Sharing my story, buying a fake american gold eagle with royal mail losing my return parcel along any chance of getting my money back

[pillowcat2012]

Sharing my story, perhaps some of you have had similar experience that can give me solace.

In May I won an auction on eBay for a 1 Oz American Gold Eagle. Seller was legitimate, with good feedback and several other coin auctions. Item described as Gold, composition gold, described as 1 Oz Gold Eagle. Paid via PayPal.

Item arrived and it was a fake, magnetic wrong colour wrong weight. Complete misrepresentation on eBay by the seller. No problem, I'm covered, right?

I contacted the seller who said as much that he knew it was a fake despite the description and refused a refund.

I contacted PayPal who opened and closed an eBay dispute (locking me out of any action via eBay), said not to worry I am entitled to a full refund as soon as the item is returned as it's clear misrepresentation. Sent me some postage information and I went to Royal Mail to send the package back to the original address. Paid with proof of postage, next day signed for. Coin in a capsule, in cardboard, in a bubble wrapped manilla envelope totally encased in parcel tape.

Fast forward 4 weeks the parcel has not arrived. Royal Mail confirm it has been lost and offered the refund the postage cost, said that as the item is a valuable coin it is not covered by 1st class insurance. In hindsight I should have paid for special delivery.

PayPal refuse to pay as they require attempted delivery as a minimum. eBay said it's with PayPal and no further action is possible via eBay.  Seller refuses to reply to me.

All in all a big disaster and I've taken a huge financial loss. The frustrating part is PayPal's instructions for me to post an item myself where the chain of custody is then between myself and Royal Mail. I cannot open a case against the buyer on eBay as it's been closed (as PayPal have taken over) and PayPal will automatically close the case in the seller's favour as they haven't received their counterfeit item back.

PayPal said they would re-open the case if I ever become aware of a delivery attempt being made, but the delivery tracker will expire soon and the service advisor said the item has probably been destroyed and is unlikely to be either returned to me or a delivery attempt made.

Wonder if anyone else has had a similar experience, or advice? Could I contact the police about someone selling counterfeits? I have this persons name and address? He said he knows it's fake and it's my fault for not realising (despite the description).

Thanks for reading.
 

[James32]

2 hours ago, pillowcat2012 said:

Sharing my story, perhaps some of you have had similar experience that can give me solace.

In May I won an auction on eBay for a 1 Oz American Gold Eagle. Seller was legitimate, with good feedback and several other coin auctions. Item described as Gold, composition gold, described as 1 Oz Gold Eagle. Paid via PayPal.

Item arrived and it was a fake, magnetic wrong colour wrong weight. Complete misrepresentation on eBay by the seller. No problem, I'm covered, right?

I contacted the seller who said as much that he knew it was a fake despite the description and refused a refund.

I contacted PayPal who opened and closed an eBay dispute (locking me out of any action via eBay), said not to worry I am entitled to a full refund as soon as the item is returned as it's clear misrepresentation. Sent me some postage information and I went to Royal Mail to send the package back to the original address. Paid with proof of postage, next day signed for. Coin in a capsule, in cardboard, in a bubble wrapped manilla envelope totally encased in parcel tape.

Fast forward 4 weeks the parcel has not arrived. Royal Mail confirm it has been lost and offered the refund the postage cost, said that as the item is a valuable coin it is not covered by 1st class insurance. In hindsight I should have paid for special delivery.

PayPal refuse to pay as they require attempted delivery as a minimum. eBay said it's with PayPal and no further action is possible via eBay.  Seller refuses to reply to me.

All in all a big disaster and I've taken a huge financial loss. The frustrating part is PayPal's instructions for me to post an item myself where the chain of custody is then between myself and Royal Mail. I cannot open a case against the buyer on eBay as it's been closed (as PayPal have taken over) and PayPal will automatically close the case in the seller's favour as they haven't received their counterfeit item back.

PayPal said they would re-open the case if I ever become aware of a delivery attempt being made, but the delivery tracker will expire soon and the service advisor said the item has probably been destroyed and is unlikely to be either returned to me or a delivery attempt made.

Wonder if anyone else has had a similar experience, or advice? Could I contact the police about someone selling counterfeits? I have this persons name and address? He said he knows it's fake and it's my fault for not realising (despite the description).

Thanks for reading.
 

