Am I mad....?

[Rll1288]

At the TCC auction  a 2oz Silver Proof PF70 Three graces went for £1,950.00, a PF69 went for £800.00 and an ungraded one went for £1,550.00....... ! 

[Simmoleon]

Welcome to the world of modern graded coins - all logic is out the window

[Shinus73]

No, it’s nuts. 
The devaluing of 69’s in relation to 70’s, or the potential for a 70, continues at pace. 
I’m buying the PF / MS 69’s at the right price, hoping it reverses a bit.

[Rll1288]

I agree... 69s to me ... right now are great value... considering a Una & The Lion PF65 went for £1400.00 and the guy who bought the ungraded one may not even get a 69 grade haha

[LawrenceChard]

35 minutes ago, Rll1288 said:

At the TCC auction  a 2oz Silver Proof PF70 Three graces went for £1,950.00, a PF69 went for £800.00 and an ungraded one went for £1,550.00....... ! 

69 is one of my favourite numbers!😎

[Rll1288]

1 minute ago, LawrenceChard said:

69 is one of my favourite numbers!😎

🤣🤣

[Coverte]

That is the nature of auctions, I have seen bidding wars escalating many different items well in excess of their normal market value.

Set yourself a limit and stick to it, whilst I've bagged some great deals, equally there's little to be gained at an auction unless the price is competitive.

[jultorsk]

It's completely nuts.

The only thing that stood out is that the PF69 did not have a box+COA. As it so happens I have one of those standing available, yours for a mere £750.... 😅

[dicker]

I agree with the above - it does not make a great deal of sense.  

I took a decision a while back to steer clear of the 'New Issues' that generate odd prices that I cannot work out.  Victoria Sovereigns and back dated Kooks for me - the prices for these make far more sense!

Best

Tim 

[SilverJacks]

I noticed this happening with the 2002 half sovereign also. The raw coin sold for the mean of 69 and 70 prices.

I think it makes 69s the best buy, although @LawrenceChard may struggle with the concept of them being more attractive than they already are.

I don't like how it encourages people to crack open slabs and sell on raw though. It seems dishonest to intentionally leave out information to boost the items value, and how would anyone tell? I'm not saying that has or hasn't happened here, but obviously can and will happen more often if these prices are the going rate... Just my opinion anyway...

Edited August 31, 2021 by SilverJacks

[AppleZippoandMetronome]

I think grading in the volumes its happening makes this sort of behaviour inevitable. In every collecting market collectors generally want the best examples of what is out there. Grading sets out a very clear scale with a very clear pursuit for everyone - that 70. If its not perfect, if its not the best example, if its not that 70 then people don't want it. So you get a distortion of values...  70s selling for more than they're likely honestly worth and 69s going for under. Ungraded do better because there is still a chance they could be a 70...

I've said it once and I'll say it again...  I really don't like grading. I really wish it had been left as a tool for authentication as opposed to what it has become. I've been collecting various things for more than 20 years now and slowly as grading entered each market it seemed to do more harm than good. People inevitably default to purchasing and pursuing the grade instead of the coin/other collectable. The coin almost comes secondary to the grade in many cases as people rid themselves of examples that didn't quite reach that 70. Its a shame.

[Simmoleon]

The most painful part of grading is historic coins which end up as details grades because it has slight scratches or cleaned at some time in the past (and before grading was a thing). I have a few coins in details which are fantastic coins but the premium is non-existent because of their grades. I agree that the purpose of grading has to a degree become distorted in recent years and now many people are being the slabs and not buying the coins.

I have a few graded sovereigns and eye appeal and grade are in some cases miles apart - I have a coin in 62 which is far more appealing than many of my higher grade coins. Also telling the difference between a 69 and 70 can be challenging but it’s the same with AU58 to MS63 sovereigns in my experience; some grades and examples completely baffle me.

[dicker]

25 minutes ago, AppleZippoandMetronome said:

I've said it once and I'll say it again...  I really don't like grading. I really wish it had been left as a tool for authentication as opposed to what it has become. I've been collecting various things for more than 20 years now and slowly as grading entered each market it seemed to do more harm than good. People inevitably default to purchasing and pursuing the grade instead of the coin/other collectable. The coin almost comes secondary to the grade in many cases as people rid themselves of examples that didn't quite reach that 70. Its a shame.

I completely agree - and in my view is a very sane perspective.  

With the sale of 'Collectors universe' (Parent company of PCGS) I think that grading will be pushed harder which will not help the problem.....the investors will want to drive growth of the business, which will mean more grading and people chasing grades and not looking at the coins.

