lubi29

All prices are set for items or services. By the people buying the items or services!
Would @Chards be in business if people stopped paying chards their asking price? Of course not!  @Chardsis charging what they think their market will accept.
What the sellers want is a huge dose of FOMO so you will just pay what they want.
The price of a house in an area will be set, the price of a tv will be set, the price of a bag of chips will be set and an oz of your favorite precious metal will be set!
Is it rigged? Yes but by you as you are the one paying the set price. I have a long list of gold coins many of which are freely available at a price i just won't go to, Will i ever buy them? Yes, but only when i think the price point is right! I don't buy on availability and i know spot price is a made up number. I believe that spot price is a made up sum of money that a big cabal of financial institutions and the powerful families want to conduct their business at and not at the real value of the precious metal. Diamond price is fixed/inflated by the powerful too. If all the mined diamonds that have been mined hit the market all at once coal would be more expensive!
If anyone thinks that all the gold and precious metals that is produced is sold then i would call them out. Once a certain level of profit is made the rest will be stored to "protect the investment" and sold on to a shell company for storage to be sold on at a later date when more profit can be made.
 

A very good morning all! Today I received this lovely proof half sovereign for bullion price from  @BullionMan89

I had this one turn up for the kids stack

Lovely Yale of Beaufort Tudor beasts arrived this morning great to have the first two bullion beasts together 🤩

UPDATE...
After the seller fired a fair few emails in all directions,to the generous advice/responses on here, things have taken a very positive turn. 
Royal mail have magically located the parcel, opened it just now and confirmed its just a coin ( unless they 3D printed a new 1/2 oz gold special reverse Britannia ) I guess the being destroyed line was codswallop. Coin will be returned to seller ASAP thankfully. 
A massive thank you to everyone who Offered help and email addresses etc. Perseverance pays off!
A special mention to the member who reached out by private message and generously donated time and effort 😊 
@arphethean @richatthecroft @AndrewSL76 @BackyardBullion @pricha @DuncanWylieWilson and everyone that commented, a big thank you.

"Pistrucci - Waterloo Medal" could be a contender given the history & controversy behind it maybe?
Think we would all agree in gold will be something to behold 

Waterloo Medal The problem with Pistrucci was not just his fiery temperament and his bitterness at not being appointed Chief Engraver when, as he insisted, the post had been promised to him by William Wellesley Pole.
There was also the long-standing difficulty caused by a large commemorative medal for the Battle of Waterloo, officially commissioned from Pistrucci for presentation to, among others, the allied sovereigns who had been victorious in defeating Napoleon.
Pistrucci had conceived the medal on the grandest scale and his progress was slow – and deliberately so since he feared that, having put himself beyond the pale by his obstinate behaviour, the Royal Mint would sever its association with him as soon as he handed over the dies.
 
Completion of the dies The work dragged on and, having invested so much money in the ‘coming wonder’, successive Masters of the Mint felt obliged to encourage the argumentative and dilatory Pistrucci to complete the dies. Years passed and eventually, in 1849, Pistrucci was able to hand over the completed dies.
These unfortunately were so large that they could not be hardened and the outcome of a project that had begun 30 years before was that no medals could be struck.
The dies survive and undoubtedly represent a triumph of medallic art and a masterpiece of engraving skill.
With their completion Pistrucci’s association with the Royal Mint finally came to an end and he died at Englefield Green, near Windsor, in 1855.
Source: https://www.royalmintmuseum.org.uk/journal/people/benedetto-pistrucci/

Has anyone seen this? Presumably only for US citizens though haven’t looked into it. Looks interesting.
https://thebullioncard.apmex.com

This post isn’t sponsored and Apmex have not asked me to post it, I just thought that it looked interesting so sharing. 


 

There other standard cash back cards that offer 1% in the U.K. I won’t mention those here as they are more suited for the non PM section of the forum.

For the Apmex bullion card specifically, what are your thoughts on it? Are there any US members that will be getting one?

Premiums could be +100%but  if dealers have no inventory to sell at all it doesn't matter you still not getting your gold at 3% or +100%
Waiting for that mega drop in price to Hoover everything cheap simply doesn't happen in reality.
Just buy little and often every month. And net result you'll have +MORE gold than you did have the month previous. Win win 
The price is only really every relevant when you exit your position and sell.
If you don't plan to sell at all or for 20+years  Is it really a worry and extra fiver paid per sov today ???
 
