20 Franc Coins Of The LMU

[MrTT]

Im really excited today.

Just ordered 2 , 50 franc napoleon coins.

My first franc coins , 1864 A & 1866 BB 😁

[Lea79]

I got a nice little 20 lei from toshy yesterday 😁.  Collection is coming along nicely. 

[daca]

3 hours ago, Lea79 said:

I got a nice little 20 lei from toshy yesterday 😁.  Collection is coming along nicely. 

Is it possible to let us know the price? (if not please PM), I'm looking to buy some piece of history from my country (this coins are rare here, most got melted during the communist era) Thx

Edited July 22, 2020 by daca

[MrTT]

18 minutes ago, daca said:

Is it possible to let us know the price? (if not please PM), I'm looking to buy some piece of history from my country (this coins are rare here, most got melted during the communist era) Thx

I think this is the same coin , https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces23936.html

On the bottom of the page, they show 1 coin with a price.

[Toshunya86]

4 hours ago, daca said:

Is it possible to let us know the price? (if not please PM), I'm looking to buy some piece of history from my country (this coins are rare here, most got melted during the communist era) Thx

Hi @daca @MrTTI was the one selling to @Lea79

I don't have any now in stock but let me know in PM how much you can pay for that and I will try to find you one 

Mr TT be careful because catawiki shows the price without the commission I think .

[MrTT]

On 20/07/2020 at 18:49, MrTT said:

Im really excited today.

Just ordered 2 , 50 franc napoleon coins.

My first franc coins , 1864 A & 1866 BB 😁

Got a email yesterday from the company i ordered the 2 50 franc coins.

Apparently they had some error with there stock, and the 2 50 franc coins i ordered, they already sold 😱.

Well, i will have to buy some other coins for now. 

Im thinking, 20 franc and a few 10 koronas.

I really like the design of the hungary 10 korona coins.

 

[Prophecy]

1 hour ago, MrTT said:

Got a email yesterday from the company i ordered the 2 50 franc coins.

Apparently they had some error with there stock, and the 2 50 franc coins i ordered, they already sold 😱.

Well, i will have to buy some other coins for now. 

Im thinking, 20 franc and a few 10 koronas.

I really like the design of the hungary 10 korona coins.

 

Let's hope they don't charge you the rise in gold price

[augur]

Not sure if we have featured finnish 20 Markkaa yet; as all eastern european ‘LMU’ coins these carry more of a premium.

maybe @Xander can post pics of his 7 1/2 Roubles?

[Prophecy]

How many countries were in or followed the LMU? I'm seriously tempted to get them all after all these posts. I've already got some Nappy Bonies.

[whuamai]

There were only  France, Belgium, Italy and Switzerland, but many other countrys also used the same spezifications of coins.

If you want them all, it's a really hard to achieve goal, because there are like more than 70 different types of the "20 Francs" size..

Edited August 1, 2020 by whuamai

[Prophecy]

8 minutes ago, whuamai said:

There were only  France, Belgium, Italy and Switzerland, but many other countrys also used the same spezifications of coins.

If you want them all, it's a really hard to achieve goal, because there are like more than 70 different types of the "20 Francs" size..

I assume a lot were melted down after the geopolitical landscape changed in the early 20th century? Makes it even more historic. I am amazed regular people don't know about this 'precursor' to the Euro.

[Xander]

4 hours ago, augur said:

maybe @Xander can post pics of his 7 1/2 Roubles?

I'm afraid this is the last of my roubles, the last one I sold was on the Coin Cabinet Auction on Sunday. Ended up buying more Shield-back Sovereigns. 

[SilverTanner]

Lots of LMU coins at the Caranett Collection Part III - Gold Coins of Western Europe being sold at Heritage on October 11. Complete date runs anyone??

https://coins.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?N=3184+792+4294945209&ic=Items-OpenAuctions-ComingSoon-BrowseViewLots-071713

 

[LawrenceChard]

On 18/03/2018 at 13:07, Lea79 said:

@Ravinella they are 22ct the same as a sovereign.  5.81g total gold content. A bullion rooster works out at £31.50 a gram and a sov is £31.35 a gram so not too much difference in price ( prices from bairds). 

 

No, they are not 22ct gold, they are only .900 fine, which works out at 21.6cts.

I think this is why the USA settled on their 900 fine standard. At the time, they were revolting, like the French. (should that be rebelling?)

Specifications of the French 20 francs are shown here:

https://www.chards.co.uk/gold-french-20-franc-three-coin-bundle/5873

All other LMU gold coins were struck to the same standards.

We do mention the LMU on our original 24carat.co.uk site, as well as taxfreegold.co.uk; but we never did a comprehensive page with all the countries on it.

Juliana (Chard) did write an article about a year or so ago, for a collecting magazine, and I thought we had also turned it into a blog page on our chards.co.uk site. Seems we haven't. I'll ask her about it, but we are quite busy at present, so it might be some time before it materialises.

