Chorlton

A little advice for next time.  Ideally never mix gold and silver in an order from outside the UK.  It's just easier for customs declarations and sorting out any issues later.  If a parcel of gold is shipped by UPS, as soon as you have the tracking and the parcel has been picked up and is in transit, phone UPS.  Get through to the customs department and tell them you have a shipment containing only investment gold and want to put in the declaration.  They'll email you a form for you to sign and return and that should be it. 

I am starting to look more at older coins but just wanted a rough guide of grade and any other comments on the 1816 silver shilling with photos below. I can then use this as a guide for future purchases, all comments appreciated. 
 

I am starting to look more at older coins but just wanted a rough guide of grade and any other comments on the 1816 silver shilling with photos below. I can then use this as a guide for future purchases, all comments appreciated. 
 

I am starting to look more at older coins but just wanted a rough guide of grade and any other comments on the 1816 silver shilling with photos below. I can then use this as a guide for future purchases, all comments appreciated. 
 

Simply because it is a free market and vendors can set prices as they choose i.e. the markup over what they pay the mint.
For much bigger variances see the Forum Comparison page below!
Best
Dicker
https://www.thesilverforum.com/compare/
 

I use a spreadsheet for complete flexibility - and it works very well as I have complete control over it.  
 
I wouldn’t use an app because of the privacy aspect. 
 
Best
Dicker

I'm sorry to hear about your potential loss; crazy as it sounds, on those rare occasions I buy anything over a few pounds in value from ebay, I ask a family member to video the package oponing.......
Good luck in getting your cash back.

Very simple to get them tested to prove they are genuine. Why gamble on a random eBay auction as a seller and lose money ?

You may have read this already but this is helpful,
 

I have had similar where I paid but didn’t hear anything, but this was with people I had traded with several times, so I did not worry. 
 
Generally, most folk tell me that they have received funds immediately and will pop in the post tomorrow / the next day.  
 
I think some recent events have highlighted the importance of trading reputation points and also their overall behaviour on the forum.  99.999 pct are genuinely decent people, but check their stats.
All the best
Dicker

Specifically the managed payments system now means that because eBay have direct access one of your bank accounts they can take any amount out of that bank account anytime they want without informing you they are going to take money out  
this was NOT the case with PayPal as you could withdraw money out of PayPal the second it hit the account if you had good positive feedback. and if a genuine dispute happened down the line  you could then re fund your  PayPal account  and refund the buyer if needed , something I have happily done on the few occasions a buyer justifiably needed a refund 
so Now with the only option as managed payments. say you sell a high value  item on eBay, a gold coin, a silver bar, a car or watch in fact anything at all 
the buyer gets the item sent to them while eBay holds the payment to the seller a few days. then later after eBay has had the interest on the money from the sale  for 48 hrs or so, they drop it into your bank account and all seems good.  Then the buyer says a couple of weeks/ a month later.  oh the item never turned up or its not as they thought. they don't want it blah blah blah  
eBay always side with the buyer in any dispute real or imagined ! So  eBay then dip back into your bank account and refund the buyer without even needing to inform you.
 Possible ( highly likely )end result is buyer has said item and your cash and you have a bank account balance that's minus the funds from the sale without eBay even having to inform you they have deducted funds from your account.
For me personally its a no thank you even with a dedicated bank account set up for managed payments
hence my Ebay account being closed..
like I said a personal thing but im done with eBay due to this
Regards 
DB 
 
  
 

Very simple to get them tested to prove they are genuine. Why gamble on a random eBay auction as a seller and lose money ?

Thank you, yes sure, It went from Cameo to Ultra Cameo on a 65. I had hoped it might tip onto a 66 but that hairline behind the kings head kept it back I think. I think it should always have been a UC. My main reason for conservation in this case was to improve the eye appeal and I was very happy

That is an excellent result !
Do you mind confirming what grade it got.

Just thought i’d share before and after photos of a coin ive recently had conserved. Most impressive and obvious improvements ive ever had.
Before:


 
After


 

Good advice above. When selling on eBay I always take plenty of high quality photos for proof of the coin and as Pete mentions also use these on the listing. Also we take a video of the coin and packing process as further evidence. Then use a tracked postal service. That is about the best you can do. When people don’t do this there is risk they are opening themselves up to. Also a poorly Worded and formatted eBay list with poor photos suggests you are not being thorough.

As a seasoned stacker I agree with your comment that silver is in a bubble and the price is manipulated but in my world the price of silver is marked down and not high so once the bubble bursts silver should rise in price not fall. Gold on the other hand has had a good run of late and people panicked into gold believing the end of the world was imminent - think about the doomsday folks saying leaving the EU would sink the ship - so maybe gold is due a correction downwards.
Problem is nobody knows and regardless of "expert" advice the jury is out.
 

