Why hold Gold….just look at Turkey

[scotwasp]

I agree, he is hyper resilient, which is what makes me think we may well see how this plays out,  will make for some interesting viewing, will it be the slow car crash the West and markets expect, or will he defy logic.  

[Bumble]

Turkey cannot be allowed to collapse. It is the key to holding Asia, the Middle East and Europe together. It is the Jenga piece that cannot be removed without the tower collapsing.

[dicker]

I was always surprised how big Turkey’s army was before understanding its pivotal role between East and West.

Reading the news over the last few days, I see that the Lire is at its lowest level for some time and that the trading on the stock market has been halted a couple of times yesterday.  

This article is interesting and explains how reaL people are using gold in Turkey today.  I wouldn’t normally post a link to the Grauniad but this is ok.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/19/theres-jobs-but-no-money-turkeys-economic-crisis-begins-to-bite

A grim situation all round.  

[KevjustKev]

On 20/12/2021 at 18:48, HerefordBullyun said:

A regime change by the west wont happen. Turkey is in NATO. Its would be breaking all alliance policies.

Didn't stop Turkey invading Cyprus or going to war with Greece.

Edited January 10, 2022 by tallthinkev

[Bigmarc]

3 hours ago, dicker said:

I was always surprised how big Turkey’s army was before understanding its pivotal role between East and West.

Reading the news over the last few days, I see that the Lire is at its lowest level for some time and that the trading on the stock market has been halted a couple of times yesterday.  

This article is interesting and explains how reaL people are using gold in Turkey today.  I wouldn’t normally post a link to the Grauniad but this is ok.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/19/theres-jobs-but-no-money-turkeys-economic-crisis-begins-to-bite

A grim situation all round.  

Good article. Interesting read but I do find it hard to sympathize when the woman they opened the article on complains she doesn't know what to do, so she is selling her gold to buy a house. 

Do we have any actual Turkish members on here?

[HerefordBullyun]

2 hours ago, tallthinkev said:

Didn't stop Turkey invading Cyprus or going to war with Greece.

Didn't stop Turkey invading Cyprus or going to war with Greece.

It all goes back to the days of the Ottaman/byzantine empires its like UK and Northern Ireland scenario. The feuds between the Greeks and Turks have been going on for 100 years same as Uk and Ireland. Nato wont get involved in historical feuds but the UN is still based on the Turk greece border to this day in Cyprus, Its UN business. We are talking about the economic and strategic importance of Turkey, both are corelated. It is the gatewaty to the mddle east and many of thier airbases are used by NATO allies, for all the strategic middle east area's.

[Bumble]

There is a good video by Patrick Boyle on Turkey's economy here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5HCDvEaxSU

 

[KevjustKev]

2 hours ago, HerefordBullyun said:

It all goes back to the days of the Ottaman/byzantine empires its like UK and Northern Ireland scenario. The feuds between the Greeks and Turks have been going on for 100 years same as Uk and Ireland. Nato wont get involved in historical feuds but the UN is still based on the Turk greece border to this day in Cyprus, Its UN business. We are talking about the economic and strategic importance of Turkey, both are corelated. It is the gatewaty to the mddle east and many of thier airbases are used by NATO allies, for all the strategic middle east area's.

It goes back a lot farther than that, the first big mess was the Bronze Age collapse, around 1200-1150 BC. The whole of the Eastern Med was buggered, it being the crossroads, as you say.

Yep, history is my thing😁 

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by tallthinkev

[Bumble]

On that topic, there is a superb Youtube channel called Fall of Civilizations (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT6Y5JJPKe_JDMivpKgVXew) that contains lengthy documentaries about historical civilizations and how they came to an end. Much better than watching old movies over Christmas.

[dicker]

23 minutes ago, Bumble said:

On that topic, there is a superb Youtube channel called Fall of Civilizations (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT6Y5JJPKe_JDMivpKgVXew) that contains lengthy documentaries about historical civilizations and how they came to an end. Much better than watching old movies over Christmas.

Thank you very much.  I will take a look!

