How to collect every sovereign ?

[Ukbullionfan]

On the sovereign 2000 coin what does this mean ?

 

Mintage Figure	129,069
Issue Limit	250,000

 

does it mean the mintage figure is what it is and they couldn’t go over the issue limit ?

[Happypanda88]

1 hour ago, Ukbullionfan said:

On the sovereign 2000 coin what does this mean ?

 

Mintage Figure	129,069
Issue Limit	250,000

 

does it mean the mintage figure is what it is and they couldn’t go over the issue limit ?

That is how I interpret it.

Issue limit is maximum authorised number

Mintage Figure is the actual number of coins minted. 

I guess sovereigns from 2000 to 2009 weren't in demand as the mintages were fairly low.

[SidS]

2 hours ago, Happypanda88 said:

That is how I interpret it.

Issue limit is maximum authorised number

Mintage Figure is the actual number of coins minted. 

I guess sovereigns from 2000 to 2009 weren't in demand as the mintages were fairly low.

Gold was cheap and not seen as an investment.

I was buying gold in this era and there was little pumping of gold that I noted. The floor had fallen out of the market by 2000 - don't forget it had been going down from its 1980s highs, it was a poor investment, many people had bought in during the highs of the late 1970s and early 80s and had lost money.

Not to forget that governments were selling their gold and it seemed that gold really wasn't going to go anywhere, who invested in gold? Why would you want to? So lack of demand in the late 1980s to late 1990s meant why issue bullion sovereigns?

I did buy a 2000 bullion half sovereign in about 2001 as I don't like proofs.

[Happypanda88]

@SidS Around year 2000, I seem to recall that the interest rate for saving accounts were quite good. Hence, some financial advisors kept drumming on about gold yield no interest.  I was one of those who thought that same way at the time and put my savings into ISAs and Government Bonds.  Looking back now, I wished I was more clued up about gold. 

Still, better late than never. 😊

[Stuntman]

I've told this story before, but the first five sovereigns I owned were due to winning them as first prizes in two particular 10km road races, between 2003 and 2006.  The sponsor was a firm of goldsmiths and these (bullion) sovereigns would have cost them about £50 per coin in those days.  By 2006 the price of gold was beginning to climb again, and to the best of  my knowledge the prize of a sovereign for winning those races ended in 2007.

Sadly I had to stop running altogether in 2006 due to long term injuries, but I still own all five of those sovereigns.  I won both of these 10km races in 2005, which was the best of those years to win the sovereigns!

[SidS]

1 hour ago, Stuntman said:

I've told this story before, but the first five sovereigns I owned were due to winning them as first prizes in two particular 10km road races, between 2003 and 2006.  The sponsor was a firm of goldsmiths and these (bullion) sovereigns would have cost them about £50 per coin in those days.  By 2006 the price of gold was beginning to climb again, and to the best of  my knowledge the prize of a sovereign for winning those races ended in 2007.

Ha, that's interesting! I can relate something similar.

It was about 2004 or so. I was a regular on another forum at the time and we used to have competitions where coins would be won.

I ran one of them at the time, the prize was the aforementioned 2000 half sovereign.

Maybe it was the horrid coppery colour I never took to, or the fact that the jewellers I had bought it from had damaged it 'slightly' by sticking a pricetag on the coin which had left a glue residue mark across the Queen's face.

Whatever, it made a good prize, and I was happy to give it away. It had cost me all of £25-£30 to buy and I was glad to be rid of it. It lives somewhere in the States now.

There's no way I'd give away a half sovereign these days though!

[Britannia47]

Recently put this collection of 'nearly' all the Sovereign obverse/portraits since 1817 on 'Today I want to show.....' and thought it worth repeating on this topic.  Obviously this can be expanded to include all the mints/specials/date-runs etc Anything more ambitious is likely to be 'Mission Impossible!' Early sovereigns are going to be more expensive now, but this group is still achievable in the short to medium term (finance permitting) It may take a few years - but hey, whats the rush?! The 1997 was my very first sovereign.🤗

[kimchi]

1 hour ago, Britannia47 said:

Recently put this collection of 'nearly' all the Sovereign obverse/portraits since 1817 on 'Today I want to show.....' and thought it worth repeating on this topic.  Obviously this can be expanded to include all the mints/specials/date-runs etc Anything more ambitious is likely to be 'Mission Impossible!' Early sovereigns are going to be more expensive now, but this group is still achievable in the short to medium term (finance permitting) It may take a few years - but hey, whats the rush?! The 1997 was my very first sovereign.🤗

Glorious!!! Thank you for posting

[Ukbullionfan]

What year was the double sovereign released and what’s the collections situation like.

