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Posted

A quick note for members not resident in the UK, where I am.

Obviously, the pricings I give are based on the UK tech market, including VAT at 20%, as of the end of 2023.

My experience of the US market is that the prices will be roughly the same in USD as I give in GBP, but of course you may need to contend with sales taxes where you are.

Other countries' markets will vary, but the general advice for what you will need to buy doesn't change.

12 Beginner Tips for Better Coin Photos

Everything you need to take great coin photos

Douglas Hubbard: Never attribute to malice or stupidity that which can be explained by moderately rational individuals following incentives in a complex system of interactions.

Carl Sagan: One of the great commandments of science is, "Mistrust arguments from authority."

Posted

Something I've found with taking pictures of coins that have a satin finish (e.g. sovereigns or ASE's) is that a small spot in place of the second panel will do a better job of highlighting the coin's finish.  If you're trying to capture the lustre of the coin, the anisotropic (directional) reflection from the finish will show up better with a point like source.  Maybe I should do a write up about this at some point.

 

 

The Sovereign is the quintessentially British coin.  It has a German queen on the front, an Italian waiter on the back, and half of them were made in Australia.

 

Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, Silverlocks said:

Something I've found with taking pictures of coins that have a satin finish (e.g. sovereigns or ASE's) is that a small spot in place of the second panel will do a better job of highlighting the coin's finish.  If you're trying to capture the lustre of the coin, the anisotropic (directional) reflection from the finish will show up better with a point like source.  Maybe I should do a write up about this at some point.

It's a good idea as an alternative to a second panel light.  Tricky bit is matching the colours of the two lights.

Do you recommend any with a variable colour temperature, or a reliable known temperature?  You want to be able to match the lights to each other, at a specific value.  Mixing colours is always going to be bad, even with a grey card.  I looked around but couldn't find any spot lights that weren't £200+ with variable temperature.

I found this, which is fixed to 5600K, but you need to have a panel light that is also 5600K or can be adjusted to 5600K.

 

Edited by Charliemouse

12 Beginner Tips for Better Coin Photos

Everything you need to take great coin photos

Douglas Hubbard: Never attribute to malice or stupidity that which can be explained by moderately rational individuals following incentives in a complex system of interactions.

Carl Sagan: One of the great commandments of science is, "Mistrust arguments from authority."

Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Charliemouse said:

It's a good idea as an alternative to a second panel light.  Tricky bit is matching the colours of the two lights.

Do you recommend any with a variable colour temperature, or a reliable known temperature?  You want to be able to match the lights to each other, at a specific value.  Mixing colours is always going to be bad, even with a grey card.  I looked around but couldn't find any spot lights that weren't £200+ with variable temperature.

I found this, which is fixed to 5600K, but you need to have a panel light that is also 5600K or can be adjusted to 5600K.

The ones I've been using are these smallrig ones.  They are 5600k only.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SMALLRIG-Rainproof-Filters-Photography-Action/dp/B09N8LXD67

Pretty much everything I'm using is 5600k.  These panel lights, originally bought as they have a smart phone clip, which has two sets of LEDs, one at 5600k. 

https://www.amazon.com/Newmowa-Rechargeable-Adjusted-Android-Conference/dp/B08BCH841V/

And this ring light, which has a range that covers 5600k.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09GK4S2T1?th=1

I have no idea how accurate the listed colour temperatures really are (these are relatively cheap lights), but I can calibrate with a grey card and get something that comes out looking like gold, which is a lot better than I was getting before.  Ergo, I presume they're all producing something close enough to 5600k that it doesn't matter.

I did try getting a small light box before, but it was too small.  I might try getting one about 40cm across and see if I can make that work.  My major problem is constrained space.

Maybe I'll have to give up and splash out on some prosumer level gear at some point.

Edited by Silverlocks

The Sovereign is the quintessentially British coin.  It has a German queen on the front, an Italian waiter on the back, and half of them were made in Australia.

 

Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Silverlocks said:

The ones I've been using are these smallrig ones.  They are 5600k only.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SMALLRIG-Rainproof-Filters-Photography-Action/dp/B09N8LXD67

Pretty much everything I'm using is 5600k.  These panel lights, originally bought as they have a smart phone clip, which has two sets of LEDs, one at 5600k. 

Darn it!  The Smallrig one is what I meant to link to, but got my Copy/Paste wrong.  I've fixed the link in my comment.

32 minutes ago, Silverlocks said:

I have no idea how accurate the listed colour temperatures really are (these are relatively cheap lights), but I can calibrate with a grey card and get something that comes out looking like gold, which is a lot better than I was getting before.  Ergo, I presume they're all producing something close enough to 5600k that it doesn't matter.

5600K is a good middle ground, being very similar to 'normal' daylight.  As long as you are within about 300 above or below, I doubt anyone is going to see a difference.

32 minutes ago, Silverlocks said:

I did try getting a small light box before, but it was too small.  I might try getting one about 40cm across and see if I can make that work.  My major problem is constrained space.

