Spark268

My calculation assumes a constant gold to silver ratio which we know now is at historical lows, but both are monetary metals which aim to hold value. You can deflate with the inflation rate, but thats known to be flawed in itself, and perhaps more so !

i am open to being corrected on my calculation, but you've not shown why, and have not shown your calculation. Britain was under a gold standard back then, where 1 pound equalled 20 schillings which equalled 1 gold sovereign. 120 sovereigns would be worth 52.8K today.

why not? I thought sovereigns amounted to £1 back then?

by my calculations £120 back then would be 120 sovereigns which would be worth £51,600 now, giving the silver price of £73 per ounce. I dont know if its £120 worth of silver, or that for the silver, and the cost to build the model aswell. A conservative assumption that half was labour, would give an estimate of £36.50 per ounce.

ahh the bain of textual conversation, and mis understandings thereof. I have taken some flak earlier on in this thread and that made me overly defensive. I'm sorry for this and thank you for perservering You are right in that the price needs to compensate buyers for the hit that they take on VAT, otherwise they lose money. Recently, since 2020 atleast, there has been a difference between the quoted silver price (currently at £19.91) and the sales price on here £22-23, or on other secondary venues, known as a premium. Dealers have this premium plus VAT on top, meaning that places like BBP are charging up to £29. I think this premium is more as a result of supply and demand, rather than a compensation for any VAT paid. If supply continues to outstrip demand, then that premium could disappear also.

I did miss that and i apologise. You started that post critisising mine and lost me there. I'm going to move on, if you don't mind.

if you wanted to ask for a clarification, you should have just asked for one. Things like please and thank you are optional, but go a long way, both in the the UK and Australia. You did not do any of this. Given all my posts confuse you, i am flogging a dead horse anyway.

thanks, i hear that quite often 😁

I wrote my original post quoting yours, using language a 12 year would understand. if this confuses you, i can only apologise.

there is no law, natural or otherwise that says you should do this. The only way this is possible is that the market premiums have been sufficient larger than 20% for some time, but this is not guarunteed. you only get back spot when selling to the dealers. The VAT sucks, but the expectation is that over time, any price rises should cover this.

I have got a cracking solution to this wonderful thread. how about two trading sub forums? Like the graded versus ungraded we have now. Free Market Trades Trades more or less as it is now. Prices rise and fall based on free market supply and demand. Price-Controlled Forum This is where prices are limited to spot + 40 %, it is acheived to limiting quantities to 10 oz per month maximum, with one exception for the chap who wants to offload the monster box. The ability to trade is based on your nationality, ethnic origin and where you went on holiday in the rolling 12 month period, based on the stereotypes associated with that specific region. These stereotypes will be determined based on an annual forum poll. there - everyone should be happy !

VAT Fraud is illegal, and must not be condoned, as with all illegal activity. That aside, the market for silver is quite poor at the momemnt and clearly this is impacting emotions. In recent years the large premiums far exceeded 20% on the secondary market. Now that it is not, and in some cases turning to a discount to spot, doesn't mean that we should go round making false allegations and insinuations. As far as I understand it, people are still able to sell way above spot on here - even though there are many anecdotes about people selling even slabbed eagles below spot. It might be that the prices on the forum have to fall further, not necessirly due to the actions of one or two sellers, but because of the reaities of the market in the real world. And I'm still struggling to understand what mass migration has to do with any of this.

a "reasonable" debate where somehow mass migration from the indian subcontient has been implicated.

mate - you accuse me of confusing VAT, migrants and immigrants etc however 1) this thread (as i understand it) is about the silver secondary market 2) you seem to mix up the definitions between migrants, westerners, indians etc (what on earth has that got to do with this thread?) 3) vat registered business must include 20% vat on silver, however, if you are not vat registered, then, "you cannot apply charge VAT to your invoices even if the product or service is VAT rated. If you do, you will incur a penalty charge from HMRC." 4) the idiocy of the OP of complaining about volumes at low prices when talking about the issues of selling a monster box in one go.

i am - how the hell is immigration, or mass migration as you want to call it even tangentially involved with the OP? 🤪