 

Rabbits running round the room!
Our first delivery of 2023 Australia Perth Mint Rabbits arrived recently. These are the bullion versions in silver and gold, in some sizes:

As most TSF members already know, every size of the silver bullion coins has the same reverse design. The only design difference is the denomination and weight shown on the obverse:

Here is a Gold one:

and the obverse:

I like both gold and silver versions, but I note that most TSF members seem to prefer the silver design.
😎

If you were to say to the average Joe on the street "put your wealth somewhere safe" they would have a clue. I think the majority will just wait for cbdc and toe the line, and that's all they need. We have just witnessed what just happened with the vaccinations. The whole thing policed itself to the point it was socially unacceptable not to toe the line with the masses. The same will be with cbdc, "it's the greater good of the nation".

1872 is one of the easier years to find, so you should be able to get one in a decent grade for a lower cost than for some other years.
£100 for a VF example (UK grading) from a dealer is probably about right, possibly slightly over book price but not too much.  £100 is definitely too much for a Fine example.
I have an 1852 gothic florin which could potentially be for sale.  Grade wise I would say it's EF but has probably been lightly cleaned.  I bought it from a reputable dealer about 7 years ago, I now have two other gothic florins which I will keep.
 

What a mess! Out of interest I searched for more information and I can tell you this can become interesting if the authorities decide to apply a hard line in terms of the past periods and start assessing additional VAT to the dealers for previous years. But I hope they will be more lenient towards the past, but in any case, the loophole seems to be definitely closed for the future.
For those interested in the detailed background, I summarise below the respective legislation including the links to the underlying documents (sorry for long post!|:
According to the German VAT Act, reduced 7% VAT can be applied to several categories of goods, which are listed in Annex 2 to the VAT Act. Collectors' items ("Sammlungsstücke") are covered by Point 54 of this Annex. According to letter c) paragraph cc) of that point, coins and medals made of precious metals qualify as collectors' items if their price (excl. VAT) exceeds 250% of the metal value. According to Article 12 paragraph 2 point 12 of the German VAT Act, reduced rate on the above items specified in Point 54 of Annex 2 shall be applied only on importation of goods, i.e. not on domestic or intra-community transactions. This is in accordance with the EU VAT Directive which does not allow applying reduced VAT rate on collectors' items in general, but only on imports. So far so good. The German Ministry of Finance issued a letter on 5 August 2004 detailing application of reduced VAT rates. This letter starts with the following introduction: "With reference to the result of the discussions with the highest tax authorities of the federal states, the following applies to the application of the reduced tax rate to sales of items specified in Appendix 2 of the UStG carried out after July 30, 2004:". So this letter pretends to be quite an official interpretation of the law, as I see it. Silver coins are covered by line 174 point 2 of that letter and this is where it becomes really interesting, as this letter literally says that "The reduced tax rate can be applied to sales of silver coins that are not included in the list attached to this letter without the need for a valuation.". So it's pretty simple - silver coin not in the list? Then reduced VAT rate applies irrespective of the premium. And if the coin is in the list? "The sales of the silver coins listed in the attachment are regularly subject to the standard tax rate. However, the entrepreneur can claim the reduced tax rate for those coins if he can prove that the requirements are met in the individual case. The list of silver coins subject to the general tax rate is regularly reviewed and adjusted as necessary. Any changes to the list will be announced separately.". So the coins listed in the attachment must be tested for price against the metal content value. And so which are those coins which do not qualify for automatic VAT reduction according to the letter of 2004? They are listed in the attachment to that letter and curiously, include only various "junk" silver coins from the 20th century and Maria Theresia Taler, but no bullion coins. Was this list ever updated? I don't know but I did not find any update. I found that in 2014 the Ministry confirmed that the 2004 list still applies. Maybe in 2004 the Ministry did not feel the need to include bullion silver coins as the market was not as widespread and afterwards they just omitted to update the list? Or was there any other reasoning behind which coins are included and which not? And finally, we are now in 2022 when the same Ministry of Finance issued a new letter dated 27 September 2022 in which they just say that "The regulations of the letter of August 5, 2004 led to practical application that the reduced tax rate was applied on some silver coins, although the statutory conditions were not met. The regulations mentioned there are therefore no longer applicable. The regulations of this new letter are to be applied in all open cases.". So what this all means? Basically, in 2004, the Ministry of Finance interpreted the law in such a way that they extended the legal definition of silver coins which qualified for reduced VAT rate on import from >250% items to any silver coins not in the list, whereas the list contained for investors only not very relevant silver coins. This interpretation was arguably followed by the German customs authorities and therefore silver bullion coins could have been imported to Germany with 7% reduced VAT. In 2022 the Ministry suddenly woke up and realised that their interpretation went beyond the law so reversed it and confirmed that 7% may apply only to >250% collectors' items.
This is however not the end of the story, because in order to benefit from the loophole, the dealers had to first import the coins with 7% VAT and then apply the differential taxation in order to avoid taxing the whole value of the coins by 19%. According to article 25a of the German VAT Act, the differential taxation can be applied by resellers of the collectors' items. As was shown above, collectors' items are defined as coins >250% premium. The 2004 letter scratched this requirement but in my understanding, only in respect of the application of reduced VAT rate, so the letter did not re-define the collectors' items for other purposes, such as the application of the differential taxation. Or is there any other method whereby German dealers could have applied differential taxation on new bullion silver coins?
So as I see it, the dealers had every right to rely on the 2004 letter from the Ministry and import silver bullion coins with 7% VAT on them. But I am not so sure they were able to sell these coins under the differential taxation scheme, even while that 2004 letter was in force... In any case, gone are the times of cheap silver bullion from Germany and the it will be interesting to follow further development and how much the dealers will be investigated for the past sales...

