obvious as to what was inside. This is a highly trusted member who has successfully traded multiple multiple thousands in bullion items. 

The coin never arrived, the tracking never updated after a couple of days. We waited a couple of weeks in good faith/hope it would eventually arrive ( never did) the seller duly refunded full cost and started the claim process, all pretty straight forward although highly frustrating. 

Another few weeks pass, and today the seller finally gets a response from the Royal mail, but not the kind of response he/i/any of us would be hoping for..

Dear Mr xxxxxx

Thanks for contacting royal mail regarding a special delivery item, reference #######

××× The item has been removed from the network because we believe it contains prohibited items. Royal mail is entitled to deal with prohibited items as we see fit, so it has been disposed of. For security reasons no further details are available. 

Regards Mary Tilley, Royal mail××××

 

This is the worst blanket statement I've read in my sheltered life, seriously 😐 is this the service we are paying for ? Can any postal worker's or even law professional offer tips on the member next step?

Has any dealers on here even faced a similar situation and if so, did you reach a satisfactory outcome?!

Thanks for reading and for any advice shared to help the member in question, but also us all moving forward. 

If ive tagged you it's because I believe you may have a helpful input, thanks in advance. 

@watchesandwhisky @pricha @arphethean @arshimo2012 @AndrewSL76 @Tn21 @DuncanWylieWilson @theman73 @modofantasma @richatthecroft @Paul

Don’t get me started on Royal Mail.

All I will say is that nothing short of blood, sweat, tears and tenacity is required when making any sort of claim from Royal Mail.

I have several contacts within Royal Mail and they all say that they’re taught to disfavour claims, i.e. remove the benefit of the doubt.

Even with a multitude of evidence Royal Mail make people climb mountains when claiming.

I don’t have time to espouse all my feelings about Royal Mail, but I will say that if anybody has issues with then please contact the Postal Review Panel: 

postalreview@royalmail.com

All the best and thanks for the tag.

Kind regards,

Duncan. ⭐️

[James32]

3 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

What you going to want to do is phone the customer service number, the regular one. Then you will need to ask whoever answers the call for a special investigation escalation. Don't take no for an answer and just keep saying I want to escalate this and eventually they will say somebody should call you back within 4 hours. That person is more likely to be able to actually help you than any customer service representative would. You probably quote your claim reference number as well to help speed things along.

You could also have a quick Google and try and find the executives email addresses. They will hopefully reply but it's not guaranteed. But if you keep sending emails to them about this, hopefully somebody will get back to you.

My situation was a little bit different because I saw on my tracking that they were removing my item from the network and we're going to dispose it but I caught it in time. I have never had to make a single claim for anything lost within special delivery so I can't speak from experience about whether or not precious metals are covered, but from my understanding they should be.

Good luck and keep us all informed as to how you get on.

 

1 minute ago, DuncanWylieWilson said:

Don’t get me started on Royal Mail.

All I will say is that nothing short of blood, sweat, tears and tenacity is required when making any sort of claim from Royal Mail.

I have several contacts within Royal Mail and they all say that they’re taught to disfavour claims, i.e. remove the benefit of the doubt.

Even with a multitude of evidence Royal Mail make people climb mountains when claiming.

I don’t have time to espouse all my feelings about Royal Mail, but I will say that if anybody has issues with then please contact the Postal Review Panel: 

postalreview@royalmail.com

All the best and thanks for the tag.

Kind regards,

Duncan. ⭐️

Great appreciated to you both. 

[richatthecroft]

18 minutes ago, James32 said:

Personally believe it was a generic response to an item being either lost or less likely but unfortunately still possible "stolen" , not casting any aspersions whatsoever, but that's a very vague response from someone I assume is relatively high up in the Royal mail. 

Very much appreciated. 

I think you are correct, a stock response.  I would follow @BackyardBullion's advice.

[arphethean]

I'm sorry to hear of this situation. I have not encountered this particular problem before but have had success receiving compensation for a lost SD item after a deeply frustrating and exasperating battle. 

My attempts to get any success via normal channels, phoning customer service and using the online claim forms were fruitless but after emailing the chief executive office I received a reply on the same day and had the money in my bank account the day after. 

Email ceo.office@royalmail.com

Wishing you luck getting a swift and full resolution. 

I'm sorry to say the organisation is in a sad way. 😔 

[James32]

1 minute ago, arphethean said:

I'm sorry to hear of this situation. I have not encountered this particular problem before but have had success receiving compensation for a lost SD item after a deeply frustrating and exasperating battle. 