Never had a problem selling on eBay but that's not to say I don't get concerned.
I used to worry about the following scenario -
You have a person who has say a 3 or 4 coin proof set but 1 of the coins is marked.
This person buys your perfect coin to replace the marked one and claims the coin received is marked and sends it back.
In other words there was a swap and you receive back an inferior coin.
EBay 99.9999% of the time will favour the buyer so ALWAYS take good photographs of the coin you sell if that would be of concern.

As for bullion sovereigns etc just a picture that would identify it by its main marks and ideally a weight.
Uploading clear photographs on your listing is highly recommended as this is like a fingerprint of the coin.
If a scammer returned a substitute it would be easily identified as such.
Your seller protection only works if there is PROOF of delivery so take that in to account in selecting method of shipping.
My recommendation is to sell on this forum to a buyer with feedback for peace of mind and as there are no fees to deduct you may end up with a fair net price.
The only time I was let down badly by eBay was I purchased what was listed as a 1 kilo silver Kookaburra.
The listing had used library pictures.
What I received was a tiny replica weighing I guess about 5 grams that would be suitable as a necklace pendant.
The listing photographs showed the reeded edging of the Kook but the small replica was smooth as it wasn't thick enough to be reeded.
Luckily the seller acted "dim" and I was refunded but believe me there were anxious moments.
 

Should ask them what price they buy for, £500 a bullion sovereign would come in handy 😁

Lenny, buy from here.
Decide what you want, look at seller feedback and buy with confidence.
Lots of lovely sovereigns for sale on the forum.

9 negatives for Telepon22 now.  He really went all out. I'll open my case tomorrow.  That's one coin i'll never see. Along with 5 from auction that are stuck with the courier somewhere unable to deliver. . Not been a good week for me. I'm going to stick with the tried and trusted from now on. 

It is likely this will lead to a continual fall off in the use of EBay as it puts an even greater risk on the user having to have a bank account exposed as well.
Having had a quick look on the EBay community forums long standing sellers are mentioning their sales volumes are dropping quickly since the change.

I see you have already received a few replies from like-minded people, and as usual the advice contains a number of varying opinions.
There are probably similar posts and questions most days.
I sometimes give some input, but I prefer to give answers which are as complete and comprehensive as possible. This means they are long and time-consuming.
In the pre-historic early days of the internet (1998), I started to add advice and opinion pages to our "new" website. Now it belongs in a museum, and not all of the old content has been ported over to our newest site.
I thought about giving you a link to our "Newbie" advice page, but realised it needed updating, so I just wrote the first draft of it, which will get added to our site soon.
Here it is: https://www.chards.co.uk/blog/precious-metals-information-and-advice-for-newbies/1008 (link added 18th June 2021)
Meanwhile I am happy to give you a preview, complete with typos:
 
Newbie Information and Advice
For people thinking about starting to collect, invest, or stack coins or precious metal bullion.
 
First, ask yourself some questions:
What is your prime goal?
Interest in the historical or numismatic aspects of coins.
Investing to make a maximum return.
Investing to protect wealth against inflation, etc.
 
Most interested in:
Coins as numismatic items.
Precious metal content of coins and bars.
 
Metal Preference:
Most interested in:
Gold
Silver
Platinum
Palladium
Open minded
 
Budget
How much do you intend to invest?
Lump sum or regular purchase?
 
Timing
Want to start now, or ASAP
Wait until prices come down.
Wait until prices go up.
 
Home Base
Where do you live, which country, state, etc.
Legal considerations. Is what you want legal to buy or import in your country.
Tax considerations.
In the UK and EU, “Investment Gold” is exempt from VAT.
Other precious metal coins and bars are subject to VAT in the UK and EU.
In the USA, there may be sales tax in some states.
 
Secure Storage
It is worth thinking about how and where you intend to store your stash. For small amounts, this might not be much of a problem, but for higher values, you might need to think about a safe, alarms system, and insurance. Some banks may still offer safe deposit boxes, and safe deposit companies also exist. Check whether your insurance can include these. Alternatively, some companies now offer secure storage usually including insurance. If the storage is in a favourable tax regime, this may also legally avoid VAT on silver, platinum and palladium. Charges vary.
 
Bear / Bull Market Cycles.
Very few people can accurately forecast future precious metal prices, including many people who think they know. If you don’t know, then you are not alone, and at least your are not deluding yourself that you do know.
 
