2022 Piedfort “Pattern” Sovereigns

[westminstrel]

Okay so what exactly is this this, does anyone know?

It was mentioned in another topic and I thought it warranted its own discussion.

Here is the eBay listing which someone pointed out - which apparently mistakenly says these are grained edge but they are in fact plain edge.

Importantly… what might have been the purpose of creating these patterns? Gimmick? Special year? Will this become an annual thing?

[Clockpuncher]

They were a special set marketed to the Platinum / Platinum+ mint marque members - tiny mintage and I don't think the plan is for them to become a regular fixture, just a curiosity (and an expensive one at that) but certainly will be a rarity for this rather historic year. Note they are pattern proofs so not technically legal tender (is my understanding anyway).

[westminstrel]

Oh so they were made exclusively for the premium MM folks then?

I guess it makes sense since they’d be the ones who could afford such sets.

I can see it setting a precedent though. Increased mintages of “pattern” sets next year and more such exclusive “pattern” coins for other coin ranges could very well be on the cards. Why not? It’s just another stream of income for the Royal Mint.

Just like those limited edition art prints which (as I predicted - if I may say so!) have now become the norm for almost every coin range the RM releases.

Edited January 31, 2022 by westminstrel

[Clockpuncher]

Pretty much, they were about 12-13k as I remember so a chunky mark up on eBay there!

Hopefully not too many sell as the mint is already doing so many sizes and styles for each coin that the market already seems to be choking on the volume!

[GoldStatue]

I was under the impression that piedfort sovereigns aren't very popular.

Didn't they release them in 2017 and 2018 and then give up on them.

[LawrenceChard]

7 hours ago, Clockpuncher said:

They were a special set marketed to the Platinum / Platinum+ mint marque members - tiny mintage and I don't think the plan is for them to become a regular fixture, just a curiosity (and an expensive one at that) but certainly will be a rarity for this rather historic year. Note they are pattern proofs so not technically legal tender (is my understanding anyway).

 

7 hours ago, westminstrel said:

Oh so they were made exclusively for the premium MM folks then?

I guess it makes sense since they’d be the ones who could afford such sets.

I can see it setting a precedent though. Increased mintages of “pattern” sets next year and more such exclusive “pattern” coins for other coin ranges could very well be on the cards. Why not? It’s just another stream of income for the Royal Mint.

Just like those limited edition art prints which (as I predicted - if I may say so!) have now become the norm for almost every coin range the RM releases.

At a slight tangent, MM Mint Marque members used to be called the Royal Mint FDC Club.

I had my own theory about what FDC stood for in this case, and it was not Fleur de Coin.

Guesses on a postcard...

😎

[westminstrel]

7 hours ago, GoldStatue said:

I was under the impression that piedfort sovereigns aren't very popular.

Didn't they release them in 2017 and 2018 and then give up on them.

Yes they stopped them after 2019. 

[LawrenceChard]

On 31/01/2022 at 11:56, westminstrel said:

Okay so what exactly is this this, does anyone know?

It was mentioned in another topic and I thought it warranted its own discussion.

Here is the eBay listing which someone pointed out - which apparently mistakenly says these are grained edge but they are in fact plain edge.

Importantly… what might have been the purpose of creating these patterns? Gimmick? Special year? Will this become an annual thing?

So, related to the

you spotted?

 

 

[westminstrel]

Goodness there’s a set on sale on eBay for £31,995. 👀 

It looks like the seller has put up pictures of the regular 5-coin Sovereign set though.

The RM should have made a velvet lined case in a shield design like some of the cased Sovereign sets of old. Now wouldn’t that be special and gorgeous.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2022-Royal-Mint-Five-coin-Gold-Proof-Sovereign-Piedfort-PATTERN-set-issue-70-/144462429483

[Paul]

sorry for the daft question - but what is it that makes a 'pattern' coin  ?  is it them issued with the plain edge 

The ebay ad refers to no pattern set being issued since 1937 

Sorry for the basic question, but im sure someone here will know  

[westminstrel]

On 28/03/2022 at 21:36, Paul said:

sorry for the daft question - but what is it that makes a 'pattern' coin  ?  is it them issued with the plain edge 

The ebay ad refers to no pattern set being issued since 1937 

Sorry for the basic question, but im sure someone here will know  

I will be back with an answer soon if no one else does so before I get to doing it. I am trying to find something for you. 🙂

[Chrisplym]

Bit of a guess, but is it because the coins aren’t legal tender?

[Au79]

Piedfort (Pattern) = not approved for release double weight 2022 sovereign proof coin

Edited April 9, 2022 by Au79

[westminstrel]

On 28/03/2022 at 21:36, Paul said:

sorry for the daft question - but what is it that makes a 'pattern' coin  ?  is it them issued with the plain edge 

The ebay ad refers to no pattern set being issued since 1937 

Sorry for the basic question, but im sure someone here will know  

Okay so here’s my promised reply…

As some here have said, the simple answer is that pattern coins are exactly that - patterns - and therefore not legal tender. 

The stories behind them are however much more interesting, and also not very straightforward, if one cares for such things.