Oooh, there are a lot of ghosts haunting German silverland right now. I'm no expert, but I'll try to summarise the situation in simple terms. Since 2014, 19% VAT has also applied to silver coins in Germany, apart from collector coins, and not only to silver medals, silver bars, etc. The VAT on silver collector coins has been left at 7%. However, there was, or is, an exemption as a transitional solution, the differential taxation. This means that traders only have to pay 19% on their purchase/sale difference to the tax office and do not have to show any sum on the invoice. A week ago on Friday, traders received a letter by e-mail from the Federal Ministry of Finance stating that the differential taxation is no longer valid. In this video you can see the letter, I got the link from the German silver forum:
https://youtube.com/shorts/zVju95lYf6w?feature=share
I don't know the channel, one of the two is the operator of a relatively well-known online shop. Apparently there is no legal regulation for this yet and nobody knows what is valid and from when. On the same evening, almost all dealers raised their prices by around 20/30%, but still almost all show the margin scheme. The biggest problem for me as a customer, however, will be the dealer purchase prices in the future, if they cannot settle them with the margin scheme. Then we will also get such miserable dealer purchase prices, like you in the UK. If we stay at 60/70% premium for simple silver bullion, the subject of investment silver is finished for me. Luckily I already have 3 Britannias, so that will have to be enough for me. All coins that cost at least 250% above spot are considered collector coins and will continue to be taxed at 7%. They are expensive enough anyway.
I think all loopholes in Germany are simply being plugged now. I heard they need money. And since all dealers have used the exemption for almost every coin, it was only a matter of time before it was suspended. It's almost a miracle that it was, or is, valid for almost 9 years.

Tudor black bay 58 
New never worn bought second hand for 800 under retail bit of a bargain to go with my Cartier tank 

Had this little beaut come in today.... There was a pride of them in fact but I had to find them a new home but kept this one. I think I'll name it Jeff.

Many people may not realize this, but where QE II’s Royal Cypher and Coat of Arms used a depiction of St. Edward’s Crown, KC III’s Cypher (which was revealed a few weeks ago) uses the Tudor Crown. This is expected to be used on the Royal Coat of Arms for the King’s reign.
Hence the 2023 Sovereign will have this very subtle but important change from the 2022 Sovereign.
Ref: https://www.royal.uk/his-majesty-kings-cypher
and
https://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/news-grants/news/item/205-royal-cypher

I am collecting the TB's in 2 & 10oz silver and 1/4oz gold, given they are a few quid more than their equivalent Britannia's I do not see the down side
If they do well, great, if not they give a bit more variety and interest to the stack.  Best case scenario would be they are not popular until the last few coins making the early ones, especially the Lion and Yale with the Queens head on them, more popular and worth an extra premium.  If not, they are still worth their weight in gold/silver and likely a small premium of Britannia's just because they are CGT coins that are not Britannia's.  Even the series' s which did not do well command a bit more than Brits so will be hard to lose really

2023 Silver Yale of Beaufort Two Ounce Bullion Coin - Photos

Reverse above, and...

Obverse...
and...