Don't forget, it did also encompass silver coins, not just gold ones.

[Kookaburracollector]

Many thanks to @richatthecroft (kindly sold me the coin on the left),for allowing me to play a game of sport the difference!

                                                        Re-strike                                                                                                  Original

No prizes for guessing they are both French 20 franc Roosters from 1906..but are they? One isn’t 🤔?
The coin on the left, is in fact a re-strike, and not an original. I had suspected for a long time that two different variations of this year existed, but until both were ‘in-hand’ I couldn’t be 100% sure..now I am.

1906 is the only year that a rooster can have two different edge inscriptions. Why the French decided to do this, I do not know (Please advise if you know).see below

With the aid of a dessert fork!..we can easily compare the two coin edges together.

The coin at the top has the inscription LIBERTE EQUALITE FRATERNITE and is the re-strike, the inscription on the original coin, is DIEU PROTEGE LA FRANCE ( God Protect France)..

Another small piece in the numismatic jigsaw fits into place😃.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Kookaburracollector
Typo

[Toshunya86]

21 hours ago, Kookaburracollector said:

Many thanks to @richatthecroft (kindly sold me the coin on the left),for allowing me to play a game of sport the difference!

                                                        Re-strike                                                                                                  Original

No prizes for guessing they are both French 20 franc Roosters from 1906..but are they? One isn’t 🤔?
The coin on the left, is in fact a re-strike, and not an original. I had suspected for a long time that two different variations of this year existed, but until both were ‘in-hand’ I couldn’t be 100% sure..now I am.

1906 is the only year that a rooster can have two different edge inscriptions. Why the French decided to do this, I do not know (Please advise if you know).see below

With the aid of a dessert fork!..we can easily compare the two coin edges together.

The coin at the top has the inscription LIBERTE EQUALITE FRATERNITE and is the re-strike, the inscription on the original coin, is DIEU PROTEGE LA FRANCE ( God Protect France)..

Another small piece in the numismatic jigsaw fits into place😃.

Hello

About the non-restrike rooster :

From 1899 to 1905 they have DIEU PROTEGE LA FRANCE 

From 1906 to 1914 the coins have LIBERTÉ ÉGALITÉ FRATERNITÉ following   the 1905 law about separation of the ( catholic ) Church and the state . This is the secular ( and   masonic ) motto of the French  Republic which is still ongoing today. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1905_French_law_on_the_Separation_of_the_Churches_and_the_State

Restrike rooster :

 

they are called Pinay restrike ; that was the name of the minister of the economy. They were produced between 1951 and 1960 and were given years between 1907 and 1914. They can be recognized because they are usually uncirculated and have a slightly different tone. They all have LIBERTÉ ÉGALITÉ FRATERNITÉ

 

Hope this helps 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Toshunya86

[jultorsk]

On 01/08/2020 at 13:32, augur said:

Not sure if we have featured finnish 20 Markkaa yet; as all eastern european ‘LMU’ coins these carry more of a premium.

maybe @Xander can post pics of his 7 1/2 Roubles?

Slight objection to 'eastern' - after all, Finland was a part of Kingdom of Sweden far longer (from 13th through more or less the 18th century). It was 'only' from 1809 to 1917 that Finland was designated as Grand Duchy of Russia. 😊🇫🇮 Finland legislated gold standard already in 1877 where as Russia stayed in silver standard for another 20 years. 

The coin above was minted from 1878 - 1913 in 10 markkaa and 20 markkaa denominations (see mintages below). Finns rather endearingly and literally wrote the composition on the 20 markkaa coin: 5.806 grams of gold (=kultaa) and 0.645 grams of copper (= kuparia).

Later there was another pair of gold coins (100 and 200 markkaa) issued only in 1926 - really lovely ones these, too. (edit: note these were heavier than the 10 and 20 markkaa LMU coins => AGW 0.1218oz and 0.2437oz, respectively).

The below text from Finnish to English through Google translate, apologies for somewhat poor grammar. 😉

Finnish gold coins

In May 2018, 140 years will have passed since the first gold coin was struck in Finland. The rapid decline in the price of silver in the late 1860s had made it difficult to maintain the silver standard in most countries. In Finland, the gold standard was introduced by a law passed in 1877, and at the same time the peg between the Finnish markka and the Russian ruble was broken. Financially, this meant convergence with Western Europe and distancing from Russia, which remained in the silver standard for another 20 years. There was also a distinct break from Russia's coinage in that the denominations of the coins followed the French example, the French gram measure was used and the weight and gold content of the coins (90%) were the same as in France. The compromise in the direction of Russia on the emblem of the 10 and 20 markkaa coins was the Russian imperial double eagle on its heart shield as the lion coat of arms of Finland. The only Finnish coin of the time, the country's name “FINLAND SUOMI” was written on the emblem. The reason for this was the requirements for the international convertibility of coins.