Absolute sc#mbag of the highest proportions... who you ask? All three entity's.. ebay the seller and PayPal. I'm fuming on you're behalf 😤 

You should have opened an eBay case first and foremost, hence the chain of events that unfolded. 

Secondly as you now unfortunately already know,any high ticket items must go by not just special delivery, but by full insured special delivery. 

As for the police route, there is a crime squad who deal with such things but their so back logged that honestly nothing will ever come of it. Plus you have no proof of actual counterfeit item anymore. 

Both ebay and paypal like to play one of against the other, have seen this happen over and over again.

Can I ask how much you paid for the 1oz gold eagle? 

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by James32

[pillowcat2012]

27 minutes ago, James32 said:

Absolute sc#mbag of the highest proportions... who you ask? All three entity's.. ebay the seller and PayPal. I'm fuming on you're behalf 😤 

You should have opened an eBay case first and foremost, hence the chain of events that unfolded. 

Secondly as you now unfortunately already know,any high ticket items must go by not just special delivery, but by full insured special delivery. 

As for the police route, there is a crime squad who deal with such things but their so back logged that honestly nothing will ever come of it. Plus you have no proof of actual counterfeit item anymore. 

Both ebay and pay like to play one of against the other, have seen this happen over and over again.

Can I ask how much you paid for the 1oz gold eagle? 

 

My last opportunity is to ask the seller to refund and I'll remove my negative feedback from him if he complies. But being bounded around is not fun, the poor eBay/PayPal reps didn't seem to be able to escalate and were locked into set responses.

Thankfully I've not lost £1500+ just £300 + P+P / returns or so but it really stings. I was surprised that the auction ended that low, alarm bells did ring but I thought I'm covered regardless via PayPal. I've won auctions at low prices and the seller has cancelled on me before as they realise they've not got the price the wanted, but I've also gotten some genuinely great deals from job lots / estate sales over the years where the seller isn't aware of the value.

Edited July 5, 2022 by pillowcat2012

[TeaTime]

Buying 'gold' at under spot from Ebay would put most people on red alert. Posting it back with no insurance leaves me struggling to sympathise...

I hope it all works out for you OP - if nothing else, it's a lesson learnt.  

 

[James32]

5 minutes ago, pillowcat2012 said:

just £300 + P+P

Here's the ultimate clue I'm afraid, especially on bullion... most people knew it was fake, hence low bidding.

I've seen a fair few of these type auctions and even most ( not all) the people bidding know its fake and they are bidding to sell on to another unsuspecting buyer😖

It's not nice to loose any amount of money 😕 it may not feel like it right now,but thank you're lucky stars it was not £1600, and this proves the old adage "if its too good to be true"

Honestly if you went to the police and told them..you thought it was genuine at £300 an oz,I'm not sure how they would react. 

 

[LawrenceChard]

57 minutes ago, pillowcat2012 said:

Sharing my story, perhaps some of you have had similar experience that can give me solace.

In May I won an auction on eBay for a 1 Oz American Gold Eagle. Seller was legitimate, with good feedback and several other coin auctions. Item described as Gold, composition gold, described as 1 Oz Gold Eagle. Paid via PayPal.

Item arrived and it was a fake, magnetic wrong colour wrong weight. Complete misrepresentation on eBay by the seller. No problem, I'm covered, right?

I contacted the seller who said as much that he knew it was a fake despite the description and refused a refund.

I contacted PayPal who opened and closed an eBay dispute (locking me out of any action via eBay), said not to worry I am entitled to a full refund as soon as the item is returned as it's clear misrepresentation. Sent me some postage information and I went to Royal Mail to send the package back to the original address. Paid with proof of postage, next day signed for. Coin in a capsule, in cardboard, in a bubble wrapped manilla envelope totally encased in parcel tape.

Fast forward 4 weeks the parcel has not arrived. Royal Mail confirm it has been lost and offered the refund the postage cost, said that as the item is a valuable coin it is not covered by 1st class insurance. In hindsight I should have paid for special delivery.

PayPal refuse to pay as they require attempted delivery as a minimum. eBay said it's with PayPal and no further action is possible via eBay.  Seller refuses to reply to me.

All in all a big disaster and I've taken a huge financial loss. The frustrating part is PayPal's instructions for me to post an item myself where the chain of custody is then between myself and Royal Mail. I cannot open a case against the buyer on eBay as it's been closed (as PayPal have taken over) and PayPal will automatically close the case in the seller's favour as they haven't received their counterfeit item back.

