silenceissilver

1 hour ago, Ole76 said:

Ahh, so bars are not exempt from CGT?

CGT doesn't matter for you, if you mostly have Sovereigns anyway and want to stick to them, after his purchase. The threshold where it even kicks in is well above 10K, no clue where exactly, at the moment. (Unless there is a hyper inflation and the rates lack behind the prices which I would expect them to in such a scenario.)

I'd go for the coin because they don't come in blisters that you need to remove in order to test if it's real gold but if you do, it's probably a bit less liquid in private sales because it's perceived as a broken seal for many potential private buyers.

4 hours ago, Bixley said:

Thanks for that insight from the Met. It seems plausible in that the inscription , with dots, on the 100 Corona is: 

FRANC IOS . I .  D . G . IMP . AUSTR . REX . BOH . GAL . ILL . ETC . ET AP . REX HUNG .

and on the 4 Ducat is HUNGAR . BOHEM . GAL . LOD . ILL . REX  A . A . 1915

That is, a dot between the AA but not between AP.

I did think to send an email to the Austrian mint for a definitive answer but they do not seem to have an address to contact them.

 

• info@muenzeoesterreich.at

https://www.muenzeoesterreich.at/

Edit: Just noticed, they have an English email address as well:

• info@austrian-mint.at

https://www.muenzeoesterreich.at/eng

2 hours ago, goldenguy said:

@sixgun hey mate, same thing happened to me, I lost my gold/silver stack because of a robbery at our old apartment. Been quite a trauma since then because I've always had a fear of losing physical gold & silver ever since.. Recently though since crypto has boomed off, I started looking into gold & silver backed crypto tokens, and it caught my interest because I'm able to hold my gold & silver in a digital hardware wallet, and can either liquidate or redeem whenever I want! Look into it mate! I bought mine at Aurus, but there are other options as well 

Although I find the idea of combining precious metals and cryptos intriguing because it would solve the current incapability of using gold for making distance-payments without broker, I don't see how this could possibly work. With cryptos, everyone or at least many have the full copy of the blockchain, thus it's decentralised compared to just one central serverfarm of a financial institution. Gold however, would have to be stored in a centralised way. Theoretically, you could have a cryptocurrency backed by gold where everyone would contribute his own gold - however, no one would know if someone really had the gold. The only way for gold to be used as money and it not being centralised is for people to use real gold coins for payments.

It seems to me this is a fundamental issue that can't be resolved in a simple manner if at all, but I'm glad to learn I'm wrong. 

On 14/06/2021 at 22:26, LawrenceChard said:

I was pleasantly surprised to get an e-mail reply from Dr. Winfried Frühwald, saying he would show to coin to both Rauch and Künker, and withdraw the coin from auction if they agree with my opinion, which I am sure they will.

Has Dr. Winfried Frühwald replied to you again? The coin is not longer online, but it says "best offer accepted" - maybe a diplomatic way to withdraw it? Or has it indeed been sold?

What the best coin is, depends on the purpose.

For one ounce there is no reason to buy a Britannia for tax reasons (unless there is a hyper inflation and the tax rates lag behind. Currently, the  net gain tax (difference between purchase and selling) has an allowance of well over 10K, not sure about the exact figure right now).

However, Britannias are still the most liquid one ounce coins in the UK. This being said, I'm pretty sure any dealer would buy any of the most common one ounce coins world wide, which are, apart from the Britannia, the Krugerrand, the Maple, the Kangaroo, the Philharmonic, the American Eagle, the Buffalo and probably also the Chinese Panda. Not necessarily in this order.

All but the Krugerrand and the Eagle are pure gold, so if you want the most yellow, avoid them, if you want to be able to handle your coin, buy one of them as their copper makes them a little less soft and more suitable for handling.

Apart from the named coins, there are plenty other ones that are less common but might be more appealing, optically.

Personally, right now, I would buy a Krugerrand.

8 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

Kuenker are a major German and European numismatic auction house, they do also hold stock of coins as dealers.