A few monster boxes of them lurking behind some one ounce gold Royal Mint Britannia Bars
😎
 

Just a bit a coin po rn! @Mtaybar

2023 Bullion Britannias Due Out Soon? Queen Elizabeth II Portrait? - Clues and Guesses
This month we, @ChardsCoinandBullionDealer, only received an allocation of 10,000 x 2022 silver Britannias, compared with 20,000 in recent months. If given a choice, we would probably have elected for 30,000 instead.
Is this significant?
Also we have not been able to buy more 2022 gold Britannias for the past few weeks, after receiving almost whatever quantities we wanted.
Is this significant?
While the first of these two events might have merely reflected international demand, and some "rationing" the second event seems to have only one obvious explanation. There must be an imminent change.
I must admit that I do not know the exact dates last year when any of the one ounce bullion Britannias were released, but I seem to remember October being mentioned somewhere, probably on TSF.
When I wrote this 
last week, I wrote this:
2022 Bullion Issues
As with circulation coins, we expect gold, silver, and platinum bullion coin issues to continue with QEII portrait and titles, at least until the year end, and probably into early 2023. This will include Britannias and sovereigns.
If I had been correct, there would be no good reason for us to be unable to place further orders for them. Therefore, the explanation must be different.
My new theory is therefore that 2023 dated gold and silver Britannias must be due out very soon, probably during October. As it is extremely unlikely that these will have King Charles III on them, they must still be Queen Elizabeth II.
Now, what about sovereigns?
Again, I don't remember the exact issued dates for last year (2022!), but I think it may have been January, in which case, I would expect that the 2023's will also be issued in January. By then, the Royal Mint will have had a good three months to get approval for new designs, mainly new a new portrait of King Charles, so I expect the 2023 gold sovereigns will be in his name.
We are aware of a slight delay before we can obtain more 2022 bullion sovereigns, but we recently received 1,500 which we had ordered a week or two ago, so our current stock may last until we can get more.
As the gold sovereign is regarded as the Royal Mint's flagship coin, I believe that it may be one of the first coin denominations to receive the new King's portrait, and also that it is such an important symbolic and iconic coin, that to issue it with Charles' portrait dated 2022 would be almost unthinkable, yet the Mint will surely wish it to be in the vanguard of his issues.
It will be worth keeping a keen eye on the London Gazette for Privy Council announcements or proclamations of new coin designs, which should lend more certainty to my theories and guesswork.
Unitl the, if anyone can confirm any of the above, or correct me, please post your responses here.
And, in the likely event that anyone sees any relevant London Gazette Privy Council notices, please let us all know.
😎
 

2022 2023 UK Coins Queen Elizabeth II King Charles III Changeover Forecast Résumé
In the absence of any meaningful information from the Royal Mint, I will attempt to summarise the most likely situation for UK coins:
2022 Circulation Issues
All normal circulation issues of coins will continue to be for QEII and dated 2022 until at least the end of the year (2022), and are likely to continue in production and issues into January 2023 or later. This is standard practice at most mints worldwide.
2022 Bullion Issues
As with circulation coins, we expect gold, silver, and platinum bullion coin issues to continue with QEII portrait and titles, at least until the year end, and probably into early 2023. This will include Britannias and sovereigns.
2022 Commemorative Issues
This is slighly more difficult to forecast. Most commemorative coins which have already been approved (by The Privy Council) will be dated 2022 and have the queen's portrait. There may be some other commemorative coin issues which have been planned, but not approved. Whether these will gain approval is uncertain, but there is no real reason they should not be.
2023 King Charles Coins
The adoption of a new portrait for Charles is likely to be a lengthy process. The Royal Mint are likely to create a shortlist of potential portraits based on photographs, paintings, or sculpture. The RM is assisted by The Royal Mint Advisory Committee. Potential portraits will need to be approved by H.M. King Charles, and the Privy Council. Once designs are approved, then "masters" will be prepared, followed by dies. All stages are likely to be subject to approval. The earliest likely date for release would be 1st January 2023.
2023 Circulation Issues
It is almost certain that no 2023 circulation coins will be produced of issued with the queen's portrait and titles.
All 2023 dated circulation will be be in the name of King Charles II, and bear his portrait.
We could see these start to enter circulation as early as January 2023, but it could be later in the year.
2023 Bullion Issues
Subject to the approval process outlined above, it is possible that precious metal bullion issues could commence for Charles III dated 2023, as early as January, although it could be later.
2023 Commemorative Issues - QEII
Most TSF members will already be aware that two 2023 commemorative issues have already been released with the queens portrait and titles, with a third one imminent. There may be a small number of other issues which have already received approval, and that will therefore be issued as planned, however some may be delayed, cancelled, or changed.
2023 Commemorative Issues - Charles III
It is certain that most 2023 UK commemorative coin issues will be in the name of our new king, Charles III. As with most commemoratives, these will be issued throughout  the year. The earliest could be as early as January 2023, but might be delayed.
It is possible that 2023 mint and proof coins sets could be issued in the last months of 2022, but this remains uncertain at best.
2023 Commemorative Issues - Charles III QEII Memorial
It is certain that the RM will produce a range of memorial or Celebration of Life commemorative coins for Queen Elizabeth II, dated 2023, and bearing King Charles III portrait on the obverse.
While these could be issued as early as January, I think it likely that these will follow later. They are almost certain to precede the Coronation.
2023 King Charles III Coronation Issues 
I had originally omitted this. It must be too early to guess when King Charles Coronation will take place, but undaunted I will take a stab at June. When it occurs, there are sure to be a proliferation of commemorative coin issues by the UK, and other countries including the Commonwealth. It seems highly likely that QEII Memorial issues will precede any Coronation ones.
Omissions
Please let me know if you think I have missed anything out.
😎