Relative Merits of Gold, Silver, Platinum, and Palladium
As a UK based dealer, we obviously concentrate on the UK market, but we do have a number of non-UK customers and suppliers, so while we are aware of some international markets, most of our thoughts relate to the UK.
Gold is the only one of the four precious metals which is exempt from VAT in the UK and EU, so it is the most obvious metal to choose for investment. Its unique VAT status is probably because it has historically been a monetary metal, renowned for retaining its value, and a range of other factors.
Silver is the other historic monetary metal, but because it is subject to VAT, we do not recommend it as a prime investment metal. It does have its enthusiastic supporters though, and it is relatively affordable.
Platinum and palladium are the other two precious metals, although both metals are newbies compared with gold and silver. Both are also subject to VAT.
Gold:Silver and other ratios.
The ratio of gold to silver prices has had a profound influence on monetary systems for thousands of years, until the last century, when “fiat” currencies have prevailed.
It is worth getting familiar with the current, and also historic gold:silver ratios. This will help you to decide between gold, silver, a different metal, or a combination.
 
Production Costs
Gold has a well-established international market, as does silver to a lesser extent, platinum and palladium markets are smaller and less liquid.
Mining is the most obvious production cost of any metal, but refining and other processing costs also come into play. Gold is cheap and easy to process in relation to its value. Silver is worth much less than gold, but the cost to manufacture a one ounce coin, for example, are not much less than for a similar gold coin, which explain why the percentage premium for silver coins or bars is generally higher than for gold. Platinum and palladium are more difficult to process, so their percentage premiums are also usually higher than for gold. Transport costs are also a higher proportion for silver than for gold. Silver requires more space to store compared with its value, so storage costs are also higher.
 
Coins or Bars?
I’m primarily a coin dealer, so I prefer coins, but there are other good reasons to choose coins rather than bars. Coins have tax or legal advantages in many countries compared with bars. Coins are issued by countries, bars by companies. I hesitate to suggest you trust governments rather than companies, but think about it. Coins are mass produced, and are usually available in a selection of different weights at competitive prices. One ounce coins are a universal choice in modern bullion coins, and hit a “sweet spot” for premiums, but historic coins such as British gold sovereigns (approximately quarter ounce) are also available competitively. Many other countries have their own traditional historic coins which are worth considering.
Bars are also made in many sizes, and you should expect to pay slightly lower premiums for bars rather than coins. The biggest “small” gold bar is one kilo, and should usually be the cheapest bar to buy (in percentage premium terms), however the differential is quite small, and for most investors, smaller sizes such as one ounce, as a better long-term buy. They are more liquid, as more people can afford them, easier to post (and insure), an important consideration when you want to sell.
 
Premiums
Whenever I talk about premiums, unless otherwise stated, I mean percentage premiums. This is the simplest way to compare value. If you don’t understand percentages or simple maths, then I recommend getting a few quick lessons, and a little effort. Education is always a good investment.
 
My general advice:
Buy at the lowest premium within reason. If you have read most of the above, you will understand what I mean, and why.
Changes
Most of the advice I give is generalised. There is a good reason for this. Things change. When I wrote this paragraph heading, I started singing the David Bowie song. Markets are constantly in a state of flux. For this reason, what is good specific advice on Monday morning might not be the same by Friday night. Changes occur over long timeframes of centuries and decades but also happen on shorter timescales of years, months, weeks, days, hours, and even minutes. Gold went up about $10 in a few seconds after the first plane hit on 9/11.
These changes include political, financial, fiscal, personal, local, international.
 
News and Hype
I spend a lot of time reading news. I call it working. In recent years, I have become more aware that most of what I read is written by vested interests, lobby groups, “influencers”, and the like. It is not easy, but try to discern whether facts are accurate, and to work out whether the “news” is coming from an “interested party”. It is often easy to detect hype and bullshit. Be aware that we are all prone to believe what we want to hear rather than what we do not want to hear.
 
Big Spenders and Small Savers
If you have big money to invest, you should have more choice of “best buy” deals.
If you are a small saver, it will be harder for you to get the “sweet spot” for value, so you might have to work a little harder.
 
Big Dealers or Peer-to-Peer
If you want to buy 100 ounces of gold, then almost everyone would agree go to a big, reputable dealer. Chard in Blackpool, England are not the biggest, but are one of the best (I am biased). You can have confidence that what you are buying is genuine.
If you only have a few hundred dollars (more or less) to invest, then you might actually get the best deals shopping around, perhaps on a well-known forum. It is not quite as easy to be certain that what you buy is genuine, but as I said, you may need to work a little harder.
You may be able to find a dealer or scheme which will let you buy small amounts of gold, silver etc., regularly, then switch it into physical when you have enough metal in your account.
 
