2020 Una and the Lion

[Frenchie]

10 minutes ago, Paul said:

I think the very lower amount that have resurfaced in the secondary market for flipping speaks volumes & is very encouraging, just two from private sellers. 

One was withdrawn and now this one listed today

Both priced over well over 100%+ the list price.

Still no concrete 100% confirmed paid for sales

I think those who have bought the gold Una are planning to hold or recognise what its potential 'may' be in years to come, which is why so few have appeared for quick profit flipping

Getting anyone to part with £4k on a whim or a hunch is a hard sell

I have no intention of selling mine as i recognise what it 'may' be worth in years/decades to come. As @Roy says a 'blue chip' investment.  It will probably never happen but there is no reason why this cant be worth as much as the original issue from the 1840s as it is half the mintage, guaranteed to be MS69/MS70 condition as no one will be handling them. If none ever come to market but demand is there, it will only push prices up

Its never going to be a coin that sells for melt. 

It has everything going for it, aside from price £ 

I'm keen to see what the next in the series is, what it sells for, same mintage ? etc.  The next coin if it is as nice (ie gothic crown) may make the series far more desirable and add to Una's appeal

 

Think that a lot of coins have not been shipped due to defective striking quality.  As mentioned earlier, the coin connection told me that they have already rejected a first batch and even expect to get their coins in January. I  myself ordered the gold  from the RM, and my order is still not shipped. You probably have been lucky to get your coin early, and without   quality issue

[Oldun]

9 hours ago, Melon said:

What's dipping? 😮

Dipping in acid but it would damage the coin. Check before buying as best you can if buying on the secondary market. If an unsuspecting buyer gets one of these dipped coins and sends it for grading, they will end up with a “cleaned” grading, so basically useless.

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Oldun

[goldmember44]

Think of it like this... there's only a little over 200 of these exclusive coins in existence.... and since it's literally the flagship modern gold coin of its time, apparently, with likely strong demand from many rich people who have interest in coins...it would only be the elite of the elite who manage to get one in their ownership. Therefore it's no wonder why crazy prices are being asked for them...it is now basically a status symbol to own one. So..congrats if you were quick enough to buy one!

[richatthecroft]

7 minutes ago, goldmember44 said:

So..congrats if you were quick enough to buy one!

I think this this is your key point here.

Not just for the elite- anyone with a credit card in hand could of pulled the trigger- if they were quick enough- and (now in hindsight) could have flipped and made a quick buck.  

I did seriously consider purchasing- but I would have had to flip a few coins to fund it.  It was a stick or twist for me- I chose to stick with multiple beautiful coins rather than one thing of beauty. 

This was a brave purchase for some- and well done to those who bit the bullet. 

 

 

[Melon]

5 minutes ago, goldmember44 said:

Think of it like this... there's only a little over 200 of these exclusive coins in existence.... and since it's literally the flagship modern gold coin of its time, apparently, with likely strong demand from many rich people who have interest in coins...it would only be the elite of the elite who manage to get one in their ownership. Therefore it's no wonder why crazy prices are being asked for them...it is now basically a status symbol to own one. So..congrats if you were quick enough to buy one!

Open question - how has this been established as the flagship modern gold coin of it's time? Seems a jump given it's been out like a week and hardly anyone owns it. 

I hope people don't get carried away in a wave of speculation. Sounds like lots of coins while sold haven't actually been sent out yet and therefore haven't hit the market, and also sounds like a fair amount of speculation on this being the next 'series to have'. I don't doubt peoples money is safe on this one at RRP, but I wouldn't want to be the first person to go and pay double RRP on it to be honest. People can ask whatever price they want, do we have evidence of people actively buying at these high numbers? 

Context - I know literally nothing about numismatics so I may be talking utter nonsense 😂 Just seems odd to me that someone can produce a coin today, say it's limited to 225, and suddenly it's not only selling at double spot price retail, but also then reselling allegedly for 4-6 times spot! 😮

[Paul]

8 minutes ago, Melon said:

Open question - how has this been established as the flagship modern gold coin of it's time? Seems a jump given it's been out like a week and hardly anyone owns it. 