Usually pattern coins were “pre production patterns” stuck when new coinage / designs were to be released, to test various aspects about them, not least how they actually look and feel.

Remember that back in the day coinage didn’t change all that much. It typically changed for special occasions like coronations and jubilees, and commemorative coinage was issued only for very special events - certainly there was no weekly/monthly commemorative coinage like we have today.

So the pre production patterns were struck in limited numbers, usually less than 10 or so, and once their job was done, they were either melted down or retained and presented to important people and organisations as prestige pieces and sets (such as the British Museum, the Royal Collection, the Royal Mint Museum itself, and in some cases to privileged and important individuals).

Today, we have new designs every other week, and pattern pieces for these are common. We saw the recent Royal Mint Die Trial / Pattern Pieces Auction. You can read about die trial pieces here:

https://www.royalmint.com/collect/auction/what-is-a-die-trial-piece/

Now, coming to this 2022 Piedfort Pattern Sovereign set... 

As the Die Trial Pieces auction shows, the RM already made and auctioned off the pattern pieces made for the 2022 Sovereign.

So it seems this Piedfort pattern set is more of a prestige set made specially for privileged people, like in the old days. It is extremely limited and unique (being plain edge and piedfort). I believe this set marks the first time ever the other Sovereign denominations have been struck as piedfort coins.

The ebay listing is, I think, referring to the 1937 pattern coinage set made for Edward VIII, who of course abdicated and therefore his coinage was never released in the UK. So those pattern sets are not only rare but also among the most desirable m and expensive because they’re the only way collectors can ever own British coinage of Edward VIII. 

Here is a nice little article about these pattern coins: 

https://www.royalmintmuseum.org.uk/collection/coins/the-coins-of-edward-viii/

The Australian pattern coinage of Edward VIII is also fascinating, and rather gorgeous too: 

https://coinworks.com.au/The-1937-Pattern-coinage-of-Edward-VIII

The 1937 George VI 4-coin Proof Sovereign set also consisted of pattern coins - they are all plain edge.

As did the 1953 4-coin Elizabeth II Sovereign set - however these are milled edge.

Finally, I find it especially difficult to comprehend that these ebay sellers are selling their pattern sets even before they’ve received them or had the chance to enjoy them. It’s as if they don’t even care about what it is they’ve been offered - to be a part of history. This is the first ever platinum jubilee, and the last we’ll ever see for generations. It is so historic.

What a shame to just turn them over for a quick profit. If ever there was a definition of flipping coins, this would be it.

Edited April 11, 2022 by westminstrel

[FourNinesFine]

On 31/01/2022 at 20:08, LawrenceChard said:

 

At a slight tangent, MM Mint Marque members used to be called the Royal Mint FDC Club.

I had my own theory about what FDC stood for in this case, and it was not Fleur de Coin.

Guesses on a postcard...

😎

Well the 'FD' is clearly 'Fancy Dan'. But I'm really struggling as to what the 'c' might stand for. I mean, it's right on the tip of my tongue... but ...

[Britannia47]

Fleur De Coin! 💡Sorry, wrong answer!

Edited April 11, 2022 by Britannia47

[kimchi]

I'm still expecting a 'regular' (!) piedfort in the summer, what do others think?

[Paul]

2 minutes ago, kimchi said:

I'm still expecting a 'regular' (!) piedfort in the summer, what do others think?

more than likely 

[westminstrel]

28 minutes ago, kimchi said:

I'm still expecting a 'regular' (!) piedfort in the summer, what do others think?

Yes I think so. There’s the Gazette proclamation. 

25 minutes ago, Paul said:

more than likely 

I’m with you! 

[Paul]

Does anyone know what the RRP issue price was buying this pattern set from the Royal Mint direct please?

Cheapest set on FeeBay is £19,000

Now ive been reading and researching about 'pattern' coins and their history, these seems a no brainer for being an in demand coin set in years to come

Big price tag but a lot of gold in there - i bet the £5 was fab.  x10 sovereigns worth of gold on one coin nearly 80grams / 2 and a bit ounce coin 

Would it be daft to sell off x10+ of common 1oz gold bullion coins and take a calculated punt on this "pattern set" ??

 

 

[westminstrel]

@Paul - I believe it was £12,000 or £13,000 but only offered to Platinum Plus Mint Marque Members.

So one would have had to spend over £50,000 in one year. 👀 

Edited April 11, 2022 by westminstrel

[Paul]

1 minute ago, westminstrel said:

@Paul - I believe it was £12,000 or £13,000 but only offered to Platinum Plus Mont Marque Members.

So one would have had to spend over £50,000 in one year. 👀 

Thank you  @westminstrel

[westminstrel]

1 minute ago, Paul said:

Thank you  @westminstrel

You are most welcome Paul.  I know if you manage to get this set, you will treasure it. 🙂

[westminstrel]

I grabbed some images from an eBay listing and am sharing here for posterity.

@Paul

[Chrisplym]

This is a beautiful set and with the Queen’s sad passing most probably one that will do very well in the future with a mintage of just 70 but I am looking to sell mine. I will put up a listing.