PayPal said they would re-open the case if I ever become aware of a delivery attempt being made, but the delivery tracker will expire soon and the service advisor said the item has probably been destroyed and is unlikely to be either returned to me or a delivery attempt made.

Wonder if anyone else has had a similar experience, or advice? Could I contact the police about someone selling counterfeits? I have this persons name and address? He said he knows it's fake and it's my fault for not realising (despite the description).

Thanks for reading.
 

I'm sorry to hear your story.

This first part may not help you much, but may help others:

Probably at least once a week, I say what a bad place ebay is to buy coins. IMO, ebay knows that very many of its listings are for counterfeit or replica coins, and that most of their descriptions are misleading, and almost certainly deliberately so.

I believe ebay are complicit in this fraud because they are aware of it, yet do as little as possible.

On top of that, they publish propaganda about ebay being a safe place to do business. "Shop with confidence
eBay Money Back Guarantee
Get the item you ordered or get your money back."

Perhaps you should report them to the ASA, Advertising Standards Authority.

You do need to read ebay's "Learn more" page, which is basically its "get out of jail free" card.

I strongly believe you should name the ebay seller, here and elsewhere. It may help others, and could just help you also.

Include a link to the listing, and preferably also post a screenshot here, so it will remain visible in the future, even after the ebay link is dead.

The text from the listing would also be good, including the supplier's address.

You could also publish copies of the correspondence here. It might make you feel better, and may help others in future.

I know this does not help much, but sharing your experience might be cathartic, and may help others.

🙂

 

[LawrenceChard]

15 minutes ago, pillowcat2012 said:

My last opportunity is to ask the seller to refund and I'll remove my negative feedback from him if he complies. But being bounded around is not fun, the poor eBay/PayPal reps didn't seem to be able to escalate and were locked into set responses.
 

This is a big clue as to how almost every crook on ebay still manages to have 100% positive feedback.

I donlt think anybody here would blame you if it helps to get your money back, but it is yet more evidence that ebay stinks!

😎

[Norskgeld]

If you paid by PayPal can you try claim via your credit card as I assume it is linked to your PP account?

[jackflash123]

43 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

I'm sorry to hear your story.

This first part may not help you much, but may help others:

Probably at least once a week, I say what a bad place ebay is to buy coins. IMO, ebay knows that very many of its listings are for counterfeit or replica coins, and that most of their descriptions are misleading, and almost certainly deliberately so.

I believe ebay are complicit in this fraud because they are aware of it, yet do as little as possible.

On top of that, they publish propaganda about ebay being a safe place to do business. "Shop with confidence
eBay Money Back Guarantee
Get the item you ordered or get your money back."

Perhaps you should report them to the ASA, Advertising Standards Authority.

You do need to read ebay's "Learn more" page, which is basically its "get out of jail free" card.

I strongly believe you should name the ebay seller, here and elsewhere. It may help others, and could just help you also.

Include a link to the listing, and preferably also post a screenshot here, so it will remain visible in the future, even after the ebay link is dead.

The text from the listing would also be good, including the supplier's address.

You could also publish copies of the correspondence here. It might make you feel better, and may help others in future.

I know this does not help much, but sharing your experience might be cathartic, and may help others.

🙂

 

Name and shame that piece of 💩 of a human being. Lawrence is correct about posting info of the seller here, in the hopes of preventing others from being scammed.

I hope they get what's coming to them, I'm a believer in "what goes around comes around". Karma!

Glad you didn't lose the value of a full oz of gold but £300 still stings and if it was me I'd also be fuming as others have stated.

Maybe just give them the negative feedback they deserve? It's unlikely they will send you a refund just to prevent you from doing so. It's obvious they have no morals whatsoever and don't care about who they scam.

It's a shame that decent honest hardworking folk have to tolerate scumbags like that. Hope that missing parcel turns up 🤞

I've just read your post again and I see you already gave negative feedback 👍

Edited July 5, 2022 by jackflash123
New info

[pricha]

With respect you paid £300 for 1oz of gold ? I'm guessing your bid was the last and stopped at £300 ? In that case I wouldn't have paid. I would have expected nothing other than a fake coin to be sent. He could leave negative feedback I wouldn't care. 

[HerefordBullyun]

I feel sorry for the Op.