Draft about the 2023 panda silver coin not so sure if it could be the final one but it looks very cute  
 
ENJOY
 

I guess you are referring the the bullion versions of both.
Do you guys feel the 2022 Jubilee Sovereign will hold a premium in the future due to the sad passing of the Queen?
Yes, a slight premium compared with most definitive years, because of type collecting.
Also do you feel the 2023 Charles III Sovereign will hold a premium in the future due to it being the first of the new King?
While this is usually good interest and demand for the first coin of each new monarch or design, this is usually at its greatest at the time, then dwindles to some extent over time.
An example might be 1887 Queen Victoria Jubilee Head sovereigns. this was the first year of the design for her Golden Jubilee, and still the most popular date. Fortunately, especially with the London Mint issue, lots of people stashed one or morw away at the time, so that they still tend to turn up in minty condition more than other jubilee heads, or other mints.
I also guess you are asking because you are thinking of buying one or both.
If you like them go ahead and buy one of each. As long as you don't stampede into paying a stupid price / premium for them, they should be a good investment.
the 2022 gold double sovereign will also be about 100 times rarer.
Did anybody mention they are on a special TSF free postage offer from a well-known Blackpool bullion dealer?
Buy one before they sell out, and you might also win a 2022 gold sovereign, which would definitely be a good investment!
😎

I may divide opinion posting this, but I think I feel as many others do on this forum, despite the news as of late, that today’s news has been a shock.
This is a huge shock, albeit expected, given HM The Queens ageing years. She’s the only monarch that those under 70 years old has known.
I’ve read some not so many dislikable and distasteful comments on the forum today.
But, I think, no matter what one’s own option is that HM The Queen has given so much to all of us. A duty to the end.
But above all she was a mother, grandmother and a great-grandmother mother.
I’ve looked in and out of the forum this afternoon and this evening. But no matter wether you’re a modern stacker, an old stacker, a collector of Gillick sovereigns or modern releases, be that the Tudor Beast’s or The Monarchs collection with Edward VII resale imminent.
Many people, like myself of this country and also most people of the forum, feel a ‘shift’, a change, has happened today. Within a day a changing of the guard as it were.
HM The Queen’s passing is a great loss to our country of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
I wasn’t sure wether to share this with the the wider forum but I will, as I feel I’m mostly amongst friends, but HM The Queen awarded my grandfather with his MBE some 20 years ago.
It was the happiest day of my grandfathers life.
He said to me “She was gracious, warm, kind and showed an interest in my achievement at the same time.”
We are at the end of an era. Regardless of what we collect or stack, we are at the end of a remarkable era.
I watched the news today, as many others did, the announcement of HM The Queen’s passing and I’m not ashamed to say, I shed a tear when the news was announced.
But, albeit a fictional character, Padding Bear had the right words for HM The Queen’s reign at her Platinum Jubilee in one sentence “Thank you Ma’am, for everything”.
Lastly, I’ll leave this photograph of HM The Queen.
How beautiful she looked. How beautiful she’ll remain.
This is very odd to write on the forum, but here goes.
GOD SAVE THE KING.
 

Been having a browse on the biggest grossing Great British gold coins on Heritage sales over the years
https://coins.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?Nty=1&Ntk=SI_Titles&Ns=Price|1&N=790+231+51&Ntt=great+britain&ic4=SortBy-071515
There may be some strong contenders for the next one on the Great Engravers series 
Found the Petition Crown in gold 
 
Wyons 1893 "pattern" sovereign
 


 
Maybe they may recreate one of the stunning large gold pattern crowns ?