Coins of the Realm- Members Co-Op

[NGMD]

I have been working behind the scenes with @CoinsOfTheRealmAuctions and approval from @ChrisSilver about assisting the members who choose to bid on their auctions. My idea is to be transparent with Bids/Lots against each other unless you wish to ‘Duke it out’ bidding.

It will also be a place to discuss queries like logging in, registering to bid and consignment questions etc.

It is also good publicity for COTR to help grow their auction awareness within TSF.

Please could we keep it factual and not a place to vent or inappropriate comments.

I will post all the details of the next auction separately.

 

Format: 

Title: Coins of the Realm Auction XX

Date XXXX. Live Online. X Lots.

This is free bit of advertising for a Site Sponsor but also an assist on members wanting to bid in an auction/sign up/consign your items to auction.

This will save members out bidding each other and understanding how COTR works with emphasis on no addition ‘fees’ on your bid (except P@P) or signing up.

1. Important to ‘Register to Bid’ even if you have signed up.

2. You can contact COTR directly through TSF and are very helpful and prompt.

3. Voucher discount for Premium memberships.

4. Post below the Lot number you are bidding on.

5. Brief of the item bidding on to save duplicate lots.

If you want to outbid on the same item then that’s fair game. It is worth mentioning that duplicate coins can be occasionally listed under different ‘LOTS’.

 

Anything else you would like to see, comment below.

[James32]

I'm going to go there. I want lower starting prices 😆 there's an awful lot of "passed" lots lately and it can't be great for @CoinsOfTheRealmAuctions to be going through the hassle of running auctions with so many missed opportunities. I appreciate/expect this is most likely down to the consignee stating a reserve, but I strongly believe that with lower starting prices..a heck of a lot more interest/bids will transpire. 

Think of an auction on TSF, when a seller starts the auction with a "high-ish" minimum bid, they get little to no bids.

[Shinus73]

57 minutes ago, James32 said:

I'm going to go there. I want lower starting prices 😆 there's an awful lot of "passed" lots lately and it can't be great for @CoinsOfTheRealmAuctions to be going through the hassle of running auctions with so many missed opportunities. I appreciate/expect this is most likely down to the consignee stating a reserve, but I strongly believe that with lower starting prices..a heck of a lot more interest/bids will transpire. 

Think of an auction on TSF, when a seller starts the auction with a "high-ish" minimum bid, they get little to no bids.

Exactly this. 
Several examples recently where I would have bid on Sovereigns or 1/4 Oz gold if the starting price had been £20/£30 lower.

[Shinus73]

Also, I have no intention of telling anybody what I intend to bid on. 😁

[JamesH]

5 hours ago, Shinus73 said:

Also, I have no intention of telling anybody what I intend to bid on.

This. Whether bidding against a fellow TSF member or someone off site, I have a maximum I’m willing to pay so not sure how letting others know I’m bidding changes that 

[Petra]

Things will never change whatever you hope or do. Either on here as an auction or in a sale room people know what they paid for an item/what it is worth and obviously don’t want to lose money. Auction houses don’t like reserves. Some will start lower than the reserve hoping to get over the line, others won’t start any lower. Everyone likes to think they will get a bargain, however, nowadays that is unlikely to happen with high value items. Any auction having lots of unsold items does have a problem, however, they either need to look at their operations or realise that actually not all these high value slabbed or otherwise coins will sell on the day. Constantly having sales of coins being sold for potentially thousands of pounds is trawling a reasonably small pool of buyers, even these people have limits!

[CoinsOfTheRealmAuctions]

@NGMD Thank you for taking the time to set up a discussion area for our auction. Just to reiterate we do not share any bidding information and whilst we cannot control if customers want to discuss bidding we suspect most will not want to make this public knowledge.

With regards to the running of the auction,  we have strived to create a transparent platform for customers to sell and buy. As far as I am aware we are now the only auction to offer - 0% Buyers Premium, A Free phone number to contact us on and reserves for our consigners. Our 10% commission (which is lower if you are a TSF member) is one of the lowest in the industry. We intend to continue to offer this great service with the help and support of our customers. 