My attempts to get any success via normal channels, phoning customer service and using the online claim forms were fruitless but after emailing the chief executive office I received a reply on the same day and had the money in my bank account the day after. 

Email ceo.office@royalmail.com

Wishing you luck getting a swift and full resolution. 

I'm sorry to say the organisation is in a sad way. 😔 

Greatly appreciated,thank you.

[BackyardBullion]

If we're going to share stories about Royal Mail, I have a good one to share here as well.

I had an international parcel go missing. My customer was great about it. Completely understanding to wait a few extra weeks just in case it turned up but it never did. So I sent to replacement which turned up within 5 days across the world to the USA. I put a claim in for the first package and it was insured up to £250. The value of the sale was £140.

I submitted the claim with all of the accompanying documents required including proof of payment from the customer and also proof of postage and the slip that shows I had paid for the enhanced cover.

About 10 days later I got a letter from Royal mail saying my claim was successful and they enclosed a check for £50 plus the cost of postage. They said that that was the limit of the cover for the product that I had used. Obviously this is completely wrong and it was very obvious on the postage receipt that I had used the £250 cover.

So I rang Royal mail and I spoke to a lady who advised me to cash the check and she would send out the balance payment immediately as it was an obvious mistake. It took a further 9 weeks for Royal mail to action this and get the second cheque out. I rang about six times within this period asking for updates and each time was told it was still under investigation and that it could take another 3 weeks, their self-imposed deadlines just kept on slipping.

Fast forward to the last time I called where I really had had enough and I asked for it to be escalated and I put in a formal complaint saying that I believed that they were deliberately withholding the cash. Within 4 hours I had a phone call from one of the investigations team members and he advised me a check was in the post immediately.

In my opinion, and this is just my opinion. I have no fact to back it up, the Royal mail did this deliberately because they know that some people will not notice or have the energy or time to follow up and make phone call after phone call to get what's rightfully theirs.

Take from this what you will but it's like squeezing blood from a stone.

 

[DuncanWylieWilson]

9 minutes ago, arphethean said:

I'm sorry to hear of this situation. I have not encountered this particular problem before but have had success receiving compensation for a lost SD item after a deeply frustrating and exasperating battle. 

My attempts to get any success via normal channels, phoning customer service and using the online claim forms were fruitless but after emailing the chief executive office I received a reply on the same day and had the money in my bank account the day after. 

Email ceo.office@royalmail.com

Wishing you luck getting a swift and full resolution. 

I'm sorry to say the organisation is in a sad way. 😔 

I can relate. 😂

Thanks for sharing this.

As far as I’m concerned insurance is insurance and they ought to pay if they lose or damage your goods.

[James32]

Just now, DuncanWylieWilson said:

I can relate. 😂

Thanks for sharing this.

As far as I’m concerned insurance is insurance and they ought to pay if they lose or damage your goods.

Completely agree. Thankfully/touch wood I've never personally had to make a claim. But over the past few weeks I've taken to photographing every stage of "over wrapping" the parcel ( including what sock colour im wearing) , weighing on picture each step, then finally finished sealed addressed envelope/box/RM bag. Then always over insuring items at sometimes own expense, I'd rather pay an extra £1/£2 today than face a £1000+ regret tomorrow. 

Thanks for all the very helpful responses everyone, I will update with hopefully a positive outcome in due course. 

[pricha]

Apparently if you create your own label to hand to the postman you have to read and agree with a declaration that no prohibited items are in the package . This will cover you. Unfortunately it's the stress of a missing coin and the hassle of ringing customer service if you can get to them no one really wants  Good luck. 

[arphethean]

I have more, much more, to say on the topic of Royal Mail insurance and the claims process but will start a new thread as there are things I think anyone sending PMs would do well to know. What I will say here, however to anyone attempting to claim for SD loss is get your evidence together. This obviously means post office receipt as a starting point.

This also means though, you need an invoice showing the original purchase of the goods. This needs to be an official invoice from an actual dealer. This was the only thing that the claims team would accept for my lost item. Seeing as I bought the item from an individual the claims team would not reimburse me. The CEO was however happy with the invoice I sent them which the seller kindly put together at my request.  

[James32]

1 minute ago, arphethean said:

I have more, much more, to say on the topic of Royal Mail insurance and the claims process but will start a new thread as there are things I think anyone sending PMs would do well to know. What I will say here, however to anyone attempting to claim for SD loss is get your evidence together. This obviously means post office receipt as a starting point.