[KevjustKev]

Here's one. Got the book, Turkey really was buggered, along with the rest of them

 

[flyingveepixie]

On 21/12/2021 at 09:00, HerefordBullyun said:

It all goes back to the days of the Ottaman/byzantine empires its like UK and Northern Ireland scenario. The feuds between the Greeks and Turks have been going on for 100 years same as Uk and Ireland. Nato wont get involved in historical feuds but the UN is still based on the Turk greece border to this day in Cyprus, Its UN business. We are talking about the economic and strategic importance of Turkey, both are corelated. It is the gatewaty to the mddle east and many of thier airbases are used by NATO allies, for all the strategic middle east area's.

It goes back a whole lot further than that...  Think Leonidas and Thermopylae, Xenophon and the retreat from Persia  etc....   Ah, apologies,  others have already pointed this out.. 

Edited January 9, 2022 by flyingveepixie

[dikefalos]

1 hour ago, flyingveepixie said:

It goes back a whole lot further than that...  Think Leonidas and Thermopylae, Xenophon and the retreat from Persia  etc....   Ah, apologies,  others have already pointed this out.. 

Our conflict has nothing to do with the times of Leonidas, Themistoklis, Alexander the Great etc., nothing to do with Persia and the wars against them. After the win over Persia, Alexander dressed up in persian clothes as a sign of respect. We highly respect each other. Not the Mullahs, but the persian people, culture and achievements. 

It's about the looting of Constantinople, 400 years of slavery, lost homeland around the Mediterranean and the Black Sea, the genocide of Pontians in the 20's and much, much more. After the big earthquakes in Turkey and Athens in the 90's, where greek and turkish volunteers was the first to help their neighbouring country, the relations got better. Today this conflict is be used again to devide us and raise the hate. Especially things like the use of Hagia Sophia as a mosque, the daily violation of greek territory by the turkish air force and navy, the war rethoric by turkish PM, etc. makes things difficult and dangerous again. In the last couple of years there was more than one incident, that almost led direct into a military conflict. I don't know, what you see in the UK, in Germany you hear almost nothing about it. They are allies for hundreds of years.

At least we are just the dummies for geopolitical and financial interests. But with a lunatic like Erdogan and a clown like Mitsotakis this could get very serious. Greek and turkish PEOPLE have so much in common and we could be very good neighbours, even after all our bad and bloody history. We will see 2023 how far this will go, 100 years after Lausanne. Hopefully with a new turkish PM that respects international law.

[CANV]

The ‘British have been friends of Greece for some time now.   Unless you want that  Elgin cladding back.. then all bets are off 😉

[dikefalos]

3 hours ago, CANV said:

The ‘British have been friends of Greece for some time now.   Unless you want that  Elgin cladding back.. then all bets are off 😉

There are and was a lot of british gentleman on our side, giving a huge support. Your Royal Family has greek blood. Just Andrew looks like having more german blood. 😅

Not only thiefs like Elgin, many many good man supported us. Every greek kid knows about Lord Byron. Not only a suburb of Athens is named after him, a lot of our people naming their sons after him, Vyronas. Even today. Sadly today are different times, where only money makes the world go round. Just ask the kurdish people of Rojava or in North Irak about their american friends. 

I hope Greece and Turkey won't need friends to find a way back at the table again. Even with Erdogan we had different times some years ago. As long our presidents have to hide a lot of bad things, there will be tensions.

[Bars]

https://www.ft.com/content/b015842e-fcbd-40f8-b3f7-f3bc6d5c43a8

[SilverStorm]

9 hours ago, Bars said:

https://www.ft.com/content/b015842e-fcbd-40f8-b3f7-f3bc6d5c43a8

Are you able to copy and paste the article for us to see?  It’s asking for a subscription, and I’m not exactly keen about doing that.  

[daca]

19 minutes ago, SilverStorm said:

Are you able to copy and paste the article for us to see?  It’s asking for a subscription, and I’m not exactly keen about doing that.  