[Foster88]

10 hours ago, Britannia47 said:

Recently put this collection of 'nearly' all the Sovereign obverse/portraits since 1817 on 'Today I want to show.....' and thought it worth repeating on this topic.  Obviously this can be expanded to include all the mints/specials/date-runs etc Anything more ambitious is likely to be 'Mission Impossible!' Early sovereigns are going to be more expensive now, but this group is still achievable in the short to medium term (finance permitting) It may take a few years - but hey, whats the rush?! The 1997 was my very first sovereign.🤗

Thanks for sharing this.

Zooming in in your photo, the difference between the two George V sovereigns is obvious and the ‘small head’ redesigned version from 1929 - 1932 is a favourite of mine.

Also I always thought the smaller, earlier young head depiction of Queen Victoria was better than the larger head seen on the St.George reverse sovereigns.

[Ukbullionfan]

So guys what’s a fair prices for the proof sovereigns from 2015-2022 ? What shouldn’t I be paying over 

[Foster88]

23 minutes ago, Ukbullionfan said:

So guys what’s a fair prices for the proof sovereigns from 2015-2022 ? What shouldn’t I be paying over 

That would depend on which year from 2015 - 2022. There’s no one price fits all.

It also depends if the proof sovereign has been graded, there can be huge price differences between an MS69 and an MS70. Sometimes a few £100 difference.

Whilst the forum is a great place to ask for advice and discussion, as you’ve done, which is of course the role of the forum. Doing your own research can be just as educational, if not vital. Look at past auction prices, The Coin Cabinet, London Coins, Spink, Coins of the Realm as a few examples. Get the real prices they sell for. But when doing this note the change in gold price too when going back to certain years.

I’m sure by now you’ve realised from others replies that collecting every sovereign is almost an impossible task. But you should, most importantly, buy what you like and like what you buy.

[SidS]

3 hours ago, Ukbullionfan said:

What year was the double sovereign released and what’s the collections situation like.

You mean the first double sovereign?

If so, ignoring the George III patterns, then the first circulation £2 coin was issued in 1823.

They were sporadically issued thereafter:

Circulation strikes: 1823, 1887, 1893 and 1902

There were proof versions of most of those, plus proof only issues in 1826, c.1831, 1911, 1937.

Then came the decimal issues from the 1970s onwards, although that's beyond my expertise.

[GoldDiggerDave]

5 hours ago, Ukbullionfan said:

So guys what’s a fair prices for the proof sovereigns from 2015-2022 ? What shouldn’t I be paying over 

2016 proof PF70 1k to 1.2k 

2017 proof PF70 1k to 1.2k 

2022 proof pf70 £800 and very quickly rising 

There' s also a load of SOTD's between these dates. 

Like @Foster88 said it's good asking question like this but you have to do some of your own homework, as for price the free market will always dictate the price.

@Ukbullionfan have you bought yourself a Marsh and a copy of Spink?  

 

[refero]

On 21/08/2022 at 16:05, Britannia47 said:

Recently put this collection of 'nearly' all the Sovereign obverse/portraits since 1817 on 'Today I want to show.....' and thought it worth repeating on this topic.  Obviously this can be expanded to include all the mints/specials/date-runs etc Anything more ambitious is likely to be 'Mission Impossible!' Early sovereigns are going to be more expensive now, but this group is still achievable in the short to medium term (finance permitting) It may take a few years - but hey, whats the rush?! The 1997 was my very first sovereign.

am i mistaken or the young victoria head (1839-1848) is missing? 😅

[Britannia47]

1 hour ago, refero said:

am i mistaken or the young victoria head (1839-1848) is missing? 😅

Possibly!  I don't have access to my Marsh at present, but this could be the 'small head' range. If so I will add my 1843 in due course. My info from 'Bonhams' is that the 1848 (Marsh 31A) is the only small head. Either way I will quote myself as "nearly all the sovereign obverses".......! Anyway thanks for pointing it out. 😊  

 

[refero]

impressive stack by the way!)))

