Gold Monitoring Thread £ GBP only

[Barbielovesgold]

14 minutes ago, Stacktastic said:

I am getting a feeling/instinct that this person might be a stooge - am I correct or far far from the point?? 
I dont comment like this - well ever.  

You will never know 🤭 X

[James32]

29 minutes ago, stefffana said:

Yes, he is right.

If the 20% tax will apply, the second-hand market will adjust instantly gold prices, exactly how is now with silver.

If will apply tomorrow 20% VAT, one ounce of gold will be at any dealer £1536 + 20% + some @3% premium = @1900/oz.

So, on the second hand market, any ounce of gold will sell quick at a minimum of £1800, app £250 more expensive than today.

 

Bring in the vat baby 🤣🤣🤣

[RDHC]

11 minutes ago, stefffana said:

Yes, he is right.

If the 20% tax will apply, the second-hand market will adjust instantly gold prices, exactly how is now with silver.

If will apply tomorrow 20% VAT, one ounce of gold will be at any dealer £1536 + 20% + some @3% premium = @1900/oz.

So, on the second hand market, any ounce of gold will sell quick at a minimum of £1800, app £250 more expensive than today.

 

O.K. But any tax - especially if at the fairly high rate of 20% - is likely to make the market in anything more depressed, sluggish, and uncertain. That's the whole logic of free trade. I'm only a historian by training and profession, but, like many others then and since, I am impressed, for example, by the beneficial effects of the reduction in customs duties that was begun by Sir Robert Peel as Prime Minister of the great reforming government  of the 1840s. Indeed, Victorian government itself benefited because the overall British economy improved so much that it could pay overall more in tax, even at reduced levels for any particular tax, than hitherto. It's the same argument that is used by many informed commentators to contend that the increasing amounts raised by stamp duty on property sales ultimately have a malign effect on the economy as a whole.

Or, to take an example perhaps closer to the hearts of some of us on this forum, what have been the results of Coin Cabinet's imposition of a 6% surcharge on the purchasers at its auctions? I have not closely  studied the prices in question, but I have the impression that they have not improved for the vendor. I am of course open to correction on this point. 

[MancunianStacker]

18 minutes ago, RDHC said:

O.K. But any tax - especially if at the fairly high rate of 20% - is likely to make the market in anything more depressed, sluggish, and uncertain. That's the whole logic of free trade. I'm only a historian by training and profession, but, like many others then and since, I am impressed, for example, by the beneficial effects of the reduction in customs duties that was begun by Sir Robert Peel as Prime Minister of the great reforming government  of the 1840s. Indeed, Victorian government itself benefited because the overall British economy improved so much that it could pay overall more in tax, even at reduced levels for any particular tax, than hitherto. It's the same argument that is used by many informed commentators to contend that the increasing amounts raised by stamp duty on property sales ultimately have a malign effect on the economy as a whole.

Or, to take an example perhaps closer to the hearts of some of us on this forum, what have been the results of Coin Cabinet's imposition of a 6% surcharge on the purchasers at its auctions? I have not closely  studied the prices in question, but I have the impression that they have not improved for the vendor. I am of course open to correction on this point. 

Tax Free gold road trip anyone?? 🤔 

[RDHC]

1 hour ago, lst65 said:

If a retailer sells a brand new 1 oz gold coin currently at £1600 (for example) and then add VAT @ 20%, then holders of gold will look to sell at close to the £1920…? Certainly I wouldn’t sell my gold at £1600 an ounce is the price of retail is £1920. I suspect that i would for say 10% difference. In other words, split it in the middle. But as time goes by, and if the spot price rises, then the price varies? That’s my take on that…

You may well be right, but at best it would be a one-off gain for existing holders of gold, and longer-term, if my belief in the benefits of a free trade and low tax economy are correct (please see my other, recent post on this subject, above), any tax on gold sales or purchases would not be to the ultimate advantage of those that choose to invest in gold. Never mind the bureaucratic burden of having to fill in forms, make VAT returns, etc. for smaller investors, who, even if they don't qualify for VAT now, might well be susceptible in future if the current VAT exemption limit were lowered.

And, without wishing to be alarmist, I expect you all know that the levying of VAT is controlled by HMRC, and that HM's Revenue was deliberately beefed up some years ago by splicing HM's Customs onto it, and that Customs Officers have the unique power to enter and search anyone's property without a warrant. (I am led to believe that Customs Officers could, if they wished, with impunity dismantle your car, even down to the  smallest component parts of its engine, and, wherever it happened to be, simply leave you to reassemble it piece by piece, as though it were still on the factory floor, with or without the manufacturer's manual to guide you during the process, even if they found nothing illegal during the search/dismantling process.)

In other words, personally I would not welcome the return of VAT for gold sales/purchases.

 

[lst65]

7 minutes ago, RDHC said:

You may well be right, but at best it would be a one-off gain for existing holders of gold, and longer-term, if my belief in the benefits of a free trade and low tax economy are correct (please see my other, recent post on this subject, above), any tax on gold sales or purchases would not be to the ultimate advantage of those that choose to invest in gold. Never mind the bureaucratic burden of having to fill in forms, make VAT returns, etc. for smaller investors, who, even if they don't qualify for VAT now, might well be susceptible in future if the current VAT exemption limit were lowered.