You only need a light box if you really can't control the light in the room.  If you don't need one, don't use one, because they add a big hassle factor.  Just moving things around inside a small box is a pain.

32 minutes ago, Silverlocks said:

Maybe I'll have to give up and splash out on some prosumer level gear at some point.

I would always advise people to master the gear they have now.  Use it in new, creative ways, and experiment.  That's what's great about digital cameras - no consumable costs.

I think what you've been doing with the light cone, is a perfect example.

Plus, pro equipment will be bigger not smaller.  You get to the point where the equipment assumes you are in a dedicated studio space, whether that's a garage or a warehouse.  I have lighting rigs I can only use on location, because they are literally too big for my house.

Edited by Charliemouse

12 Beginner Tips for Better Coin Photos

Everything you need to take great coin photos

Douglas Hubbard: Never attribute to malice or stupidity that which can be explained by moderately rational individuals following incentives in a complex system of interactions.

Carl Sagan: One of the great commandments of science is, "Mistrust arguments from authority."

Posted
46 minutes ago, Charliemouse said:

[ . . . ]

You only need a light box if you really can't control the light in the room.  If you don't need one, don't use one, because they add a big hassle factor.  Just moving things around inside a small box is a pain.

One thing I can't easily do at the moment is get even ambient lighting onto the subject.  I can do some things with the cones or shining through tracing paper diffusers with a hole cut for the lens.  However, I'm wondering if I need to find a way to set up something like a light box that provides some even background lighting.

The Sovereign is the quintessentially British coin.  It has a German queen on the front, an Italian waiter on the back, and half of them were made in Australia.

 

Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Silverlocks said:

One thing I can't easily do at the moment is get even ambient lighting onto the subject.  I can do some things with the cones or shining through tracing paper diffusers with a hole cut for the lens.  However, I'm wondering if I need to find a way to set up something like a light box that provides some even background lighting.

Probably not for this thread.  Lighting is a massive topic, and I am very much still learning.

What I can say is that lightboxes are subtractive, not additive.  If you have light you cannot control, like big windows or room lights, then they can be useful.  But don't use them to try to add light, particularly not coins.  I can understand for larger product photography where creating an entire scene, with background and foreground elements, can be important.  But for coins, you probably just want to light the coin.

That's why I advise against them, unless you actually have a problem of too much (of the wrong) light.  They do tend to make practical things more complicated, not less.  Of course, if you are seeking perfection, where you want control of every aspect of the photograph, that's when they are really necessary.

If I wanted soft ambient light, I would look at a wide light panel, anything from 176 LED Panel to 660 LED Panel right up to 60x60cm flexible LED panel (actually very tempted to get one).

Edited by Charliemouse

12 Beginner Tips for Better Coin Photos

Everything you need to take great coin photos

Douglas Hubbard: Never attribute to malice or stupidity that which can be explained by moderately rational individuals following incentives in a complex system of interactions.

Carl Sagan: One of the great commandments of science is, "Mistrust arguments from authority."

Posted (edited)

.

 

Edited by Charliemouse

12 Beginner Tips for Better Coin Photos

Everything you need to take great coin photos

Douglas Hubbard: Never attribute to malice or stupidity that which can be explained by moderately rational individuals following incentives in a complex system of interactions.

Carl Sagan: One of the great commandments of science is, "Mistrust arguments from authority."

Posted
9 hours ago, Charliemouse said:

Probably not for this thread.  Lighting is a massive topic, and I am very much still learning.

What I can say is that lightboxes are subtractive, not additive.  If you have light you cannot control, like big windows or room lights, then they can be useful.  But don't use them to try to add light, particularly not coins.  I can understand for larger product photography where creating an entire scene, with background and foreground elements, can be important.  But for coins, you probably just want to light the coin.

That's why I advise against them, unless you actually have a problem of too much (of the wrong) light.  They do tend to make practical things more complicated, not less.  Of course, if you are seeking perfection, where you want control of every aspect of the photograph, that's when they are really necessary.

If I wanted soft ambient light, I would look at a wide light panel, anything from 176 LED Panel to 660 LED Panel right up to 60x60cm flexible LED panel (actually very tempted to get one).

I've also seen smaller soft boxes down to about 40cm across.  Maybe one of those on an angle-poise type arm might be useful?

The Sovereign is the quintessentially British coin.  It has a German queen on the front, an Italian waiter on the back, and half of them were made in Australia.

 

Posted
6 minutes ago, Silverlocks said:

I've also seen smaller soft boxes down to about 40cm across.  Maybe one of those on an angle-poise type arm might be useful?

For coins, I'd go with the 176.  It's a nice size (15x20cm) to fit on top of the camera, or a small pod.  I have something similar I use for backlighting.

The 660 would be a step up to light an entire scene.  That is frankly overkill for a coin, at 30x30cm excluding the barn doors, unless you want photograph large groups of coins.  But that is going to be tricky for lots of reasons.

But it is crazy good value, and gives you a very cheap and easy introduction into portrait photography for a heck of a lot less money than a full flash setup.

Finally, the 60x60 flexible panel looks interesting from a creative standpoint.  The fact you could curve it around something.  But I really don't see it anything other than a waste of money for coins.

12 Beginner Tips for Better Coin Photos

Everything you need to take great coin photos

Douglas Hubbard: Never attribute to malice or stupidity that which can be explained by moderately rational individuals following incentives in a complex system of interactions.

Carl Sagan: One of the great commandments of science is, "Mistrust arguments from authority."

Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Charliemouse said:

[ . . . ]

But it is crazy good value, and gives you a very cheap and easy introduction into portrait photography for a heck of a lot less money than a full flash setup.

I can't see myself getting into portrait photography - without even doing it I'm getting horror flashbacks of snot-nosed little darlings who won't sit still.

Edited by Silverlocks

The Sovereign is the quintessentially British coin.  It has a German queen on the front, an Italian waiter on the back, and half of them were made in Australia.

 

Posted
21 minutes ago, Silverlocks said:

I can't see myself getting into portrait photography - without even doing it I'm getting horror flashbacks of snot-nosed little darlings who won't sit still.

Quite.  A little out of scope.

12 Beginner Tips for Better Coin Photos

Everything you need to take great coin photos

Douglas Hubbard: Never attribute to malice or stupidity that which can be explained by moderately rational individuals following incentives in a complex system of interactions.

Carl Sagan: One of the great commandments of science is, "Mistrust arguments from authority."

Posted
42 minutes ago, Silverlocks said:

I can't see myself getting into portrait photography - without even doing it I'm getting horror flashbacks of snot-nosed little darlings who won't sit still.

So I'm not sure what you need.  A 30x30 panel light is too much.  But you are suggesting a 40x40 soft box, which in reality is much, much larger and more cumbersome.

I found the panel I use for background lighting: https://amzn.eu/d/jiRwVh4  It looks like an alphabet-soup brand, but actually they've been around a while and have online reviews.  I have found it excellent for the price, and has really good colour range and CRI.

The big advantage is that it is twice the area (14x7) than the little mini video lights (6x7), so you can create a much softer ambient light covering a wider area.

12 Beginner Tips for Better Coin Photos

Everything you need to take great coin photos

Douglas Hubbard: Never attribute to malice or stupidity that which can be explained by moderately rational individuals following incentives in a complex system of interactions.

Carl Sagan: One of the great commandments of science is, "Mistrust arguments from authority."

Posted
18 minutes ago, Charliemouse said:

So I'm not sure what you need.  A 30x30 panel light is too much.  But you are suggesting a 40x40 soft box, which in reality is much, much larger and more cumbersome.

I found the panel I use for background lighting: https://amzn.eu/d/jiRwVh4  It looks like an alphabet-soup brand, but actually they've been around a while and have online reviews.  I have found it excellent for the price, and has really good colour range and CRI.

The big advantage is that it is twice the area (14x7) than the little mini video lights (6x7), so you can create a much softer ambient light covering a wider area.

I think the little neumowa panels are a bit small.  Maybe a bigger panel will be enough.  I suspect this will be a case of trying various things and 'I'll know it when I see it.'

The Sovereign is the quintessentially British coin.  It has a German queen on the front, an Italian waiter on the back, and half of them were made in Australia.

 

Posted
4 hours ago, Charliemouse said:

So I'm not sure what you need.  A 30x30 panel light is too much.  But you are suggesting a 40x40 soft box, which in reality is much, much larger and more cumbersome.

I found the panel I use for background lighting: https://amzn.eu/d/jiRwVh4  It looks like an alphabet-soup brand, but actually they've been around a while and have online reviews.  I have found it excellent for the price, and has really good colour range and CRI.

The big advantage is that it is twice the area (14x7) than the little mini video lights (6x7), so you can create a much softer ambient light covering a wider area.

When you did pics like the Bond 1960s coin, was the lighting just the panel light and the coin pointed so nothing reflected in the fields?

The Sovereign is the quintessentially British coin.  It has a German queen on the front, an Italian waiter on the back, and half of them were made in Australia.

 

Posted
7 hours ago, Silverlocks said:

I think the little neumowa panels are a bit small.  Maybe a bigger panel will be enough.  I suspect this will be a case of trying various things and 'I'll know it when I see it.'

I'd recommend the one I have. It's over twice the area.  Or the step up is the Neewer 176 which is double again, but I don't have experience with it.

12 Beginner Tips for Better Coin Photos

Everything you need to take great coin photos

Douglas Hubbard: Never attribute to malice or stupidity that which can be explained by moderately rational individuals following incentives in a complex system of interactions.

Carl Sagan: One of the great commandments of science is, "Mistrust arguments from authority."

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