 

Ankara hopes to convert about $25bn of the hidden metal into the currency in latest scheme

Turkey will expand its drive to lure savers back to the lira next week with a scheme aimed at bringing billions of dollars worth of “under the mattress” gold into the banking system, the country’s finance minister told investors during a visit to London. Nureddin Nebati, who this week made his first trip to the UK since being appointed at the end of last year, said that the government hoped that 10 per cent of the estimated $250bn worth of gold kept by Turks in their homes would be converted into lira under the initiative, according to two participants at the event. Nebati said that 30,000 gold shops would play a central role in the scheme, which will build on a broader package of emergency measures unveiled in December in order to halt a freefall in the lira, which lost 44 per cent of its value against the dollar in 2021. The government had signed contracts with five gold refineries to convert jewellery handed over under the programme into gold bullion that would contribute to the country’s central bank reserves, he added. The ministry of finance declined to comment on the plan but Turkey’s state-run Anadolu news agency cited Nebati as saying that new measures would soon be announced to put “under the mattress gold into the [financial] system”. A traditional gift given for weddings and births, gold has long been a preferred way for Turks suspicious of the banking system — and their country’s history of inflation — to guard their wealth. But Turkish officials see it as part of a broader problem of “dollarisation”, or flocking to foreign currencies and precious metals, that has been a persistent source of pressure on the Turkish lira. While the new deposit schemes have had some success, attracting about $23bn in total, analysts are sceptical that they will provide a lasting solution to mistrust of the lira. Turkey has negative real interest rates of almost 35 per cent once Turkey’s inflation rate of 48.7 per cent in January is taken into account. One investor who attended one of Nebati’s group meetings said Turks’ longstanding mistrust of the lira would be hard to overcome. “Maybe if they pay a really good interest rate they can get some [interest],” he said. “But I doubt they’ll get $25bn.”

Nebati, who was appointed in December after the resignation of his predecessor, struck a bullish tone in a series of London meetings aimed at winning back foreign investors who have fled from Turkish stocks and bonds in recent years. He defended president Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s contentious policy of keeping interest rates far below inflation, predicting that inflation would fall sharply at the end of this year. Still, attendees told the Financial Times that Nebati came across as confident and well-briefed, especially in comparison with Berat Albayrak, a former finance minister and son-in-law of Erdogan who had a testy relationship with the foreign investor community. “This guy had a pitch. He’d prepared,” said Tim Ash, an emerging markets strategist at BlueBay Asset Management. “The message was clear: foreign capital is welcome. Forget about capital controls, we’re not going to do that. That’s encouraging.” Others warned, however, that the government’s efforts to hold the lira steady through micro management tools such as the deposit scheme, rather than orthodox economics, would backfire eventually. “The determinator of the valuation of the currency is the interest rate,” said another participant. “De-dollarisation by administrative means is impossible. Maybe they can make it work for a year but after that it will blow up.”

[SilverStorm]

👆 lol good luck with that. Trade in gold for fiat currency?  Those guys are smoking some pretty good weed!  🤣

[Roy]

Seriously? Who'd possibly exchange their gold for a currency that inflating away @ 48.7%?

Desperate measures!

[Centauri167]

In the Turkish news you will probably see lines and lines of "good" Turks doing everything for their country like selling all their gold to support the dictator, I mean President ...

In reality, those lines were people buying gold ... 🤣

Edited February 11, 2022 by Centauri167
"those" in stead of "does"

[Zhorro]

On 10/02/2022 at 03:49, Roy said:

Seriously? Who'd possibly exchange their gold for a currency that inflating away @ 48.7%?

Desperate measures!

This article discusses why people may not be willing to convert their gold:

https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/turkish-gold-conversion-plan-likely-falter-lack-public-trust

[HerefordBullyun]

Turkeys inflation over 70%

[Centauri167]

9 hours ago, HerefordBullyun said:

Turkeys inflation over 70%

A prelude to what will happen here ??

[HerefordBullyun]

2 minutes ago, Centauri167 said:

A prelude to what will happen here ??

Globally less a few countries