But this exactly why I don't buy items of value on ebay......

[pricha]

I'd write it off as lesson learnt.  Never use PayPal as there's no point since they spilt with eBay.  Having two options to claim just makes things complicated. Always use Specail Delivery and pay for the extra insurance if item is over £500 . Don't even buy from eBay such high value coins, and certainly not for ridiculously low price . 

Edited July 5, 2022 by pricha

[HerefordBullyun]

1 minute ago, pricha said:

I'd writeit off as lesson learnt.  Never use PayPal as there's no point since they spilt with eBay.  Having two options to claim just makes things complicated. Always use Specail Delivery and pay for the extra insurance if item is over £500 . Don't even buy from eBay such high value coins, and certainly not for ridiculously low price . 

The old saying is if its too good to be true it probably is.

[dicker]

Points above are all well made. Especially @LawrenceChard’s point around crooks selling counterfeits on eBay yet still having 100% positive feedback.  

I do often wonder how many people take eBay to the small claims court.

Would be worth it and I suspect they would just settle.  

[LawrenceChard]

10 minutes ago, dicker said:

Points above are all well made. Especially @LawrenceChard’s point around crooks selling counterfeits on eBay yet still having 100% positive feedback.  

I do often wonder how many people take eBay to the small claims court.

Would be worth it and I suspect they would just settle.  

It would be great to see it happen!

An adverse ASA ruling would possibly be even better!

😎

[Ukbullionfan]

This is awful. I never trust eBay with auctions on precious metals. Didn’t alarm bells ring when you saw it for such a low amount ? Why don’t you just turn up with some heavies to the address lol ! 
 

Report to action fraud. It will help for other potential victims of this scammer. You should name and Shame them too. 
 

Did you pay with credit card ? 
 

I hope you get it sorted, I’ve learnt that this forum is the place to be for buying and selling. It beats eBay every day of the week. 
 

 

[CollectForFun]

3 hours ago, pillowcat2012 said:

Fast forward 4 weeks the parcel has not arrived. Royal Mail confirm it has been lost and offered the refund the postage cost, said that as the item is a valuable coin it is not covered by 1st class insurance. In hindsight I should have paid for special delivery.

Does it make any difference to the bolded when the item was not in fact "a valuable coin" but just a random object worth £300?

[TheShinyStuff]

I have a modicum of sympathy for the OP, but not a lot. 

Ebay I haven't used for years, it is a minefield, but the actions of the seller are still inexcusable.

However... the OP had hoped he/she had bought an AGE for £300, knowing its true value was much more. A bargain is one thing, but come on... Getting it for £1475 or so would have been a steal, but £300 - did they really expect a seller to take a £1200 hit and just shrug it off? 

Also winning the auction at £300 should have put the brakes on any transaction in the first place. No one is giving away an ounce of gold for £300. No-one.

Finally, not using the proper insured delivery to return was criminal.  As is the refusal of any party to accept their part in the whole sorry debacle.

Moral of the story, don't buy £300 AGEs from ebay...

[Ukbullionfan]

Maybe OP is trolling this and this is a fugazi ✌️

[Abyss]

Shame because bought royal mint fake coin on eBay with £ domination this would be considered counterfeit currency and you would be able to report issue as such. You can still file a report using the link but I am unsure how far it would progress..

https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/reporting-fraud-and-cyber-crime

I have lost £150 when I sold Silver several years ago on eBay sent via recorded signed for delivery lost in the mail. Been an occasional bought 1 oz Gold from American reputable dealer for £120 but this accidental pricing mistake and the dealer refused to send out the coin and instead refunded my purchase.

eBay powerful platform and attracts more eyeballs than any other place but have to be safe and know pros and cons dealing on such a platform. 

[GoldDiggerDave]

We all end up paying for our numismatic education and ultimately  you need to ask yourself have you learned anything?

1, I would never buy or sell  PM's on eBay  too many scumbags 

2, I would never send PM's without using Royal Mail special delivery.

3, buying PM's well under market value has to set off alarm bells, £300 for 1oz of gold?  come on mate I'm trying to be open minded and show some empathy but you are making it very hard.    

4, what ever you do don't buy magic beans if anyone is selling  those on eBay.

As painful as this situation is you have bought a £300 bargain,  as it has saved you a fortune in the longterm as you will be far better educated though your experience.  Ever touched a hot stove as a kid?  You don't do it again and I bet if you had you still can remember the pain.   