During the period of autonomy, the appearance of gold coins remained almost the same until the last gold coins minted in 1913 (photo). This was also important from the point of view of national self-esteem, as Russia itself switched to using the image of the ruler on its coins instead of the coat of arms in 1886. Finland did not follow this example, because by then the appearance of Finnish coins had already become established. The mintage of Finnish gold coins increased significantly in 1912, when Russia began to demand that Finnish payments be made only with Finnish gold coins. This also meant large investments in the mint’s capacity. The Finnish gold coins of 1878-1913 were not used very much in the normal money circulation. This was due to the large denomination of the coins, and larger shops preferred to use banknotes. About 10% of the volume of banknotes was in circulation during the period. The low circulation of gold coins can be attributed, at least in part, to the fact that gold coins are still generally in good condition and quite indelible.

However, at the beginning of the First World War in 1914, the global gold standard ended, in Finland the gold standard officially ended in 1915. In the years following independence, the value of the Finnish markka weakened at its worst to more than ten times lower than before the World War. When the value finally stabilized, it was decided to return to the gold standard in Finland in 1926. Gold coins were minted again in Finland in the same year as a sign of the gold standard. Now the denominations were 100 and 200 markkaa. Only about 50,000 coins were struck, and they were mostly of symbolic significance. Coins were not used in everyday trading. Unlike the previous gold standard, banknotes were no longer redeemable in gold either. The 1926 gold coins were originally designed as early as 1918, albeit at ten times lower denominations. In order to fit the larger denomination into the coins, the numbers had to be partially superimposed on the coins.

The return to the gold standard was due to the high inflation of the markka after the First World War. The gold standard sought stability for the value of the markka. However, the second gold standard remained short-lived. Finland plunged into a recession in 1928, which deepened in the stock market crash on Wall Street in 1929. The situation continued to deteriorate until 1931, when it was decided to temporarily abandon the gold standard and devalue the markka. This followed the example of an important trading partner, the United Kingdom. However, the temporary abandonment became permanent, and after 1931 Finland has not returned to the gold standard.

http://www.hysn.fi/kultarahat/

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by jultorsk
note: 100/200 markkaa different size

[Prophecy]

What's the deal with 100 Franc coins? Are they available (say, in France) for the same premiums as the 50 pesos or are they more expensive like the quint sov? Or more?

[MrTT]

1 hour ago, Prophecy said:

What's the deal with 100 Franc coins? Are they available (say, in France) for the same premiums as the 50 pesos or are they more expensive like the quint sov? Or more?

Many 100 franc coins for sell on https://www.numiscorner.com/collections/world-coins/cat-1-france

Edited August 16, 2020 by MrTT
.

[Toshunya86]

My last 20 francs LMU acquisitions including a few rare coins 

20 franga ari 1927 - Albania - King Ahmet Zogu

20 leva 1908 - Bulgaria- Ferdinand I ( Déclaration of Indépendance )

20 Lei 1906- Romania - 40th Anniversary of Carol 

20 drachma - Greece - 1884

 

 

[ilovesilverireallydo]

Added a 20 Zlotych today

[Foster88]

On 18/08/2020 at 14:22, ilovesilverireallydo said:

Added a 20 Zlotych today

When I first saw this, I thought, Hmmmm 2020?

Then I saw 1925 on the reverse.

He lived a long time didn’t he. 😂

Very nice coin.

[Choi]

Finally achieved my goal by adding a 1857 plain head 5 franc at a reasonable price (110 euros).   I  also got a 1/4 Krugerrand at  about 12% below spot from my friend as a gift and gave him my junk-grade Mexican 1920 5 pesos at the same terms.   I'm planning to buy a new LMU 20 franc for my 40th gold coin next week  (or a Sovereign~Half Eagle if the spot price goes below $1900).

Edited August 21, 2020 by Choi
misspelling

[Choi]

Here is my recent purchase. https://www.ebay.com/itm/20-francs-coin-8-guilders-gold-Austria-1878-superb-condition-6-46-grams-/283987366861?nma=true&si=TdpQPk8xXbJ%2FcMfsrg9iXrKoSs4%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I had some trouble founding a non restrike(1892) version of this.  It will be an attractive set with my  Hungarian version.    I will immediately post my own photo as soon as it arrives.

 

 

[Choi]

I finally received my Austrian coin.   It's interesting that although it's issued from the same country at that time,  even the edge is completely different. 

Both of them weren't intended for internal circulation because  Austro-Hungarian empire  was at the silver standard before 1892 and  the international price of silver was rapidly declining after 1873 so it was impossible to use gold due to Gresham's Law.    They were probably used as a trade coinage against LMU countries.