I had never heard of Rauch before, but they are in Vienna, and Kuenker also have an office in Vienna, so it sounds like Frühwald can easily a second and third opinion, or third and fourht opinion, if you count mine.

Interesting. I only knew the major European auction house Dorotheum, which is based in Vienna. I sometimes have a look at their online auctions, although, in terms of coins, they don't often have Sovereigns and the like but rather e.g. Thalers.

2 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

I was pleasantly surprised to get an e-mail reply from Dr. Winfried Frühwald, saying he would show to coin to both Rauch and Künker, and withdraw the coin from auction if they agree with my opinion, which I am sure they will.

I don't know who Rauch is, but Kuenker must be this numismatic dealer:

https://www.kuenker.de/en

When I search for Sovereign on this German price comparison site, they don't show up but given they are specialised in numismatics, they might not have applied to be listed there, as they would always be at the bottom end of the search results anyway. I was looking because if they were listed there, it would be a good indication that they are reputable dealers. I'm not saying they aren't but my search hasn't confirm it.

https://www.gold-preisvergleich.de/gold/goldmuenzen/sovereign/#!sale,143,0

7 hours ago, Stuntman said:

Yes it's an index chart. 

At the start of the time series on the chart, the average house price in units of gold and in units of GBP was 100 units.

At the end of the time series on the chart, the average house would still cost the same 100 units of gold, but you would now need over 10,000 units of GBP (being over 100 times as many units of GBP than you needed 70-ish years ago to buy an average house).

So the conclusion I draw from the chart is that in 2021 an average house is worth the same amount of actual physical gold as it was in 1950 or thereabouts.  So the increase in the price of gold has mirrored the house price inflation over those 70 years.

 

Interesting to note that house price inflation was faster than gold price inflation until about 1973 (i.e. the thick line is going up) - then gold goes up faster than house prices until about 1980 (i.e. the thick line is going down) - etc etc.  

With the UK housing market currently going a bit nuts, the thick line will currently be going up again.

 

The house prices going up first and gold following is due to the gold standard till 1971. Nixon said, he had to "suspend" it because of gold price speculators. The speculation however took place because already before 1971 they printed more Dollars than the gold standard would have allowed - but gold had an official price which made gold too cheap compared to its actual value. Thus the gold price speculation and thus also the house prices going up first and gold catching up in the 1970s.

It would also be interesting to see an index for the number of hours an average earner needs to work to buy one house or a certain amount of gold. You would see you need to work much longer for the same amount of house or gold today, probably roundabout a factor of ten - really only very roughly (compared to the 1950s).

46 minutes ago, Hunter87 said:

The down side would be that any potential criminals would see you using the machine and would know what your carrying then mug you or follow you home knowing your probably going to have more at home. 

They can also do this now, when you leave a gold dealer. So instead you could have it sent by mail but then the government knows you have it and they might try and come for it one day, too. You can only move the risk around but you can't avoid it. Generally speaking, we have a comprehensive-cover-mentality today, that we expect the government to take care of. The effect is small risks are cancelled out and instead they accumulate over a longer time and then they strike in a more severe way and hit you more unprepared because it's the first time, during your life time. When you go home, you just have to make sure, nobody follows you all the way from the goldomat to your home. It doesn't seem to be unachievable. In case they strike on the way - well, the USA have a solution for this, we don't. 

1 hour ago, HawkHybrid said:

how is this different to a local gold bullion dealer?

 

HH

I don't know anything about this, not written in this article. I guess it might take away a hurdle for shy people and unexperienced gold buyers who are in the retail park already but don't dare going into the shop and ask questions.

More importantly, in the shop they would start recognising you, if you went there and spent close to 10.000 Euros each week, thus they would soon ask you to provide an ID whereas you you could probably spend half a million of Euros over one year, without showing any ID. 

The first physical cash machine for gold bars is now in the Czech Republic

And today, Peter Spina of GoldSeek.com reports that the Czech Republic's first physical gold bullion ATM has opened in central Prague, with more plans to be added in the near future.