I hope people don't get carried away in a wave of speculation. Sounds like lots of coins while sold haven't actually been sent out yet and therefore haven't hit the market, and also sounds like a fair amount of speculation on this being the next 'series to have'. I don't doubt peoples money is safe on this one at RRP, but I wouldn't want to be the first person to go and pay double RRP on it to be honest. People can ask whatever price they want, do we have evidence of people actively buying at these high numbers? 

Context - I know literally nothing about numismatics so I may be talking utter nonsense 😂 Just seems odd to me that someone can produce a coin today, say it's limited to 225, and suddenly it's not only selling at double spot price retail, but also then reselling allegedly for 4-6 times spot! 😮

You are right it is all speculation at the moment - who knows where it will settle in price. Im just happy to have one and  happy with the price of £4k 

But factors in its favour are, when the original issue of the coin has more than double the mintage - has 140+ years history & sales with it - the design is extacly the same - and the original issue coin sold for for around £300,000+ a few years back

https://www.antiquestradegazette.com/news/2017/auction-record-for-british-five-pound-coin-at-340-000/

[sovereignsteve]

Having seen some of the photos on here, I'm almost regretting not buying one. I tihnk they look fab even though I'm not a great fan of the original £5.

The silver looks great too, they seem to have nailed the finish. Would worry about future spotting though and I'm trying to wean myself off silver proofs these days.

 

[GoodAsGold]

8 hours ago, Melon said:

Open question - how has this been established as the flagship modern gold coin of it's time? Seems a jump given it's been out like a week and hardly anyone owns it. 

I hope people don't get carried away in a wave of speculation. Sounds like lots of coins while sold haven't actually been sent out yet and therefore haven't hit the market, and also sounds like a fair amount of speculation on this being the next 'series to have'. I don't doubt peoples money is safe on this one at RRP, but I wouldn't want to be the first person to go and pay double RRP on it to be honest. People can ask whatever price they want, do we have evidence of people actively buying at these high numbers? 

Context - I know literally nothing about numismatics so I may be talking utter nonsense 😂 Just seems odd to me that someone can produce a coin today, say it's limited to 225, and suddenly it's not only selling at double spot price retail, but also then reselling allegedly for 4-6 times spot! 😮

 

7 hours ago, Paul said:

You are right it is all speculation at the moment - who knows where it will settle in price. Im just happy to have one and  happy with the price of £4k 

But factors in its favour are, when the original issue of the coin has more than double the mintage - has 140+ years history & sales with it - the design is extacly the same - and the original issue coin sold for for around £300,000+ a few years back

https://www.antiquestradegazette.com/news/2017/auction-record-for-british-five-pound-coin-at-340-000/

This is the forum at its best. Excellent debating in my opinion, rather than some of the ranting and raving which sometimes rears its ugly head. Una in all her beauty is certainly turning heads.

[goldmember44]

17 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

Would worry about future spotting though and I'm trying to wean myself off silver proofs these days.

 

This is really sad. There has to be a place in the sun for gold's lesser brother, silver. Silver proofs are beautiful and complement the gold. I really hope they find a solution for these spotting and tarnishing issues. Seems like other mints like the Canadian has found a solution for the maples.

[Paul]

Just for a laugh - FUN WITH NUMBERS 

I reference the previous gold Una sales above 

https://www.antiquestradegazette.com/news/2017/auction-record-for-british-five-pound-coin-at-340-000/

from the article

"The previous week, on September 14, a proof set of the full array of the ‘Una and the Lion’ coins from 1839 (featuring the five pounds to the farthing) sold for £220,000 at Dix Noonan Webb.

The set of 15 coins was in virtually mint state and housed in the original contemporary fitted case. This set had been in a private collection since February 1938 when it had been bought at Spink for £37."

SO

It was bought for £37 in 1938, and sold in 2017 for £220,000

2017 less 1938 = is 79 years

this gives an appreciation of £220,000 less £37 = £219,963 

£219,963 / 79 years = +£2,784 per year 

 

Ratio Solver

A         :    B                  =    C            :    D
£37    :    £220,000    =    £3995    :    £2,375,007,525

So without knowing it I now have coin that in 79 years time will be worth more than the current GDP of Belize ! 

Can anyone lend me a fiver ??  

 

 

Edited December 7, 2019 by Paul

[Derv]

55 minutes ago, Paul said:

Just for a laugh - FUN WITH NUMBERS 

I reference the previous gold Una sales above 

https://www.antiquestradegazette.com/news/2017/auction-record-for-british-five-pound-coin-at-340-000/

from the article

"The previous week, on September 14, a proof set of the full array of the ‘Una and the Lion’ coins from 1839 (featuring the five pounds to the farthing) sold for £220,000 at Dix Noonan Webb.