We do our upmost to start coins as low as possible, and a good indication of the reserve can be usually be found on the low estimate. When a coin is bid at the start price and doesn't meet reserve the item will not sell, however often reserves are lowered during the pre-bidding stage so we actively encourage pre bidding as the reserve CAN be altered during the auction. It will never be higher, but it can be lowered if the consigner agrees.

Unlike most auctions we are 90% about consignments - meaning we do not buy the stock and auction it off ourselves. Being a fairly new auction we rely on the consignments from the general public which can be challenging managing  expectations. We have other challengers also including the moving gold price and the moving market. Of course we want every lot to sell, but this is not typical of most auctions especially one which is still building it's audience. Recently the Royal Mint had an auction where just 40'odd Lots sold out of 182,  https://auction.royalmint.com/auctions/catalog/id/38?page=2  - They obviously charge buyers premium, but still The Royal Mint - the most well known producer of coinage struggled. 

I like to take the positives about what we have created and push forward this idea of 0% buyers premium auctions. It makes the process so much simpler for the customer and we are looking in ways to keep this going. The best thing TSF members can do is support us - because if we don't get the support of the general public then everyone is back to paying 6%, 18%, 22% and above...if you enjoy buying your coins in this way. 

Thank you everyone for your interest and we hope you will continue to support our family run Auction.

Regards

Louise Moreland

admin@coinsoftherealm.org

0800 169 1066

 

[Shinus73]

I agree that 0% is the simplest approach, but in reality it makes no difference to what I’m willing to pay. If a 6, 10, 18% commission applies, then I will bid less accordingly.

The issue currently is that many starting prices are 10-15% above what the market is willing to pay, so 0% is irrelevant. I understand that this is driven by seller’s expectations, but they seem to expect the market from 3-4 years ago and not the current one.

[CoinsOfTheRealmAuctions]

@Shinus73 I understand what you are saying and I do agree on occasions, however if you take an example of the last auction Lot 12 (which was the first sovereign not sold) - this lot started at £400 -1852 Shield Back Victoria Sovereign reserve was £470. I have just done a search online and cannot find a single sovereign of this year under £515 advertised that is in stock. Prices will always be varied. I agree sometimes they are too high, and some times very reasonably priced. The coin didn't sell, but what I've come to realise is just because something doesn't sell - it doesn't mean the price is too high. The same coin could easily sell for £550 in another auction. We have had this happen on so many occasions. The reserve has been lowered and then it sold for much higher than the initial reserve.  It just depends on the audience on that day, the image and a number of other factors including gold price on the day, and outside events which are not always in our control. We can start every Lot at £1.00 but if the reserves is £500 and the highest bid is £300 it won't sell. 

If there are any customers on here that would like to submit their coins at 10% below the gold price or even at spot, and let them run without reserve we are very interested in hearing from you. Please do get in touch. 

 

0800 169 1066

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shinus73]

12 minutes ago, CoinsOfTheRealmAuctions said:

If there are any customers on here that would like to submit their coins at 10% below the gold price or even at spot, and let them run without reserve we are very interested in hearing from you. Please do get in touch. 

 

Clearly, under these circumstances, I prefer buying to selling. 🙂

[CoinsOfTheRealmAuctions]

@Shinus73 Running this monthly auction and finding those customers who are willing to put their coins up without some type of reserve is extremely difficult. We do get collections submitted where we are given the reigns to sell and list at the prices we believe are fair, but as you can appreciate it's not easy to provide that month in month out. 

We really do appreciate everyone who takes the time to look and bid though and we will keep striving to get the bargains in there. 😜👍 Hopefully you'll see more of these as we grow. 