Who, What, and Where to Avoid
Although it is possible to buy on ebay, it is fraught with danger, riddled with fraudsters, ripe with hype, and probably better avoided, unless you like a gamble. Similar with other auction sites, and private advertisers.
Local auctions can work, and are probably better than ebay, after all it wouldn’t be difficult.
Local coins dealers might work out for you. Jewellers, pawnbrokers and scrap dealers are probably better avoided. Often they don’t know and don’t care if coins are genuine, and many of their coins are sourced from scrap jewellery, and are sub-standard.
Coin Marketing Companies (CMCs)
You will see national newspaper and television adverts for these. Most of them market brand new coin issues at (high) premium prices. Many of these are very gimmicky, the world’s first, biggest, smallest, weirdest, latest, rarest. If you want to buy this stuff, then reading what I say will probably not stop you, but make sure you really want to buy it, and don’t be surprised if nobody is interested when you come to sell, even at half your cost price or less. Most of the CMC’s do not make a market, and will not buy (or buy back) coins, possibly because they don’t want you to realise they have ripped you off.
Some CMCs offer introductory deals (only $49.99 for the next 30 days, $99.99 “normal” price), others do loss leaders, usually restricted to 1 coin per household. This is to get your name on their “suckers” mailing list. They may also try the highly unethical, sometimes illegal, “bait and switch”, in which your personal account manager will try to convince you to buy pre-1933 gold coins telling you they are non-confiscatable. Ask yourself has he really got your best interests at heart, or is he trying to boost his commission, or keep his job?
The guy at the local pub. Also best avoided.
 
 
Links and Resources:
Gold price https://www.chards.co.uk/gold-price/gold-price-per-ounce
Gold:Silver ratio https://www.chards.co.uk/gold-silver-ratio
Other prices and ratios are linked from the above.
You can select different currencies, units of weight, and timescales.
We also have hundreds of other advice pages on our site, as well as on our older “heritage” sites.
 
Errors and Omissions
If there is anything I have missed out, please let me know.
If there are any other questions you would like answering, please submit them on the back of a £50 note, $100 bill, €500 banknote or similar.
 
 
 

Too right!  It’s amazing how easy it is to spend 7-8k per year on coffee and pre packed sandwiches and the same again on junk.I banged that in the head in 2008 and fired it all at the mortgage. 

I'm glad people are stacking their coins with care!
I too would always prefer people to take resonable care of their coins.
Sure, an RM tube is probably the most efficient gold/sq.in but they rub!
400 ounce good delivery bars, or even kilo bars are more space efficient than coins in RM tubes, but not really as enjoyable unless you have enough of them.
When I see @LawrenceChard shuffling sovereigns in his hand, I cringe!! 
I'm sorry if me shuffling sovereigns makes you cringe. I tend to only do it with circulated coins, and even then I try to minimise the relative movement between them. There is a trade-off between processing efficiency and handling damage.
Sure, they're only bullion and they're not 999 but it seems so wrong....I mean, they're £300 plus.
Yes, I keep forgetting they've gone up from £4
You wouldn't chuck your Snap-On tools in a toolbox, no, you'd put them back on the socket rail they came from!
What's a socket rail? 🙂
On a serious note: I cringe at some of the treatment people give coins:
We quite often get proof sovereigns and proof sets, where the owners have had them all out of the capsules, got fingerprints and scratches on the coins, discarded the RM certificates, and chain-smoked so the boxes reek of smoke, and we have to "quarantine" them until the smell goes.
I remember collecting a large quantity (1000+) of sovereigns from an exclusive London address. The owners had bought them from us some years before, and paid extra for some new minty ones. When we arrived to collect them, we discovered they had let their kids use them as toys, so there were no longer any minty ones.
Another time, a chap bought a lot of modern proof gold from us over a few years, then some years later decided to sell them. He had taken the capsules out of the boxes so they could fit in his safe, but then let his grand-daughter sell many of them on ebay. the boxes he still had stank of tobacco smoke.
On a slight tangent, another thing which we find frustrating is when people bring us quite large "collections" of modern issues they have bought from one or more of the coin marketing companies. Often these are old people, usually not internet-savvy, and they have "invested" for their children, grand-children, etc, but never done any research until too late. It is quite common to hear that people have spent 6 figure amounts of money. One recent example must have cost about £600,000! We ended up paying him about 60% of that, but only because gold prices had gone up since he bought them. If he had bought bullion sovereigns, Britannias, or similar from us, he could have been getting over £1 million for them.
As it happens, there were many interesting coins, mainly because they were "new to us", but many of them are not highly sought after, and it requires considerable marketing effort to find good new homes for them. I suspect many dealers would have just bought them for scrap.