The set of 15 coins was in virtually mint state and housed in the original contemporary fitted case. This set had been in a private collection since February 1938 when it had been bought at Spink for £37."

SO

It was bought for £37 in 1938, and sold in 2017 for £220,000

2017 less 1938 = is 79 years

this gives an appreciation of £220,000 less £37 = £219,963 

£219,963 / 79 years = +£2,784 per year 

 

Calculate percentage change
 

from V1 = 37 to V2 = 220000

(V2−V1)|V1|×100(V2−V1)|V1|×100
=(220000−37)|37|×100=(220000−37)|37|×100
=21996337×100=21996337×100
=5944.95×100=5944.95×100
=594495%change=594495%change
=594,495% increase

Ratio Solver

A         :    B                  =    C            :    D
£37    :    £220,000    =    £3995    :    £2,375,007,525

So without knowing it I now have coin that in 79 years time will be worth more than the current GDP of Belize ! 

Can anyone lend me a fiver ??  

 

 

Excellent!

[goldmember44]

This guy wants £25,000 for it:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Una-and-the-Lion-2019-UK-2oz-Gold-Proof-Coin-Limited-Edition-225-Very-Rare/254446275421?

[Melon]

5 hours ago, goldmember44 said:

This guy wants £25,000 for it:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Una-and-the-Lion-2019-UK-2oz-Gold-Proof-Coin-Limited-Edition-225-Very-Rare/254446275421?

Ha, I notice he has offers enabled. If someone had the cash to go and stick an £8k offer in, I'd be super interested to see the response. 

[Notafront4adragon]

13 hours ago, Paul said:

Just for a laugh - FUN WITH NUMBERS 

I reference the previous gold Una sales above 

https://www.antiquestradegazette.com/news/2017/auction-record-for-british-five-pound-coin-at-340-000/

from the article

"The previous week, on September 14, a proof set of the full array of the ‘Una and the Lion’ coins from 1839 (featuring the five pounds to the farthing) sold for £220,000 at Dix Noonan Webb.

The set of 15 coins was in virtually mint state and housed in the original contemporary fitted case. This set had been in a private collection since February 1938 when it had been bought at Spink for £37."

SO

It was bought for £37 in 1938, and sold in 2017 for £220,000

2017 less 1938 = is 79 years

this gives an appreciation of £220,000 less £37 = £219,963 

£219,963 / 79 years = +£2,784 per year 

 

Ratio Solver

A         :    B                  =    C            :    D
£37    :    £220,000    =    £3995    :    £2,375,007,525

So without knowing it I now have coin that in 79 years time will be worth more than the current GDP of Belize ! 

Can anyone lend me a fiver ??  

 

 

Interestingly adjusted for inflation, in 1938 they paid about £2400. Fingers crossed you live another 80yrs!

[Paul]

8 hours ago, Notafront4adragon said:

Interestingly adjusted for inflation, in 1938 they paid about £2400. Fingers crossed you live another 80yrs!

I'll be in my 120's if a live another eighty years 😀 

[Murph]

Of course the coin was almost 100 years old in 1938 already and you are comparing a newly minted coin.

I think the young head victoria is much nicer as well.

Weren't there variations in the victorian one as well dirige, dirigit, plain edge and others?

[Stuntman]

I've certainly seen an original Una & the Lion £5 die with DIRIGIT, and an original coin with DIRIGE.

[Guest]

Getting this one next time I pick up coins. Not getting the gold one though.

[Oldun]

To those collectors who picked up a gold one, my heartiest congratulations. It will hopefully bring you years of satisfaction and joy (and a few quid !) to have in a collection. 

I just ordered a silver one from The Coin Connection to ensure there was quality control beyond the Royal Mint before receiving. A very nice lady replied to an enquiry I had in very quick time and replied that they would be shipping out (those coins that get past their quality control) sometime in January.

Clearly, the gold proof is THE coin to have but it will be lovely to own a "consolation prize" silver one to enjoy in the years to come. I do not think the silver will make any money on any resale other than maybe 100 years in the future and by then, who cares ?