And, without wishing to be alarmist, I expect you all know that the levying of VAT is controlled by HMRC, and that HM's Revenue was deliberately beefed up some years ago by splicing HM's Customs onto it, and that Customs Officers have the unique power to enter and search anyone's property without a warrant. (I am led to believe that Customs Officers could, if they wished, with impunity dismantle your car, even down to the  smallest component parts of its engine, and, wherever it happened to be, simply leave you to reassemble it piece by piece, as though it were still on the factory floor, with or without the manufacturer's manual to guide you during the process, even if they found nothing illegal during the search/dismantling process.)

In other words, personally I would not welcome the return of VAT for gold sales/purchases.

 

Amen to that - I’m agreed that it would be better to leave it as it is. However, as we know, once an asset becomes attractive for taxation, governments want their share! Let’s hope we carry on as we are. 

[ChrisSilver]

Topic put on require moderator approval whilst I can look and clean up off topic posts

[dicker]

I’m not a Chartist but would argue that 1545 is the area that Gold can’t quite get past so far in 2023.

 

[Leonmarsh]

It's a really interesting time for gold, I'm not sure whether it will drop significantly or go to the moon I think it will be all or nothing, just feels that way to me 

 

[lst65]

10 minutes ago, Leonmarsh said:

It's a really interesting time for gold, I'm not sure whether it will drop significantly or go to the moon I think it will be all or nothing, just feels that way to me 

 

There are quite a few ‘real’ economists (as opposed to social media warriors) who believe Gold will rise to near on $3,000 an ounce. But as we’ve all seen, no one really knows because world events are dictating terms. Covid, Ukraine, financial downturns and recession, blah blah blah. 🧐

[Orpster]

1 minute ago, lst65 said:

There are quite a few ‘real’ economists (as opposed to social media warriors) who believe Gold will rise to near on $3,000 an ounce. But as we’ve all seen, no one really knows because world events are dictating terms. Covid, Ukraine, financial downturns and recession, blah blah blah. 🧐

Spot does not seem to be negatively effecting demand anyway.  Stocks appear very low at dealers and anything posted on sales pages that's within 5% of spot seems to be snapped up.  Had a few messages from people I have sold to in the past asking if I have anything for sale, seems like a mad scramble at the moment.

[lst65]

1 minute ago, Orpster said:

Spot does not seem to be negatively effecting demand anyway.  Stocks appear very low at dealers and anything posted on sales pages that's within 5% of spot seems to be snapped up.  Had a few messages from people I have sold to in the past asking if I have anything for sale, seems like a mad scramble at the moment.

Definitely a lot more people, governments and businesses in the market for purchasing gold at the moment. Throw in regular stackers and enthusiasts and we have the perfect storm. Until they all sell…

[Orpster]

1 minute ago, lst65 said:

Definitely a lot more people, governments and businesses in the market for purchasing gold at the moment. Throw in regular stackers and enthusiasts and we have the perfect storm. Until they all sell…

Maybe by then we can just buy Russian oil with our gold, at 1g per barrel though would make the issue of storing bulky silver seem like child's play  

[AuricGoldfinger]

I just bought 6oz for £9500. Probably means price is going down now

[gji25]

4 hours ago, dicker said:

I’m not a Chartist but would argue that 1545 is the area that Gold can’t quite get past so far in 2023.

 

Well seeing that its only the 5th of january 2023 we still have 361 days for it to surpass £1545 

[Stacktastic]

59 minutes ago, AuricGoldfinger said:

I just bought 6oz for £9500. Probably means price is going down now

What I do know within a reasonable amount of probability is we have not seen a serious panic set off on the markets yet. 
I think thats coming this year where real panic and fear set in - which might also contain metals futures as well as miners?? 
At a guess Q3 OR 4. 

I also feel that there is a lot of disclosure coming out now & that might come to a head with some seriously incriminating stuff. 
Not just the pharmaceuticals but banking, politics you name it. I dont have have a crystal ball - just what Im getting. 

Might do the opposite mind as people run for cover. Im spending now building up some cash reserves LOL.  

Edited January 5, 2023 by Stacktastic
q3

[James32]

1 hour ago, AuricGoldfinger said:

I just bought 6oz for £9500. Probably means price is going down now

Including post I hope.

[AuricGoldfinger]

2 minutes ago, James32 said:

Including post I hope.

Sort of - it’s a private sale from someone i know - gave them a good deal as they are good to me, still works out cheaper than me buying pretty much anywhere else i can get any at the moment 

[James32]

1 minute ago, AuricGoldfinger said:

Sort of - it’s a private sale from someone i know - gave them a good deal as they are good to me, still works out cheaper than me buying pretty much anywhere else i can get any at the moment 

It's only over 3% and great overall. 

[AndrewSL76]

I have it on very, very good authority that no one actually knows what the price of gold will be in two years time, let alone tonight. 

I cannot reveal my source.

[AuricGoldfinger]

2 minutes ago, James32 said:

It's only over 3% and great overall. 

Absolutely - i just agreed I would meet him in the middle on the premium - everyone wins.

Jokes aside even if gold goes down in the short term i think this year will be a good year, and with inflation alone I don’t want to be holding onto too much cash, i want to put it into liquid assets

[Paul]

Someone's packed for the Moon we are destined to already, by the looks of it. 

(p.s. that hoover will need to be checked in, you cant take it on as hand baggage)   

[Paul]

the joys of tinkering with AI custom image creator bots  just what is possible 

[ShineyMagpie]

5 minutes ago, Paul said:

the joys of tinkering with AI custom image creator bots  just what is possible

Anyone would think your insinuating that @James32 is trying to suck up all the gold 😆

[Paul]

2 minutes ago, ShineyMagpie said:

Anyone would think your insinuating that @James32 is trying to suck up all the gold 😆