 

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by GoldDiggerDave

[Roy]

Serves you right, you were a greedy chancer who thought he could buy an ounce of gold for £300. Doh!

Why did you join the forum, have you not read all the scam stories from eBay?

DYOR! 

Now, the big question is why are you protecting the seller? I'd be posting everything relating to this transaction.

You have his address!? Will it cost you less than £300 to travel there...a 'boys' road trip' maybe?

[Zhorro]

11 hours ago, pillowcat2012 said:

Item arrived and it was a fake, magnetic wrong colour wrong weight. Complete misrepresentation on eBay by the seller. No problem, I'm covered, right?

I contacted the seller who said as much that he knew it was a fake despite the description and refused a refund.

Can we see a picture of the coin?  If the seller thought it was a fake, the price of £300 would seem like others also thought it was a fake.

The problem with "signed for" delivery is that it merely highlights that the item may contain something worth stealing - and there is no extra security around its transit.  It records an item going into the postal system and hopefully the delivery of the item - that is all.  With Special Delivery an item is tracked throughout its postal journey and there is a lot more security regarding it handling.

[pillowcat2012]

Thanks for all your comments, please realise I'm fully aware of what I was getting into with both myself and the seller thinking we've each got a great deal.

I agree with all the points and I'm feeling sorry for myself (but you don't have to). I've posted here as a warning to others not to be as foolish as me!

I think I am highlighting the fact that I foolishly though I was bulletproof via PayPal/eBay. I was the weakest link in the chain and I bungled the return but surprised that eBay/PayPal would not go above and beyond to protect me.

I didn't even want an AGE I just thought why not try and see what happens. I've seen sovereigns just listed as "old gold coin" due to uninformed sellers and I was looking to take advantage of this. Yes, yes, not very nice.

I blame myself for being naïve/greedy. I thought I had zero risk due to PayPal/eBay and if it wasn't genuine (which it likely was at that price and... going by the poor quality photos...) then I just get a return and no problem. The lynchpin I was hoping to get out of it all was that the seller had listed it clearly as gold. Which is against eBay/PayPal trading policy. I am just astounded that RM bloody lost the parcel which foiled my plan.

Here's the seller, he's selling some jewellery and Umicore gold bars. I'd avoid this person, who knows if his other items are genuine or not.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265763887847?hash=item3de0c31ae7:g:~tUAAOSwirpitu4F

All in all, a very valuable lesson and I've got a story to share with the community. Alarm bells ringing all over the place but doubling down is not a good plan.

I've attached some photos to complete this sad debacle.

[jackflash123]

10 minutes ago, pillowcat2012 said:

Thanks for all your comments, please realise I'm fully aware of what I was getting into with both myself and the seller thinking we've each got a great deal.

I agree with all the points and I'm feeling sorry for myself (but you don't have to). I've posted here as a warning to others not to be as foolish as me!

I think I am highlighting the fact that I foolishly though I was bulletproof via PayPal/eBay. I was the weakest link in the chain and I bungled the return but surprised that eBay/PayPal would not go above and beyond to protect me.

I didn't even want an AGE I just thought why not try and see what happens. I've seen sovereigns just listed as "old gold coin" due to uninformed sellers and I was looking to take advantage of this. Yes, yes, not very nice.

I blame myself for being naïve/greedy. I thought I had zero risk due to PayPal/eBay and if it wasn't genuine (which it likely was at that price and... going by the poor quality photos...) then I just get a return and no problem. The lynchpin I was hoping to get out of it all was that the seller had listed it clearly as gold. Which is against eBay/PayPal trading policy. I am just astounded that RM bloody lost the parcel which foiled my plan.

Here's the seller, he's selling some jewellery and Umicore gold bars. I'd avoid this person, who knows if his other items are genuine or not.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265763887847?hash=item3de0c31ae7:g:~tUAAOSwirpitu4F

All in all, a very valuable lesson and I've got a story to share with the community. Alarm bells ringing all over the place but doubling down is not a good plan.

I've attached some photos to complete this sad debacle.

Great to see you posting this. I didn't spot the sellers name, is it shown but I missed it? It does say "A seller you've bought from'. 

If I've missed the sellers name please let me know where it is.

Maybe take a screenshot of their seller profile too.

👍