However, it is a recognised classically beautiful design and will bring great joy to its owners. I thought I was done with modern silver proofs but this technically intricate and soft proof finish design remake was a "had to have" just like it is for many here.

And now, I better go and say something similar to my wife !🤣

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Oldun

[Paul]

On 06/12/2019 at 08:58, AndrewSL76 said:

There is a gold Una on eBay now........the asking price is 13,349.00 but the seller is open to offers.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2019-Royal-Mint-Una-and-the-Lion-200-COA-in-the-top-10-Don-t-miss-out-RareC/283664752587?hash=item420bbc9fcb:g:lDkAAOSwlTBd5y79

London coin company now has gold Una listed on eBay usa .com for $34,999 /£26,704 GBP this is getting a bit crazy now. 

A seller can ask £1,000,000 but if it doesn't sell its not worth that, it's worth what someone is prepared to pay for it

 

[Frenchie]

32 minutes ago, Paul said:

London coin company now has gold Una listed on eBay usa .com for $34,999 /£26,704 GBP this is getting a bit crazy now. 

A seller can ask £1,000,000 but if it doesn't sell its not worth that, it's worth what someone is prepared to pay for it

 

LCC do not propose the gold Una anymore on their site. and the ebay seller henceforth proposes his coin for auction...

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/2019-Royal-Mint-Una-and-the-Lion-200-COA-in-the-top-10-Don-t-miss-out-Rare/283702185668?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D0bce2e7d90c34b0e844f801784f928cb%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D283664752587%26itm%3D283702185668%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A636fbeb6-1a68-11ea-8993-74dbd180ab05|parentrq%3Aea0b0e7516e0aa48c3e8cfaaffd99e8a|iid%3A1

Difficult to know where is the truth with so few coins available in the market

Edited December 9, 2019 by Frenchie

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Oldun said:

To those collectors who picked up a gold one, my heartiest congratulations. It will hopefully bring you years of satisfaction and joy (and a few quid !) to have in a collection. 

I just ordered a silver one from The Coin Connection to ensure there was quality control beyond the Royal Mint before receiving. A very nice lady replied to an enquiry I had in very quick time and replied that they would be shipping out (those coins that get past their quality control) sometime in January.

Clearly, the gold proof is THE coin to have but it will be lovely to own a "consolation prize" silver one to enjoy in the years to come. I do not think the silver will make any money on any resale other than maybe 100 years in the future and by then, who cares ?

However, it is a recognised classically beautiful design and will bring great joy to its owners. I thought I was done with modern silver proofs but this technically intricate and soft proof finish design remake was a "had to have" just like it is for many here.

And now, I better go and say something similar to my wife !🤣

 

It's alright to start out with silver and then go to the gold ones is what I figure myself (that's what I'm doing myself right now). I want to collect 25 if not 50 or 100 Christian / Catholic coins myself. I'm starting out with silver for now at least myself. I want to grow my collection fast though and if I were to buy all gold for the 100 coins alone it would be $150k (roughly and that's just spot price) in 1 year if not 2 years. Again I want to grow my collection fast in the next 1-2 years or so and that could easily be 200k-250k for 100 coins alone if not more than that.

If I could though I'd order both myself (silver / gold) if not other ones they have for each year. That's called "fantasy" though as I recall / remember myself though. I could only do 5 sets (every 3 months or so of both the silver / gold coins for different designs) each year at most myself is what I figure and I really want to get a nice coin collection going first though (grow a starter collection fast). Silver / Gold would be the dream though for many coins I want myself like this one.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Guest

[Melon]

6 hours ago, E23 said:

It's alright to start out with silver and then go to the gold ones is what I figure myself (that's what I'm doing myself right now). I want to collect 25 if not 50 or 100 Christian / Catholic coins myself. I'm starting out with silver for now at least myself. I want to grow my collection fast though and if I were to buy all gold for the 100 coins alone it would be $150k (roughly and that's just spot price) in 1 year if not 2 years. Again I want to grow my collection fast in the next 1-2 years or so and that could easily be 200k-250k for 100 coins alone if not more than that.

If I could though I'd order both myself (silver / gold) if not other ones they have for each year. That's called "fantasy" though as I recall / remember myself though. I could only do 5 sets (every 3 months or so of both the silver / gold coins for different designs) each year at most myself is what I figure and I really want to get a nice coin collection going first though (grow a starter collection fast). Silver / Gold would be the dream though for many coins I want myself like this one.