This also means though, you need an invoice showing the original purchase of the goods. This needs to be an official invoice from an actual dealer. This was the only thing that the claims team would accept for my lost item. Seeing as I bought the item from an individual the claims team would not reimburse me. The CEO was however happy with the invoice I sent them which the seller kindly put together at my request.  

This part has always played on my mind, I'm glad you brought it up.

So is 95% of the forum ( me included) buying from each other, technically regurgitating each others items over and over again at risk if the original invoice is long gone to recycling? Or would a declaration from the buyer/seller count 🤔 

[JamesH]

This is shocking. I naively assumed the special delivery status and value of protection paid for, meant the item was duly insured without question. This is really concerning. Good luck to the original seller to whom this impacted and thanks for sharing 👍🏼

[pricha]

Sadly with Royal Mail it's a race to the bottom to compete with Amazon and the like.  Its all about making more money for the owners.  Apparently some Czech billionaire.  Expect your gold coins to be left on the doorstep very soon.  Its heartbreaking .  

[jackflash123]

I understand this post was specifically meant for SD deliveries but I thought it would be a good place to add an update regarding an item sent by 1st class signed for.

I recently sent a 100g TSF bar by 1st class signed at the buyers request. This bar went missing and after waiting several weeks in good faith that it may turn up, it still didn't arrive.

I was the sender so I decided to help the buyer by making a claim for him, because I had the original postage receipt. I completed the online claims form, and uploaded proof of purchase, proof of value of the item in the form of the original sales invoice and submitted everything in line with Royal Mails guidelines.

After waiting for apx 6 weeks, and contacting them several times by phone in-between waiting, they eventually sent me a cheque for £53.45 and closed the case. The amount was £50 for the lost item plus £3.45 for the original postage costs.

The 100g bar cost £100 and they would only reimburse £50 stating that was their limit of insurance on 1st class signed.

The moral of this story is that it takes a long time to deal with RM customer services and they are extremely inefficient when it comes to someone trying to make a claim from them. And if you're sending anything with a value over £50 then SD is your best choice for insurance purposes. But as this thread shows us, not even using SD, their premium service, can guarantee a smooth claims process if something goes missing.

I have stopped using Royal Mail for the time being because I think all these strikes and disruptions to service are increasing the odds of something being stolen or going missing.

I cannot think of a more reliable service because the courier companies such as DPD or DHL are just as bad when it comes to missing items so maybe the best option is just to stop sending stuff all together? Or at least keep the number of packages you send to an absolute minimum, at least until things get resolved with Royal Mail and all these strikes 🤷

[theman73]

9 minutes ago, James32 said:

This part has always played on my mind, I'm glad you brought it up.

So is 95% of the forum ( me included) buying from each other, technically regurgitating each others items over and over again at risk if the original invoice is long gone to recycling? Or would a declaration from the buyer/seller count 🤔 

No

Not like that.

I selling something else, over 10.000 orders till now... it's about were your claim land.

You will get different solution for the exact similar problem from Royal Mail

Incompetence it's a must have badge at Royal Mail and unfortunately they are full of thief's 

Just don't give up, they will try everything to throw away your claim. 

Twitter, call phone, letters, use everything and always ask for a writing answer.

Good luck

[pricha]

I worked with Royal Mail 37 years. When I first started the Investigation Branch ( their police force ) picked up a employee stealing every month. Sometimes two or three.  It was a regular thing.  I haven't seen anyone picked up in over ten years. It doesn't happen any more.

 And uniformed postmen on decent wages , pension , sick pay and holidays are going to be got rid off to be replaced by gig economy people on very poor pay and conditions.  Put two and two together and be very careful in future when using the service.  It breaks my heart to say this but just be careful folks. It's not the company it used to be. 

Edited November 5, 2022 by pricha

[ady]

Sorry to hear your predicament. It has crossed my mind lately that these parcels are not being dealt with correctly when delivered and had them just posted through the letter box. Asked for no signature, and provided no signature for the items you recently sent to me.

They have admitted "removing the item from the network", I'd say raise a police complaint (get a crime number) as good measure as the sender would have stated the item was not a prohibited item. 

It did cross my mind to the detection of drugs as has been mentioned, but what ever the excuse you'd think they would inform the police on such matters. I have bought silver bullets an wondered if scanned they would be pick up as a prohibited item.

As an an additional point to SD though know this is not relevant to your case, a paper signature ought to be sought on delivery not those stupid screens, if you are asked for a signature at all..