silenceissilver

Some coins I picked up during my holidays, a few days ago

Maria Theresia - Madonna-Taler 1776  S.K -P.D Kremnitz

Another Maria Theresien Taler but the modern bullion version

And a one ounce Austrian Philharmonic from 1996, so still with the denomination in Schilling

Not sure if this thread is helpful

So, finally I managed to take some pictures of my new proof half sovereigns. What looks like scratches/dirt, is the capsule. You don't even see that with your bare eyes. Acutally, I looked at them through a microscope, you can see what is the caspsule and what is the coin, there. You can also see some micro scratches on some parts of the field (completly unvisible with your bare eyes and none at all at others) but no comparison to my bullion coins and I won't grade it anyway. So, I really like my first proof coins, although I will still mostly stick to bullion coins.

Edit: Not sure what this paper looking thing, on the left part of the capsule of the left coin is, it's from the secondary market and I won't open it, so that I don't add a few new microscratches.

Edit2: Oh no, is it possible the dates look odd - the 0s different on the two coins and the 2s as well?

On 25/01/2019 at 22:26, Silvergun said:

Recent pickups . 1894 half sovereign and a 20 peso

Nice, but it's a shame you have given up your NPC profile pic. Let's hope there will be an NPC coin, one day.

Today I bought my first two proof coins at all, two ordinary 2000s proof Half Sovereigns.

Unfortunately, they are so reflective that I could just as well post a picture of a mirror at my home.

I will try again at day light, on the weekend.

Very interesting thread! Can you give your thumbs up for it? Found the French Franc and the Vreneli and also the Austrian and German gold coins of the time interesting as soon as I started with Sovereigns, last summer. Still sticking to them for now, but will get into the continental coins as well - I don't want to have a chaotic mishmash either, so still need many more sovereigns first. The bullion versions of these old coins are preferable over current bullion coins in my opinion because they have a history and were actually used as money. Also true for their numismatic versions, I would buy them rather than contemporary proof coins.

On 23/12/2018 at 20:17, silenceissilver said:

I will measure the dimensions and weigh it again tomorrow and post the results here

Measured it along with my other sovereigns. The Isle of Man sovereign has the right density, however my half sovereign turned out to be fake. Will post it in the gold thread.

20 minutes ago, shortstack68 said:

Everything is difficult from just a picture, you can only give an opinion

Indeed and it's very much appriciated

29 minutes ago, silenceissilver said:

Now I have made it my profile picture, so it better be genuine.

I will measure the dimensions and weigh it again tomorrow and post the results here

9 minutes ago, Bullionaire said:

I think one of those is a proof, therefore were comparing apples with oranges a bit. 

I would recommend you check the dimensions carefully. If the width and depth are ok, and the weight is OK. Chances are it's genuine. Fakes are usually physically too big and weigh the right amount or weigh too little and are the right dimensions.

The fact that yours weighs the same as a uk sovereign and is a bit worn, fits with mine being heavier and not being as worn. Here is a pic of mine to compare

 

Now I have made it my profile picture, so it better be genuine.

8 minutes ago, shortstack68 said:

These 3 legs

I see, thanks, the distance is shorter in the right one but I don't think it touches it. At the right one the distance seems to be the same as in my coin. You can't see that in the second photo though but in the first one

1 hour ago, shortstack68 said:

Regardless if its real or fake, don't think that no one will or hasn't already, there's many fake Victorian sovs, the chinese can make good fakes these days and just getting onto modern, why do you think we have a new shaped £1 coin, due to the amount of fakes in circulation, so someone does have too much time on their hands, never rest on your laurels because you think nobody has faked something, dealers have sold fake gold, knowingly/unknowingly

True but at least it's considerably less likely for a bullion coin that actually has the right gold content.

1 hour ago, sovereignsteve said:

Looking at these photos, I notice a difference in size of the "PM" in the exergue, probably the designer's initials. The OP's coin has the bigger letters similar to the 1973. However, the 1974 may be a proof which could easily be a different design. Looking around, I see both styles of initial on the 73 and 74 so not conclusive.

I think you are right with your assumption

1 hour ago, JunkBond said:

Pobjoy Mint...

Thanks for clarifying that

1 hour ago, shortstack68 said:

I was going to say the same about the PM, the other thing i noticed however is the manx shield and the 3 legs, specifically the leg at 6pm, one touches the bottom of the shield, the other doesn't, the facial feature of the horsemen also look different, but these irregularities could be because 1 is proof, the other not, the lighting and the wear etc etc etc

What do you mean with the 3 legs? In all versions the left hind leg of the horse touches the bottom line. ... Made a new photo, still struggeling to get a good take but maybe the face is a bit more visible. ...interesting how the colour changes with the flash light and the additional light turned off. It has lost some copper in this take, I think

22 minutes ago, 5huggy said:

The Royal Mint did not produce a half sovereign this year but the Isle of Man did produce a half sovereign this year. 

They are recognised by HMRC as cgt free!

Thanks, good to know!

3 hours ago, shortstack68 said:

I thought the lettering looked too rounded and the shield on the REV also, but it could be a multitude of things

I think the lettering is fine, if you compare it to online pictures. Also thanks for everyone elses assessment but I think it's fine, just worn, which is OK for a bullion coin. I will propably carry out the density test tomorrow and keep the forum updated. If it brings the right result, I doubt it could still be a forgery as it is only a bullion coin. There would be no point in doing this. In any case if it really should turn out to be not legit, the dealer I bought it from would take it back.

1 hour ago, shortstack68 said:

If i'm honest, that IOM coin doesn't look kosher, it has extremely mushy legends and the horseman also looks very mushy........I'm not an expert on the coin, but it doesn't look right to me

Thanks for your assessment, I will definitely have it looked at by another coin dealer even after the density test but I still think it's a genuine iom sovereign, my camera is not the best for close ups in the first place, plus the overexposure of flash light and yes, under the magnifying glass the horseman's face looks quite worn but the condition is generally rather poor but it's still a legit bullion coin.

34 minutes ago, Bullionaire said:

I'm a big fan of these iom sovs (although this example does look a tad beat up). I don't know about the 1974, but the 1973 one had a mintage of 40000. 

My 1973 one also weighs a bit more than a standard British full sov.

Interesting, today I also bought a regular sovereign, weighted both and within a miniscule margin (0.01 - 0.02 grams or so), the weight was the same. I have not measured it yet but the thickness didn't seem to be 100% the same. That might be my eyes though. Density test to be carried out the next days. I'm sure it's real though. Could it be that the more copper coloured newer ones are thicker because of the lower denistiy of copper compared to whatever the alloy composition might be at less red sovereigns (silver?)

Today I bought my first non-regular sovereign - Isle Of Man 1974, a bullion coin. As I don't know anything about them, if anyone does, please share your knowledge. E.g. Is it capital gain tax exempted as regular sovereigns are? What grade is it, very roughly - obviously very low, (see e.g. the 2 dents on the right, at the rim, on the obverse, also visible on the left on the reverse) but I couldn't specify it any further at all, just out of interest, not for having it graded. What's the mintage? Does it have some numismatic value after all (They seam to sell quite high on e bay). And so on - any information about this coin is welcome. PS: Sorry for the bad picture quality, I don't get a better take without sunlight.

1 hour ago, Goldmick said:

Now £974 wow

Let's hope it will fall again, I still want to buy much more at the lowest price possible.

10 hours ago, Glorfindel said:

The thing I take issue with is people trying to make me feel bad for not selling them here. I just did not (and still don't) feel comfortable about informally selling to individuals who I don't know.  I'm by no means happy that I lost money, but I am relieved to have got out of gold with a relatively small loss. I could be completely wrong about the gold price/Brexit - but surely you can understand that I did not want to risk it? Money in a LISA saving for my first house is a much better use of the cash imo.

We can all understand you want to minimise your risk. What I don't understand and I assume a few others here, is that you think shares and bonds bear less risk than gold, particular in these financially volatile times with such obvious bubbles on the stock markets and high levels of government debts.

23 minutes ago, Glorfindel said:

And @silenceissilver with respect, I do not take financial advice from a guy filming a video in his car. 

I don't give advice to anyone here, I just share my opinion and explain it. In this case I also emphasisied it with an emotional video.

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58 minutes ago, Roy said:

 

It was actually supposed to be a store of wealth for 4-6 years and a hedge against the next  crash

Which will come and make your newly aquired shares and bonds not completly worthless but they will go dowhnill big way. No one knows when but sooner or later it has to come in one of several possible forms, which are basically a hyperinflation or a biblical debt cancellation (= cancellation of monetary assets) unless - theoretically it can be carried on forever but only at the cost of a permanent 30ies style deflation. Occupy yourself with the monetary system thoroughly and you will probably buy PMs again. Don't just read about it from one perspective (one school of thought) but all alternative monetary sytems that exist. You can break it down to the full privatisation of money creation (Austrian School of economics), the full nationalisation (Irving Fisher etc) and Demurrage Money after Silvio Gesell and of course PM back currency. From every single perspective we are heading towards a crash - and you will be screwed because you are too easily scared off.

That's my perception

Can't find a translation for Dreispeichenregel (basically describing different assets going through long term cycles and alternating between which one is high or low at given time)

It's an objective fact that in the UK, real estates were 5 times overvalued compared to the overage income already 10 years ago, compared to the 50ies. It's an objective fact that shares, bonds etc are overvalued compared to the gross domestic products compared to most of the time after WW2. You buy when it's low, if it goes further down you hold unless you are forced to sell due to personal circumstances. On the other hand, if everyone did that, I don't see how this could still work. Of course you can never have 100% security ever, but having more trust in shares and bonds than in gold, right now is simply based on feelings, not on facts. Bad decision!