Car Trader starting to invest in Gold

[Sahil]

Hello Folks, 

I am a car trader in London. The motoring industry has been quite since October, I hardly sell one car a month. Due to costs of living people are not bothered to spend money on upgrading. I am looking to buy gold around 1 kg . Every shop I go to charges extra 2% premium for cash transactions. Mostly have a annual limit of £5000 . I went to sharps pixley they asked for hell loads of id documents to comply with hmrc regulations. 
 

Could you guys please recommend somewhere they accept cash. I am happy to pay 5% premium on top of spot price. 
I look forward for some useful advice.

[morezone]

Dealers will require ID etc to comply with HMRC anti money laundering regs for large cash transactions.

[stackerp5]

Hi Sahil, welcome to the forum!

I think you will find great use of the trade section on the forum. Lots of big fish and smaller fish selling gold at reasonable premiums on here. A silver membership is worth to have a look and grab the freshest bargains.

Not sure if TSF is still doing introductory offers for the premium plans. Last I heard you could use £1 to test a month of a premium silver membership. This premium membership allows you to see listings immidiately instead of having to wait 3 days to see it.

I digress. This forum is the place to go if you are not willing to do ID checks etc. Some sellers on here are business sellers, but you can always message someone privately and ask

EDIT: I do receive cash by post payments as a payment method but I do not have nearly close to 1kg of gold

Edited February 1 by stackerp5

[dicker]

I believe that there was a post from another car dealer perhaps a couple of years ago who was also equally horrified about having to prove his identity when paying cash…

I replied on that thread that you have nothing to fear if you are paying all of the tax that should be paid…  Why not simply bank the cash and pay by wire.  You can get a 1kg of gold delivered within 24 hours for around 2.5pct over spot.

It’s that simple.  

 

[Paul]

to add to @morezone £5k is the limit for HMRC for a single transaction 

or £10k in cumulative transactions/purchases over a rolling calendar year for established dealers 

Very easy to reach that buying gold 

You have option to purchase in cash from a coin fair but these are only a few times a year, and in most time prices are far from competitive, and you can get them cheaper online  

You may find a dealer/semi professional /hobby dealer who can happily look the other way take cash that'll process "off the books" but you wont find them walking in as "Joe Public" off the street they don't know from Adam. 

I have a local jeweller/pawnbroker who i can get sovereigns for spot or 1%-2% so over spot, but it is only when he has been sat on them for a good while and they haven't shifted sat in the window. He gets rid of dead stock, makes profit from what he paid for it & gets fiat cash to keep in house he can use for his pawn broking, I get super cheap sov - Win Win for us both

I will pay him cash ££ over counter in person but I'm still paying, that percent or two more than he would get Baird & Co will pay him at "trade account rates" that'll be for their melting pot or their stock inventory.  But this is the first dealer Ive been able to get this with since stacking in 2008 who'll take this and make sales "off the books"

 

[dicker]

BTW it would be naive to think the HMRC / NCA *doesn't* keep an eye on this forum.

They may even have asked for member details and the forum admin would be legally prohibited from telling a member.  

It pays to be a straight player, especially given that government agencies can see any of your comms, accounts etc.

With CGT free coins it’s a non issue.

Edited February 1 by dicker

[Paul]

Also to prevent the somewhat HMRC: ID details etc Keeping under the £5k trigger level for ID 

You could do:  x1 sov = £400 for sake of "simple maths" 

• x10 sovereigns from BBP = £4,000
• x10 sovereigns from Atkinsons = £4,000
• x10 sovereigns from Chards = £4,000
• x10 sovereigns from Hatton Garden Metals = £4,000
• x10 sovereigns from Bleyer Bullion = £4,000
• x10 sovereigns from ATS = £4,000
• x10 sovereigns from Baird & Co = £4,000
• x10 sovereigns from Sharps Pixley = £4,000
• x10 sovereigns from TheGoldBullion= £4,000
• x10 sovereigns from UKBullion= £4,000
• x10 sovereigns from J Bludel = £4,000
• x10 sovereigns from Gerrards = £4,000

and get your 1kg of gold without giving over your docs/proofs

But all the firms will still have your details on file for each sale, and you'd still need to pay by bank transfer  

 

[VGfine]

4 minutes ago, dicker said:

BTW it would be naive to think the HMRC / NCA *doesn't* keep an eye on this forum

What if they have already setup an account and are masquerading as members, posting about TV licences, Star Wars, spoons or even Tata’s

come to think of it @dicker seems to know a lot about it 🤔

Maybe I’ve been watching too much Traitors on TV 😆

anyway, welcome to the forum, hope you find what you are looking for here.

[GoldDiggerDave]

Can you buy a car without any I.D, drive it away without taxing the car, or notify the DVLA of change of ownership.  
 

[Paul]

8 minutes ago, dicker said:

BTW it would be naive to think the HMRC / NCA *doesn't* keep an eye on this forum.

They'd soon get board here, unless they might love to read about of moon shots, evading TV license, price of beans, house prices, general inflation and BOO! memes

[GoldDiggerDave]

Just now, Paul said:

They'd soon get board here, unless they might love to read about of moon shots, evading TV license, price of beans, house prices, general inflation and BOO! memes

With the likes of eBay and some auction houses now following suit, I can see so many none PM sales here soon we had trainers yesterday. 
 

Social media and peer to peer will  be next. 

[AaaGee]

[Paul]

5 minutes ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

With the likes of eBay and some auction houses now following suit, I can see so many none PM sales here soon we had trainers yesterday. 
 

Social media and peer to peer will  be next. 

[Coverte]

34 minutes ago, dicker said:

I believe that there was a post from another car dealer perhaps a couple of years ago who was also equally horrified about having to prove his identity when paying cash…

I replied on that thread that you have nothing to fear if you are paying all of the tax that should be paid…  Why not simply bank the cash and pay by wire.  You can get a 1kg of gold delivered within 24 hours for around 2.5pct over spot.

It’s that simple.  

 

I'm not up to speed with the exact % anymore, but banks now charge business a/c's a % of the value to pay in hard cash;

maybe that is the issue OP is trying to get past, although people buying cars for cash is increasingly rare, or indeed actually truly owning a car outright without finance come to that.

Edited February 1 by Coverte
value typo

[GoldDiggerDave]

Just now, Coverte said:

I'm not up to speed with the exact % anymore, but banks now charge business a/c's a % of the value to pay in hard cash;

maybe that is the issue OP is trying to get past, although people buying cars for cash is increasingly rare, or indeed actually truly owning a car outright without finance come to that.

Also the same issue you can’t take more than 10k off someone in cash…..and why would you want to?  Cash in amounts over a few hundred quid is an inconvenience verging on a liability.  
 

 

[Sahil]

I would like to thank people on responding on my first post. Some of the advice is useful. Previously I have purchased & sold sovereigns . They sold at scrap price below spot price. It did not excite me. I am only investing in 24ct Gold . So Ounce coins such as Britania, Maple leaf, Australian Kangaroo, Austrian Philmoric mints or any 24ct bars are my choice of items. 
 

I am a tax paying citizen and have receipts of Vehicles bought & sold but who on earth would want to be under investigation of Hmrc ? Its a daunting investigation where all your bank accounts could be frozen until it’s completed. Also my bank charges 4 % cash handling fee. 

@Paul many of those dealers you listed do not accept cash at all, I called Baird , Gerrads, Atkinsons, and few more. And some of them do not offer counter service. Ideally I would like walkin counter service. 

Those dealers who can provide me invoice online with their bank account number can also be a good option. I am happy to keep transactions under £5000. 

@davegolddigger my dear Dvla does not care if you buy/sell and dealers accepts £millions cash in car  trading even with zero income proof. You can walk into car dealerships with unlimited amounts of cash and they will kiss your hands. You go to a Gold shop with over £10K . They will show you the door. They are completely different industries.  Its the Hmrc all gold dealerships are afraid off. Lets not divert the topic elsewhere

Much respect to all posters keep your advice coming:

 

Edited February 2 by Sahil
Small word was missing

[HonestMoneyGoldSilver]

I can't answer all your questions but I might recommend keeping most of the gold CGT-exempt. UK legal tender coins (24K Britannias, QBs, sovs, etc) are CGT-exempt whereas 24K bars are not

[GoldDiggerDave]

5 hours ago, Sahil said:

I would like to thank people on responding on my first post. Some of the advice is useful. Previously I have purchased & sold sovereigns . They sold at scrap price below spot price. It did not excite me. I am only investing in 24ct Gold . So Ounce coins such as Britania, Maple leaf, Australian Kangaroo, Austrian Philmoric mints or any 24ct bars are my choice of items. 
 

I am a tax paying citizen and have receipts of Vehicles bought & sold but who on earth would want to be under investigation of Hmrc ? Its a daunting investigation where all your bank accounts could be frozen until it’s completed. Also my bank charges 4 % cash handling fee. 

@Paul many of those dealers you listed do not accept cash at all, I called Baird , Gerrads, Atkinsons, and few more. And some of them do not offer counter service. Ideally I would like walkin counter service. 

Those dealers who can provide me invoice online with their bank account number can also be a good option. I am happy to keep transactions under £5000. 

@davegolddigger my dear Dvla does not care if you buy/sell and dealers accepts £millions cash in car  trading even with zero income proof. You can walk into car dealerships with unlimited amounts of cash and they will kiss your hands. You go to a Gold shop with over £10K . They will show you the door. They are completely different industries.  Its the Hmrc all gold dealerships are afraid off. Lets not divert the topic elsewhere

Much respect to all posters keep your advice coming:

 

There are already very many benefits to storing your wealth in gold bullion, gold bullion companies are right to charge for cash, no doubt you like I do get charged for trying to deposit cash.   Cash is just becoming an obsolete liability.  The days for "discount for cash" is pointless as you are left holding the baby with cash.   Not illegal to take cash just having to drive to the bank queue up and get the 3rd degree is not worth the hassle.

Possibly you should start to also charge people for giving you cash then you can buy gold with the cash and not be out of pocket.  

[MBTPSilver]

Any legitimate dealer will require ID to comply with the following rule. The 5k rule is a misconception and relates to the seller, not the buyer - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/gold-acquisitions-imports-investments-and-vat-notice-70121#sect7

I'd say any dealer that accepts lots of cash and doesn't ask for any ID would be worth being very careful with.

[Paul]

18 hours ago, Sahil said:

@Paul many of those dealers you listed do not accept cash at all, I called Baird , Gerrads, Atkinsons, and few more. And some of them do not offer counter service. Ideally I would like walkin counter service. 

Well, just pay the cash into your personal bank account its legit/earned and pay via bank transfer ?? deposits in personal bank account don't come with any fee - I don't see why you are making things so difficult for yourself  

 

If you wonder why dealers are reluencent to take cash 

Read up & look into the case against James Stunt and laundering over £200million "dirty" cash via gold purchases that ran through 2021-2022

https://www.google.com/search?q="james+stunt"+gold+daily+mail&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB918GB918&oq="james+stunt"+gold+daily+mail+&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIGCAEQRRg80gEIMzIxNWowajeoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 

Sadly the "intermediary" (dealer/seller ) is just as liable as "middle man" in this day and age

Cash just brings them too much risk - hence the bank transfer only rules now for most 

 

[Tn21]

It's clearly evident that dealers are a no go for your situation. 

In terms of buying items for cash your best of buying individual items of fellow forum members for your cash. The folks below have some great items for sale but you would have to discuss with them the possible terms

 

@Fenlander1

@BritStacker

@ST1986

@Lyrinn

[Earthmetal]

Some strange opinions here, along with some holier-than-thou attitudes.🤔.

I sold a car last year, £9,500. The bloke turned up with cash when he collected it. Didn't faze me a bit. What's the problem?

Worth bearing in mind that large amounts of cash can be legitimately sent via Royal Mail Special Delivery. With that in mind, most sellers on here ought to accept it. I certainly would.

I've been in full time employment since I left school in the 1980's and have paid income tax in full every week since then. If someone wants to avoid some of that, and has the means to do so, doesn't bother me one bit, good luck to 'em I say.

[theman73]

On 02/02/2024 at 00:08, Sahil said:

Also my bank charges 4 % cash handling fee. 

Can I ask you what bank it is?

[Dalriada83]

Trust no one mt friend . . . No One!

[Beanyman]

On 02/02/2024 at 07:03, GoldDiggerDave said:

There are already very many benefits to storing your wealth in gold bullion, gold bullion companies are right to charge for cash, no doubt you like I do get charged for trying to deposit cash.   Cash is just becoming an obsolete liability.  The days for "discount for cash" is pointless as you are left holding the baby with cash.   Not illegal to take cash just having to drive to the bank queue up and get the 3rd degree is not worth the hassle.

Possibly you should start to also charge people for giving you cash then you can buy gold with the cash and not be out of pocket.  

Not illegal to take cash just having to drive to the bank queue up and get the 3rd degree is not worth the hassle.

That's exactly what they want to make us go CBDC the we are all stuffed. Unless we vote for Donald Trump to be our PM