...

The machine offers three options, but only two were in stock. A 1 gram gold bar, a 10 gram Argor Heraeus gold bar, and a 1 troy ounce bar.

The machine only accepts cash, euros or Czech crowns and you do not need to register your purchase with ID or registration of a phone number. However, there is a limit to purchasing anonymously. 250,000 CZK or 10,000 euros. Similar to the laws in the US ($ 10,000).

The prices were very competitive with the 10 gram gold bars in other large Prague gold shops (10 gram for 14,300 CZK or 563 euros).

The purchase was quick and easy. You select the desired gold bar, then feed the machine with banknotes and press "Buy".

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://uncutnews.ch/der-erste-physische-geldautomat-fuer-goldbarren-steht-jetzt-in-der-tschechischen-republik/

Just imagine: "Honey, when you go shopping, please don't forget the salad and the 1g Heraeus", again!" 

On 08/06/2021 at 11:41, sixgun said:

i think i would be guided by what is happening in Germany. There are lots of coin shops over the border. Stick to coins. Take a look at https://gold.de which is a good price comparison site for Germany.

There are Danish gold coins from the past. You might like to collect these.
https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/world-coins/danish-kroner/20-kroner-danish-gold-coin/

If people do not appear keen on gold in Denmark you might find to buy and sell is better in Germany. Coins from the major mints are usually at better prices and widely recognised. i would be guided on what represents good value in the German online coin shops. If it is good value, then there is likely demand and a liquid market. Steer clear of bars - they are not as trusted as coins - too easy to fake.

 

Just wanted to post something similar. I would look into Danish 10 or 20 Kroner, Krugerrands and Philharmonics and possibly Sovereigns, if I was in Denmark. 

Krugerrands are the most popular bullion coins worldwide (40% market share according to one big German dealer), Philharmonics are very popular on the European continent (but there might be huge differences between different countries, thus I would check it for Denmark, first) and Sovereigns are also a big deal internationally but again, I would check to which extent this might apply for Denmark. According to another big German dealer, outside of the UK and within Europe they are more popular in Southern Europe. German Marks usually have a bit of a premium but Swiss 20 Franks (Vreneli) often don't and they are also popular in Germany - and thus maybe also in Denmark? - Again, something that would need to be checked.

Size wise, if it's Krugerrand or Philharmonics, with that budget, I would go for quarter ounces. I think they are the most popular size after one ounce (murch more than e.g. half an ounce) and you don't have everything in one or two pieces.

The dealers listed on this German comparison site have all been checked for being trustworthy dealers and give you a good reference for what you should pay - also in Denmark.

8 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

ah yes tungsten. that's why I don't buy 1 oz coins, but I believe the ping test should spot these.

A magnet test will spot them, too. Here, one possible set-up (sorry, again in German but you can turn the sound off, you see everything you need to know, it's basically what I have described in my first post in this thread - gold gets pushed away, tungsten gets drawn to the magnet)

4 hours ago, silvernewbie said:

!I will have to get some acid for the future And do the scratch test £25 from amazon

I won't buy that coin from you. Not sure how many other people will. You might risk only getting melt value for it, thus considerably less. Also, it only tests the surface.

26 minutes ago, sovereignsteve said:

if it's made of aluminium maybe and about half the weight it should be.

Far easier to weigh it on accurate scales, they are cheap enough on ebay, and measure it's diameter and thickness. That's why coins are the best way to go, it's easy to find the true weight and dimensions in reference sources. Compare the measured against the reference and you'll soon spot the fakes. Well most of them, but if it's just bullion as opposed to numismatic, you're highly unlikely to find any fakes that aren't obvious from the weight etc.

 

From my own experience I find that pretty inconclusive.

It's in German but just looking at the video gives you an indication of how close good forgeries can get to real gold. You do see him measure it the way you suggest but it's really a very close call - or rather no call, at all. He doesn't do the magnet test though (from what I remember) and the forgeries are made of tungsten (from what I remember). 

4 hours ago, Pete said:

Sorry to advise but these tests are a total waste of time and may be giving you false security.

I have never heard of this test but for sure it doesn't sound convincing, at all. I thought he meant a specific gravity test, first.

Some interesting reads

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/what-hunt-brothers-can-teach-us-about-gamma-squeezes-0

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/rabobank-uprisings-and-revolutions-are-often-result-expensive-silver

https://renaissancemen.org/2021/02/02/why-the-silver-longs-and-eric-sprott-can-defeat-the-silver-shorts-an-education-in-4d-chess/

A specific gravity test, combined with a magnet test will determine if it's gold with practically 100% certainty, at least for a small (thin) piece of gold. Even for a big, fat bar it will give you a very good indication but in theory a fat bar could still be forged, despite these two tests. What kind of piece of gold is it and how big?

The reason for the difference in certainty is the different ratio between volume and surface between small and big pieces or rather simply the thickness. If there is a layer of real gold on the outside, the magnet will act as it should but it could still be a mixture of metals inside that have the same average density as gold. Whereas for a thin bar, the real layer of gold would be too thin for the magnet to act as it should, if it had a core of a different composition. All in all, the likelihood that it's real is very high even for big bars, with both tests combined, though.

However, carrying out a magnet test is quite tiring because the effect is not big. It's much easier done for silver. If you slide a small neodymium magnet down the gold coin, you will hardly be able to determine if there was an effect. Ideally, you'd want to hang it on a thread, make sure it's 100% still and get a neodymium magnet that ideally (but not necessarily) is at least roughly the same size as the piece of gold, close to the gold coin and see what it does.

1 hour ago, LawrenceChard said:

We would be happy to continue buying, as we always have.

Nowadays, we are able to hedge our open positions, so if a couple of TSF members got together and sold us a million ounces of silver, we would "short-sell" some or all of it to eliminate our position risk. If silver then crashed, we would be very happy to sell it all back at half the price, a win-win situation.

I'm in with 1000 ounces. So we just need another 999.000 Anyone else?

32 minutes ago, sixgun said:

PS - i wonder if the electronic giants are getting a bit wobbly about this and are in the process of trying to buy all the silver in the world - whilst they can still afford to.

I have not read this anywhere before I read your post but this came to my mind as well, yesterday. Let's say it would have gone somewhat to the moon but not totally. How many of us would have sold their monster boxes? Who would then buy it, at those prices? Only those who would need it to close their short. And the outcome would be all of our stacks would be gone and the silver concentrated at a very few financial institutions.

Maybe taking out silver altogether would be worth paying very high prices for them as it would take away the possibility to use it for circumventing digital payments (where you can be turned off by the klick of a button, if you don't obey the powers that shouldn't be) in a cashless dystopian future.

As silver didn't even go halfway through the moon though, I don't actually think this is a likely option, at all.

1 minute ago, silversky said:

That's USD/kilo

I'll take my smiley back, I thought you meant troy ounces

22 minutes ago, silversky said:

23:00 is when any real action will start

44 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

Dealers will be the only ones that are guaranteed a return over the next few weeks.

No,  me too because I bought almost my entire stack when the spotprice was between 11 and 12 Pounds.

....

Of course just on paper as I don't think I will sell, soon.

You can pick up metals in person from the European Mint. A friend of mine did that. However that was before the lockdowns, so obviously you need to take that into account.

51 minutes ago, Paul said:

I wonder how many forum Millionaires we will have by this time next weekend thanks to silver !  😎

Bring on £500oz before Friday please 

I will put a QB Monster Box on the sales section for 400.000K or alternatively your house but only if it has a swimming pool. 

47 minutes ago, sixgun said:

And how is the Fed going to stop a rise in the silver price?
Sell short on the COMEX these days and delivery will be demanded of the shorts. The banks are desperate to come from under their shorts.
The Fed cannot print physical into existence. 

With all their fiat surely they can afford the best alchemists.