 

[JamesH]

FWIW I’ve enjoyed your auctions thus far.  Have purchased a few bits including a couple of special years in your latest auction on Wednesday last. I love the 0% buyers premium and really do think it sets you apart from other auctions. Didn’t like paying postage twice for items bought in the same auction but maybe they’re not sent together? Sellers want assurances, buyers want bargains. Can’t please everyone all of the time so for now, I enjoy what you’ve put together and where the pricing is right (for me) I’ll keep bidding. Thanks Louise/Dan 👍🏼

[Charliemouse]

On 01/09/2023 at 00:06, Shinus73 said:

Also, I have no intention of telling anybody what I intend to bid on. 😁

Perhaps I am naïve, but I am genuinely interested in why you think this way.  Please do not take it as criticism.  I want to learn.

Gaming Theory, the branch of mathematics that covers this sort of thing, shows that collaboration is always better for the bidders than isolation.

If isolated bidders will always pay more on average, why keep your intentions secret?  Possible reasons I can think of (some more valid than others):

• You do not want to advertise to others what you consider might be a bargain.
• You believe someone else might risk purchasing an item they do not want, just to drive up the price to spite you.
• You believe sellers would use the information to increase their prices.
• You think you can beat the average by being the lone wolf.  'Better to pay more on ten items to get that one bargain.'
• Privacy-related "it's no one else's business" social etiquette.
• Or similarly, a moral code where you believe it is unfair to collaborate.

Have I missed anything?

Again, I am not condoning either approach.  I am just interested.

[NGMD]

23 minutes ago, Charliemouse said:

Perhaps I am naïve, but I am genuinely interested in why you think this way.  Please do not take it as criticism.  I want to learn.

Gaming Theory, the branch of mathematics that covers this sort of thing, shows that collaboration is always better for the bidders than isolation.

If isolated bidders will always pay more on average, why keep your intentions secret?  Possible reasons I can think of (some more valid than others):

• You do not want to advertise to others what you consider might be a bargain.
• You believe someone else might risk purchasing an item they do not want, just to drive up the price to spite you.
• You believe sellers would use the information to increase their prices.
• You think you can beat the average by being the lone wolf.  'Better to pay more on ten items to get that one bargain.'
• Privacy-related "it's no one else's business" social etiquette.
• Or similarly, a moral code where you believe it is unfair to collaborate.

Have I missed anything?

Again, I am not condoning either approach.  I am just interested.

Completely nailed it.

[Shinus73]

4 hours ago, Charliemouse said:

Perhaps I am naïve, but I am genuinely interested in why you think this way.  Please do not take it as criticism.  I want to learn.

Gaming Theory, the branch of mathematics that covers this sort of thing, shows that collaboration is always better for the bidders than isolation.

If isolated bidders will always pay more on average, why keep your intentions secret?  Possible reasons I can think of (some more valid than others):

• You do not want to advertise to others what you consider might be a bargain.
• You believe someone else might risk purchasing an item they do not want, just to drive up the price to spite you.
• You believe sellers would use the information to increase their prices.
• You think you can beat the average by being the lone wolf.  'Better to pay more on ten items to get that one bargain.'
• Privacy-related "it's no one else's business" social etiquette.
• Or similarly, a moral code where you believe it is unfair to collaborate.

Have I missed anything?

Again, I am not condoning either approach.  I am just interested.

Just the first one.

I keep it very simple. I have a maximum I will go to for any given coin. I don’t understand how telling somebody that I intend to bid on it would help me.

[Spyder]

Having just stumbled across this thread, there is one major thing are am not comfortable with.  

Collaboration with other TSF members might benefit the bidder, but will definitely not benefit the seller. 

Imagine if this was happening on a TSF auction. No one would ever put anything up for auction again. This would destroy any trust.  I am sure Chris wouldn't stand for it.

The whole point of an auction is the fun of winning and hopefully still get a deal.   Telling others what you want to bid on in the hope that others step aside for you is underhanded tactics against the sellers.   

Remember without sellers, there be no auction.

[refero]

On 02/09/2023 at 16:21, CoinsOfTheRealmAuctions said:

Running this monthly auction and finding those customers who are willing to put their coins up without some type of reserve is extremely difficult. We do get collections submitted where we are given the reigns to sell and list at the prices we believe are fair, but as you can appreciate it's not easy to provide that month in month out. 