Best

Dicker

[daca]

3 hours ago, Rll1288 said:

At the TCC auction  a 2oz Silver Proof PF70 Three graces went for £1,950.00, a PF69 went for £800.00 and an ungraded one went for £1,550.00....... ! 

Nope, you are not mad, but apparently the TCC buyers  are ....

[Rll1288]

1 hour ago, Simmoleon said:

The most painful part of grading is historic coins which end up as details grades because it has slight scratches or cleaned at some time in the past (and before grading was a thing). I have a few coins in details which are fantastic coins but the premium is non-existent because of their grades. I agree that the purpose of grading has to a degree become distorted in recent years and now many people are being the slabs and not buying the coins.

I have a few graded sovereigns and eye appeal and grade are in some cases miles apart - I have a coin in 62 which is far more appealing than many of my higher grade coins. Also telling the difference between a 69 and 70 can be challenging but it’s the same with AU58 to MS63 sovereigns in my experience; some grades and examples completely baffle me.

I agree I had a couple of really nice sovs that were deemed "cleaned" and I was told by someone there were just melt value...... yet another i had as MS61 was in worse condition... Bah Humbug to grading I say

[LawrenceChard]

2 hours ago, SilverJacks said:

I noticed this happening with the 2002 half sovereign also. The raw coin sold for the mean of 69 and 70 prices.

I think it makes 69s the best buy, although @LawrenceChard may struggle with the concept of them being more attractive than they already are.

I don't like how it encourages people to crack open slabs and sell on raw though. It seems dishonest to intentionally leave out information to boost the items value, and how would anyone tell? I'm not saying that has or hasn't happened here, but obviously can and will happen more often if these prices are the going rate... Just my opinion anyway...

I remember being on holiday in a place called Castiglione della Pescaia, in Tuscany, Italy. I saw a very attractive looking Italian girl with a "69" tee-shirt. I didn't manage to get a photo, which was slightly disappointing. Later I saw a woman with "70" on her tee-shirt, and I was not remotely interested in taking her photo. A definite case of preferring 69 rather than 70!

 

[SilverJacks]

35 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

I remember being on holiday in a place called Castiglione della Pescaia, in Tuscany, Italy. I saw a very attractive looking Italian girl with a "69" tee-shirt. I didn't manage to get a photo, which was slightly disappointing. Later I saw a woman with "70" on her tee-shirt, and I was not remotely interested in taking her photo. A definite case of preferring 69 rather than 70!

 

Was that because it was a badge saying "70 today"..?

[LawrenceChard]

10 minutes ago, SilverJacks said:

Was that because it was a badge saying "70 today"..?

I think both of them may have said ... "today / oggi" 😎

[Widsith]

(Sneaking in: Thanks Lawrence, you have sent me some items and I would like to thank you for them (unsneak))

[Coverte]

3 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

I think both of them may have said ... "today / oggi" 😎

 

Are you sure it was not "today/Oggle" ...  .... 

[HillWalkerDundee]

23 hours ago, Rll1288 said:

 

 

23 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

69 is one of my favourite numbers!😎

I am dyslexic. I missed out on so much in life 🙂

[SidS]

I believe (as I once stated on Collectors Universe, and on other coin forums) that the whole slabbing phenomenon will lead to people collecting plastic tombs and the numbers printed on them (grade inflation t'boot) rather than the actual coins themselves.

I envision there will soon be slabs to encase historic slabs, when people start collecting the plastic itself. Look I've got an old PCGS slab...

Edited September 1, 2021 by SidS

[kena]

There is also the drive/competition aspect mode some people get into where every coin that have needs to be the highest grade so that they can have the highest ranking set.

What happened to the days of buying the coin and not the holder.  Sometimes, I miss the good old days when the bulk of what the mints did was make coins for circulation.  I sometimes look at an old coin that circulation and wonder where it was been, who has touched it, and so on.

In my opinion, buying a graded coin would be done, to ensure that you are not buying a fake or altered coin.

[SidS]

2 minutes ago, kena said:

There is also the drive/competition aspect mode some people get into where every coin that have needs to be the highest grade so that they can have the highest ranking set.

What happened to the days of buying the coin and not the holder.  Sometimes, I miss the good old days when the bulk of what the mints did was make coins for circulation.  I sometimes look at an old coin that circulation and wonder where it was been, who has touched it, and so on.

In my opinion, buying a graded coin would be done, to ensure that you are not buying a fake or altered coin.

I could not agree more with this. 👍

[Chorlton]

One thing to watch with grading is it sets a price range for the coin. PF70 doesn't suffer from this as it is the top grade and the price goes up with no ceiling. A PF69 or lower will normally not go above a certain price relative to the price of a PF70.