Can't get the gold one anymore for this coin though. Given the benefit of hindsight I think we'd all buy the gold version if we could go back in time to the launch date. I'd remortgage the house and buy a bunch of them 🤣 Hard to know what the actual resale prices are, but with hindsight this particular gold coin appears to be easy profit 🤑

[Paul]

15 minutes ago, Melon said:

Can't get the gold one anymore for this coin though. Given the benefit of hindsight I think we'd all buy the gold version if we could go back in time to the launch date. I'd remortgage the house and buy a bunch of them 🤣 Hard to know what the actual resale prices are, but with hindsight this particular gold coin appears to be easy profit 🤑

Still no confirmed 100% sales in the private after market. the one sale London Coin Company shows 

The one sale they shows is via best offer and to someone with very low feedback 

Offer history

	User ID	Offer Status	Quantity	Date of Offer
	l***b ( 7 )	Accepted	1	Dec-01-19 14:22:56 PST
	0***a ( 72)	Declined	2	Dec-03-19 17:35:57 PST
	0***a ( 72)	Declined	1	Dec-03-19 17:35:17 PST
	0***a ( 72)	Declined	2	Dec-03-19 17:16:56 PST
	0***a ( 72)	Declined	2	Dec-03-19 17:15:31 PST
	p***_ ( 49)	Declined	1	Dec-01-19 21:50:00 PST
	p***_ ( 49)	Declined	1	Dec-01-19 21:48:41 PST

 

there have been no interest of further offers made, on London Coin Company's listing since the 3rd Dec -  even a crazy low offer - that is 6 days without interest

second one has been listed on ebay.co.uk at £25,000 with no offers made  eBay item number: #254446275421  he states ""Will Accept Decent Offer otherwise will hold it""

But no offers have been made on it

another one is listed on auction on ebay.co.uk at start bid of £12,345 by seller "greedisgood".  eBay item number: #283702185668

no bids as yet, ending today in 11 hrs 

 

So it is still just pure speculation, what it is worth as yet.

Need one listed, on 0.99p start for x7 day sale and see what two or three collectors with good feedbacks, feel it is worth them them, to judge its true market value

Until 3-5 have sold in the secondary market, there is still no benchmark/level price what the gold Una is worth as yet

 

 

[Melon]

4 minutes ago, Paul said:

Still no confirmed 100% sales in the private after market. the one sale London Coin Company shows 

The one sale they shows is via best offer and to someone with very low feedback 

Offer history

	User ID	Offer Status	Quantity	Date of Offer
	l***b ( 7 )	Accepted	1	Dec-01-19 14:22:56 PST
	0***a ( 72)	Declined	2	Dec-03-19 17:35:57 PST
	0***a ( 72)	Declined	1	Dec-03-19 17:35:17 PST
	0***a ( 72)	Declined	2	Dec-03-19 17:16:56 PST
	0***a ( 72)	Declined	2	Dec-03-19 17:15:31 PST
	p***_ ( 49)	Declined	1	Dec-01-19 21:50:00 PST
	p***_ ( 49)	Declined	1	Dec-01-19 21:48:41 PST

 

there have been no interest of further offers made, on London Coin Company's listing since the 3rd Dec -  even a crazy low offer - that is 6 days without interest

second one has been listed on ebay.co.uk at £25,000 with no offers made  eBay item number: #254446275421  he states ""Will Accept Decent Offer otherwise will hold it""

But no offers have been made on it

another one is listed on auction on ebay.co.uk at start bid of £12,345 by seller "greedisgood".  eBay item number: #283702185668

no bids as yet, ending today in 11 hrs 

 

So it is still just pure speculation, what it is worth as yet.

Need one listed, on 0.99p start for x7 day sale and see what two or three collectors with good feedbacks, feel it is worth them them, to judge its true market value

Until 3-5 have sold in the secondary market, there is still no benchmark/level price what the gold Una is worth as yet

100% agree with you, those prices seem ridiculous. I've said similar myself around it being very speculative earlier in the thread (although with less data to back it up that you have kindly provided! ). 

That said, I feel confident if I had one I could sell it on this forum for a profit today. Even if it was say £5k, thats 25% profit on a quick flip. So with hindsight I'd buy buy buy! 😄