We really do appreciate everyone who takes the time to look and bid though and we will keep striving to get the bargains in there. 😜👍 Hopefully you'll see more of these as we grow. 

Good morning Louise, and first of all thanks for your posts. Its always great in my opionion to be able to communicate directly with an auctioneer...

I have a couple of comments with regard to your auctions (i think i bought a couple of times in the past);

- as pointed already, 0% commission works more on menthal basis than concretely.. assuming all bidders are participating with a fully awareness of the value of lots/coins, they will just adjust their maximum bid-s according to the rights on hammer... but, as you surely know, an auction brings also variuos irrational aspects, and the 0% commission has indeed a strong impact...but if you correctly want to be "tempting" for the buyers (and thats where i have been criticising in the past) i dont understand why sometimes (often?) your starting prices are just "finished" ones. I'm ok with a reserve, which will always protect the owner of a lot, but i know from personal experience that i m much more interested and intrigued in participating (just inventing..) to a lot where my maximum final bid/limit is 500gbp if this lot starts at 300 rather than 480. Everyone that participates in an auction wants (or likes to think he's going to) get a bargain. Even few pounds. Otherwise why bothering? there are dealers around, and severals, for fixed and "finished" prices. Also, when you are in a bid war, you might end (it happened to me few times) up paying more (sometimes much more!) than your original maximum limit. Bid fever i call it. Too high entring prices kill all of that

- why are all of your lots listed randomly? what would be the advantage on that? sometimes i have few time to check auctions and lots and if they are listed in a chronological (or per type) order i can quickly assess if there s something i m interested in. When it comes to CoTR i find the list confusing and time consuming, and i risk to miss something i m interested in (and that is a potential loss for you)

hope this helps, best regards

Alberto

Edited September 16, 2023 by refero

[CoinsOfTheRealmAuctions]

@refero Hi Alberto - We do start most Lots lower than the reserve now, there have been some occasions when we have started Lots at the reserve but like most young auctions we have tested different methods to see what works best for our auction. In an ideal world we would start every Lot low and let them run, but for obvious reasons that cannot happen all the time. Sometimes, it does and I love to watch the bidding then. I wish more people would take a gamble and try this as it can achieve much greater results. We are also aware how frustrating it can be to bid on a lot, be the highest bidder and lose to the reserve. Hence why sometimes we start nearer the reserve. I do assure you it's not as simple as people think it is keeping  everyone happy. 

I am sorry to hear that the mix up of the Lots puts you off as I get many customers telling me they prefer it this way. The advantage of mixing the lots is exactly opposite to what you have said -exposure. More people view coins they might not if they were in perfect order. Many tell me that it's more interesting to watch too, and another reason we do it like that is because every month we get last minute consignments. So if we organised it as you suggest (like every other auction) we would not be able to accept last minute consignments. Also, in this case duplications they could not be accepted as this would compromise the coin next to it.  So mixing up means we can separate those duplicates. If you view the auction at the beginning and we have 120 lots - often that can end up being 160 lots by the end of the auction. Again, in an ideal world people would consign months in advance. Unfortunately, most do not. This auction is NOT supported by our own stock. The auction is mostly consigners, supported by a few dealers.

If you are looking for a specific denomination e.g.  Sovereigns -you can use the search bar to do this. 

I have come to realise you can't please everyone all of the time- I hope one day you might change your mind and give us another try. 

Best regards

 

Louise

 

[Divmad]

I've just come across your platform, thanks to the TSF Forum.

Two questions. 

In what way do TSF members benefit financially from bidding successfully, or selling?

Frequency of auctions, and next one up?

[ChrisSilver]

15 hours ago, Divmad said:

In what way do TSF members benefit financially from bidding successfully, or selling?

There are different vouchers available for different Premium Members groups when bidding and auctioning at COR, please see the topic below for full details and break downs: