Just thinking out loud!

[stefffana]

Just now, Bigmarc said:

Highly likely! Ha at least you know I'm not a bot!

 

Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔Do we?🤔

[MrStacker]

I find it annoying that a lot of sellers edit their listings after they sell an item and remove pricing/details of the original listing. Some even completely edit their listing 2-3 weeks later thinking no one would pay attention and leave it all blank.

You can dispute it and give me a reason for it but I feel it is wrong. If you want members to focus on THE SILVER FORUM rather than dealers to get a "better deal" this approach of removing all details on completed listings shouldn't be encouraged. It definitely won't encourage members to trust or spend more time on TSF compared to dealers. Whether someone has missed out on your listing or not - they may have compared it to a dealer price and you never know they would be encouarged to wait it out for another member on TSF to list the same item or something similar and not immediately purchase it from a dealer at a higher price.

Completed listings help both future sellers and buyers. Moreso new members to the forum.

Also:

Recently I noticed a trait of certain sellers undercutting others. If you find someone has already listed a coin/bar for sale and you want to sell the same thing. Maybe wait for that to be sold then list yours? Especially if they aren't really known to be selling on a regular basis like more seasoned sellers as some of you are. I would classify it as a sign of respect and forum etiquette?

Off course with sovereigns and britannias I don't expect everyone to wait for one listing to be sold then list yours. It's common sense at the end of the day.

[stefffana]

4 minutes ago, MrStacker said:

I find it annoying that a lot of sellers edit their listings after they sell an item and remove pricing/details of the original listing. Some even completely edit their listing 2-3 weeks later thinking no one would pay attention and leave it all blank.

You can dispute it and give me a reason for it but I feel it is wrong. If you want members to focus on THE SILVER FORUM rather than dealers to get a "better deal" this approach of removing all details on completed listings shouldn't be encouraged. It definitely won't encourage members to trust or spend more time on TSF compared to dealers. Whether someone has missed out on your listing or not - they may have compared it to a dealer price and you never know they would be encouarged to wait it out for another member on TSF to list the same item or something similar and not immediately purchase it from a dealer at a higher price.

Completed listings help both future sellers and buyers. Moreso new members to the forum.

Also:

Recently I noticed a trait of certain sellers undercutting others. If you find someone has already listed a coin/bar for sale and you want to sell the same thing. Maybe wait for that to be sold then list yours? Especially if they aren't really known to be selling on a regular basis like more seasoned sellers as some of you are. I would classify it as a sign of respect and forum etiquette?

Off course with sovereigns and britannias I don't expect everyone to wait for one listing to be sold then list yours. It's common sense at the end of the day.

Yes! Yes! And Yes!

I agree. It looks like sellers are enshamed with their prices and want to erase any evidences. 

Also, this practice is discouraged by TSF T&C. See Guidelines:

 "6.2.2. The edit post feature is there to allow members to edit mistakes, and for users to update their trade topics; for example when their item(s) has sold, or their price has changed. Currently the system allows members to edit their posts up to 30 days from posting. Members may edit a completed trade listing to remove the sale price should they wish, though we prefer if this wasn't done in order to protect historical data so that members can see what prices similar items sold for. This is very helpful when a member is looking to price their item for sale. Please do not edit out what was sold. "

[James32]

10 minutes ago, MrStacker said:

I find it annoying that a lot of sellers edit their listings after they sell an item and remove pricing/details of the original listing. Some even completely edit their listing 2-3 weeks later thinking no one would pay attention and leave it all blank.

You can dispute it and give me a reason for it but I feel it is wrong. If you want members to focus on THE SILVER FORUM rather than dealers to get a "better deal" this approach of removing all details on completed listings shouldn't be encouraged. It definitely won't encourage members to trust or spend more time on TSF compared to dealers. Whether someone has missed out on your listing or not - they may have compared it to a dealer price and you never know they would be encouarged to wait it out for another member on TSF to list the same item or something similar and not immediately purchase it from a dealer at a higher price.

Completed listings help both future sellers and buyers. Moreso new members to the forum.

Also:

Recently I noticed a trait of certain sellers undercutting others. If you find someone has already listed a coin/bar for sale and you want to sell the same thing. Maybe wait for that to be sold then list yours? Especially if they aren't really known to be selling on a regular basis like more seasoned sellers as some of you are. I would classify it as a sign of respect and forum etiquette?

Off course with sovereigns and britannias I don't expect everyone to wait for one listing to be sold then list yours. It's common sense at the end of the day.

 

2 minutes ago, stefffana said:

Yes! Yes! And Yes!

I agree. It looks like sellers are enshamed with their prices and want to erase any evidences. 

Also, this practice is discouraged by TSF T&C. See Guidelines:

 "6.2.2. The edit post feature is there to allow members to edit mistakes, and for users to update their trade topics; for example when their item(s) has sold, or their price has changed. Currently the system allows members to edit their posts up to 30 days from posting. Members may edit a completed trade listing to remove the sale price should they wish, though we prefer if this wasn't done in order to protect historical data so that members can see what prices similar items sold for. This is very helpful when a member is looking to price their item for sale. Please do not edit out what was sold. "

Price items fairly and stop trying to squeeze every penny out of an item, the rest will be history 😀 

As for editing the prices, has it ever crossed your minds that the buyer has asked for that to be done? Believe it or not,there's a lot of very private individuals on here who's discretion is paramount. 

As for wiping out a sale entirely..that's for uncle Sam reasons I'd imagine. 

[Orpster]

7 minutes ago, MrStacker said:

Maybe wait for that to be sold then list yours? Especially if they aren't really known to be selling on a regular basis like more seasoned sellers as some of you are. I would classify it as a sign of respect and forum etiquette?

This part I fundamentally disagree with, sellers need to compete to keep prices keen.  Stops inexperienced buyers over-paying.  If I can undercut someone by enough to matter they are over pricing their items.

[codenamedtango]

3 minutes ago, James32 said:

As for editing the prices, has it ever crossed your minds that the buyer has asked for that to be done? Believe it or not,there's a lot of very private individuals on here who's discretion is paramount. 

Interesting, I hadn’t thought about someone asking for that to be done, but I can get it. 👌

[Zeuk]

22 minutes ago, Orpster said:

This part I fundamentally disagree with, sellers need to compete to keep prices keen.  Stops inexperienced buyers over-paying.  If I can undercut someone by enough to matter they are over pricing their items.

Would tend to agree, not much different to how the markets should work. 

[Petra]

33 minutes ago, codenamedtango said:

Interesting, I hadn’t thought about someone asking for that to be done, but I can get it. 👌

Pointless, you can just pm and nobody except the seller knows who bought the stuff. No publicity…. who do they think they are? Privacy?..  don’t come on here🤔😮🫢

[AOB]

28 minutes ago, Orpster said:

This part I fundamentally disagree with, sellers need to compete to keep prices keen.  Stops inexperienced buyers over-paying.  If I can undercut someone by enough to matter they are over pricing their items.

I would tend to agree, also when prices are still available on completed/ archived sales this allows us newcomers and future newbies to track the fluctuation of prices for an item.
We can see the going rate for an items we are looking to purchase on TSF.

[Zeuk]

2 minutes ago, AOB said:

I would tend to agree, also when prices are still available on completed/ archived sales this allows us newcomers and future newbies to track the fluctuation of prices for an item.
We can see the going rate for an items we are looking to purchase on TSF.

I’d love to see a database of the TSF spot price, I think it would be genuinely interesting 

[Silverlocks]

4 minutes ago, Zeuk said:

I’d love to see a database of the TSF spot price, I think it would be genuinely interesting 

You can get historical gold prices easily enough, so one could correlate sales with historical spot prices, although the listings are a bit free form to reliably scrape automatically.  It wouldn't be too hard to correlate spot to the listing date, though.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Silverlocks

[codenamedtango]

12 minutes ago, Petra said:

Pointless, you can just pm and nobody except the seller knows who bought the stuff. No publicity…. who do they think they are? Privacy?..  don’t come on here🤔😮🫢

There’s two angles here..

There’s one - let’s call it personal privacy, minimising / or at least trying to make it more difficult for information to be garnered about purchases and what people do with their fiat. Minimising, not removing, because lets face it - I’m sure there would be some way to find out the original postings said.

The second - there could be people out there that use TSF to get a good price and subsequently capitalise on it. Some people may feel that by having the original posted or purchased amount it could impact the resale of the item when they come to re-list. 

 

[Silverlocks]

4 minutes ago, codenamedtango said:

There’s two angles here..

There’s one - let’s call it personal privacy, minimising / or at least trying to make it more difficult for information to be garnered about purchases and what people do with their fiat. Minimising, not removing, because lets face it - I’m sure there would be some way to find out the original postings said.

The second - there could be people out there that use TSF to get a good price and subsequently capitalise on it. Some people may feel that by having the original posted or purchased amount it could impact the resale of the item when they come to re-list. 

 

I'm pretty sure the forum software keeps a revision history of the postings, which is reasonable in case one does have to go over the content for legal reasons.  Otherwise, there's very little stopping folks from posting a misleading listing and then editing it after the item is sold.

If one really wanted to get clever, it wouldn't be hard to set up something monitoring notifications and scraping the listings every time something gets posted.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Silverlocks

[James32]

4 minutes ago, codenamedtango said:

There’s two angles here..

There’s one - let’s call it personal privacy, minimising / or at least trying to make it more difficult for information to be garnered about purchases and what people do with their fiat. Minimising, not removing, because lets face it - I’m sure there would be some way to find out the original postings said.

The second - there could be people out there that use TSF to get a good price and subsequently capitalise on it. Some people may feel that by having the original posted or purchased amount it could impact the resale of the item when they come to re-list. 

 

Very good second point.

 

[AOB]

7 minutes ago, Zeuk said:

I’d love to see a database of the TSF spot price, I think it would be genuinely interesting 

Maybe if the listings were structure via an excel format, the info could be compiled then displayed in item tracker page which could show item description, year and sale price with percentage over spot at the time of creating the listing.

Could be a future development, only food for thought.

11 minutes ago, codenamedtango said:

There’s two angles here..

There’s one - let’s call it personal privacy, minimising / or at least trying to make it more difficult for information to be garnered about purchases and what people do with their fiat. Minimising, not removing, because lets face it - I’m sure there would be some way to find out the original postings said.

The second - there could be people out there that use TSF to get a good price and subsequently capitalise on it. Some people may feel that by having the original posted or purchased amount it could impact the resale of the item when they come to re-list. 

 

I also completely agree with your second point.

[MrStacker]

4 hours ago, James32 said:

 

Price items fairly and stop trying to squeeze every penny out of an item, the rest will be history 😀 

As for editing the prices, has it ever crossed your minds that the buyer has asked for that to be done? Believe it or not,there's a lot of very private individuals on here who's discretion is paramount. 

As for wiping out a sale entirely..that's for uncle Sam reasons I'd imagine. 

That’s understandable however for those that want to be discreet or for the so called “private individuals” the best thing would be to agree with the seller NOT to give each other feedback. Otherwise even if you delete the contents of the original listing – you can still find a way via feedback to “fill” the blank.

Also some sellers state that priority is given to buyers interested in “buying the lot”. I’ve seen it several times when someone is selling a batch or set of sovereigns for example. Nothing wrong with it but even that can draw attention so for the private individual best to discuss it privately with the seller.

As for the pricing – it should still be listed in my opinion. For example if seller is selling 25 sovereigns each at £385.

That’s fine. No need to completely remove it all after the sale is completed and closed. Everyone can work out what 25 x £385 is. I really don’t put emphasis on “who” bought it. Focus is on transparency of past and present prices. It helps everyone new and old.

 

4 hours ago, Orpster said:

This part I fundamentally disagree with, sellers need to compete to keep prices keen.  Stops inexperienced buyers over-paying.  If I can undercut someone by enough to matter they are over pricing their items.

“Sellers need to compete to keep prices keen”- if your intention is purely interested in sales, flipping and relisting. If the threshold of listed items per a week was at a substantial level then I would understand keeping prices keen and placing it as a priority. Everyone can work out and research coin and bar pricing before they say “yes please” to a listing on TSF.

Also, I disagree that it “stops” inexperienced buyers over paying. You only need to look at the new members section to read new members reasons for joining TSF. The majority are well aware of the dealers and their pricing. Some have been burnt and are fully aware or “awoken” now to the prices. Those who are not and “stay on” in the community take their time themselves to read across the forum before purchasing. Those who are unsure or completely new – can ask or consider options before actually purchasing. Listed sales items that don’t get sold are usually a sign in itself for pricing incorrectly.

The nature of the beast in any “market” is undercutting someone else for “better” returns.. I get that.

However, doesn’t necessarily apply here. For example: If x1 seller who is reshuffling their stack is listing a silver bullion coin at £35 and then within 24 hours an experienced and established seller (not interested in stacking long term or collecting) observes the new listing and immediately lists the same type of silver bullion coins at £30 each. Is that ideal and fair?

Some sellers have access to obtaining large quantities of bullion at below spot and sell it in parts at a much “reasonable” price on here compared to the average stacker/collector/buyer. So it’s already a disadvantage for the said buyer. That’s not ensuring that inexperienced buyers are not over paying for items. It’s intentionally and strategically jumping on the bandwagon to obtain a faster sales return from another sellers listing.

 

By all means buy, resell and relist but I feel there should be mutual respect amongst all sellers when it comes to selling the same items at the same time...

[Gordy]

9 minutes ago, MrStacker said:

That’s understandable however for those that want to be discreet or for the so called “private individuals” the best thing would be to agree with the seller NOT to give each other feedback. Otherwise even if you delete the contents of the original listing – you can still find a way via feedback to “fill” the blank.

Also some sellers state that priority is given to buyers interested in “buying the lot”. I’ve seen it several times when someone is selling a batch or set of sovereigns for example. Nothing wrong with it but even that can draw attention so for the private individual best to discuss it privately with the seller.

As for the pricing – it should still be listed in my opinion. For example if seller is selling 25 sovereigns each at £385.

That’s fine. No need to completely remove it all after the sale is completed and closed. Everyone can work out what 25 x £385 is. I really don’t put emphasis on “who” bought it. Focus is on transparency of past and present prices. It helps everyone new and old.

 

“Sellers need to compete to keep prices keen”- if your intention is purely interested in sales, flipping and relisting. If the threshold of listed items per a week was at a substantial level then I would understand keeping prices keen and placing it as a priority. Everyone can work out and research coin and bar pricing before they say “yes please” to a listing on TSF.

Also, I disagree that it “stops” inexperienced buyers over paying. You only need to look at the new members section to read new members reasons for joining TSF. The majority are well aware of the dealers and their pricing. Some have been burnt and are fully aware or “awoken” now to the prices. Those who are not and “stay on” in the community take their time themselves to read across the forum before purchasing. Those who are unsure or completely new – can ask or consider options before actually purchasing. Listed sales items that don’t get sold are usually a sign in itself for pricing incorrectly.

The nature of the beast in any “market” is undercutting someone else for “better” returns.. I get that.

However, doesn’t necessarily apply here. For example: If x1 seller who is reshuffling their stack is listing a silver bullion coin at £35 and then within 24 hours an experienced and established seller (not interested in stacking long term or collecting) observes the new listing and immediately lists the same type of silver bullion coins at £30 each. Is that ideal and fair?

Some sellers have access to obtaining large quantities of bullion at below spot and sell it in parts at a much “reasonable” price on here compared to the average stacker/collector/buyer. So it’s already a disadvantage for the said buyer. That’s not ensuring that inexperienced buyers are not over paying for items. It’s intentionally and strategically jumping on the bandwagon to obtain a faster sales return from another sellers listing.

 

By all means buy, resell and relist but I feel there should be mutual respect amongst all sellers when it comes to selling the same items at the same time...

well, that 3 minutes of my life i'll never get back

[Bigmarc]

1 hour ago, Gordy said:

well, that 3 minutes of my life i'll never get back

Shouldn't you be in bed.

 

[Bigmarc]

If you want trades to be private then don't order stuff of the internet. You don't even need to be a member to see sales posts, profiles and trading feedback all open for everyone to see.

[HerefordBullyun]

Slightly off topic - but dont be surprised if this "moaning thread" is in the next release of the Bullyun bugle, just saying...... Edit accordingly, in fact dont bother, its already been screen shotted.....  its worse than Gransnet

Edited January 9, 2023 by HerefordBullyun

[iacabu]

The topic regarding pricing is an interesting one. Is it showing disrespect to other members by undercutting them? No, not in my opinion. It's the nature of the beast, they're selling at a price they can sell at. Perhaps the seller with the higher price is selling at the wrong time based on what they paid, or is overcharging in the first place.

An example of this has just happened where a Sov was offered at £415 to a new member and within a few posts, someone else offered the same at £410. It would appear there were no hard feelings between the two sellers.

 

As far as privacy goes, I understand many don't want everyone to know they hold stacks of precious metals, that's the point of having an anonymous forum. Should they be allowed to hide prices? I think it's useful to the market for prices to be kept on view for record. I regularly do searches to see values of items and find it frustrating when it has been replaced with SOLD. If the buyer gets a bargain, great for them, but it doesn't necessarily dictate the achievable value of an item at resale. But if the price is removed, then so be it. And as suggested, many PM deals are done in private with no one the wiser.

Is anyone going out of their way to sift through masses of feedback to tally up a sales post with a buyer and a price? Unlikely.

[ArgentSmith]

 

8 minutes ago, HerefordBullyun said:

Slightly off topic - but dont be surprised if this "moaning thread" is in the next release of the Bullyun bugle, just saying...... Edit accordingly, in fact dont bother, its already been screen shotted.....  its worse than Gransnet

Are you moaning about the "moaning thread" ? 🤨

[Orpster]

27 minutes ago, ArgentSmith said:

 

Are you moaning about the "moaning thread" ? 🤨

Are you moaning about Bully moaning about the moaning thread? 🤪

[HerefordBullyun]

1 hour ago, ArgentSmith said:

 

Are you moaning about the "moaning thread" ? 🤨

Good moaning to you Sir too!

[JohnA1]

We should keep this thread alive for as long as it takes.

Use it for psychotherapy, bump it to feel better, share the joy🤤