[kimchi]

10 hours ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

2016 proof PF70 1k to 1.2k 

2017 proof PF70 1k to 1.2k 

2022 proof pf70 £800 and very quickly rising 

...

 

Performing very well indeed!

PF69s are completely acceptable and if you can look at the coin in hand and see nothing obvious under a loupe there's a possibility of regrading as a 70

Too expensive to get into (for me) now, if I wasn't already 'in'.

There's an opportunity here imo which canny investors might spot - the years inbetween. Isn't the 2018 the only single Proof Sov with a privy mark? I would phone them to ask about condition but @ChardsCoinandBullionDealer have one (haven't checked elsewhere, so there may be cheaper) have one for what seems to me a reasonable £576.20.

For bullion the 2017 (also with a privy) is attracting a small premium now (£10 odd I've seen) from some dealers so stock up on those if you can get a deal!

 

[GoldDiggerDave]

7 minutes ago, kimchi said:

Performing very well indeed!

PF69s are completely acceptable and if you can look at the coin in hand and see nothing obvious under a loupe there's a possibility of regrading as a 70

Too expensive to get into (for me) now, if I wasn't already 'in'.

There's an opportunity here imo which canny investors might spot - the years inbetween. Isn't the 2018 the only single Proof Sov with a privy mark? I would phone them to ask about condition but @ChardsCoinandBullionDealer have one (haven't checked elsewhere, so there may be cheaper) have one for what seems to me a reasonable £576.20.

For bullion the 2017 (also with a privy) is attracting a small premium now (£10 odd I've seen) from some dealers so stock up on those if you can get a deal!

 

You are totally right there is next to no perceivable difference between some 69's and a 70's.   

[Ukbullionfan]

So what about dealers that are listing the proof coins that haven’t been graded and just there as normal proof coins ? Do we Stay away from those types ?

[Petra]

3 minutes ago, Ukbullionfan said:

So what about dealers that are listing the proof coins that haven’t been graded and just there as normal proof coins ? Do we Stay away from those types ?

 

3 minutes ago, Ukbullionfan said:

So what about dealers that are listing the proof coins that haven’t been graded and just there as normal proof coins ? Do we Stay away from those types ?

Why? Proof coin is a proof coin. Get a good look at it you can always send it off to be graded and possibly make some money. Personally I prefer unslabbed.

[GoldDiggerDave]

52 minutes ago, Ukbullionfan said:

So what about dealers that are listing the proof coins that haven’t been graded and just there as normal proof coins ? Do we Stay away from those types ?

 No, if you are new to sovereigns I would advise to stick with bullion sovereigns, go for some historic dates, or a cheap branch mint run.   Cheap Victoria portrait run , or a QEII portrait set.  

you can’t assimilate all sovereign data like the matrix, it’s something you have to live though, you will make mistakes, but we all end up paying for our numismatic education at some point. I have 14 books just on sovereigns alone so would advise you buy yourself some reading material. 

set yourself a goal 12-24 sovereigns per year more depending on your circumstance, make a hobby out of it. 

[GoldStatue]

3 hours ago, kimchi said:

There's an opportunity here imo which canny investors might spot - the years inbetween. Isn't the 2018 the only single Proof Sov with a privy mark?

I wouldn't count on that staying the only proof sovereign with a privy mark for too long, you know the Royal Mint will flog those privy marks to death.

[kimchi]

18 hours ago, GoldStatue said:

I wouldn't count on that staying the only proof sovereign with a privy mark for too long, you know the Royal Mint will flog those privy marks to death.

It might be the only QEII! Yes they've gone Sov privy crazy, but it's mainly been for the Strike on the Days etc. Plus it was the sapphire coronation, we won't see one of those again. Arguably if there's a platinum coronation privy next year then that makes it more important, not less

Looking at the prices Dave gives for the 16, 17 and 22 I still think the years inbetween are where there's an opportunity!

Edited August 23, 2022 by kimchi

[GoldStatue]

2 hours ago, kimchi said:

It might be the only QEII! Yes they've gone Sov privy crazy, but it's mainly been for the Strike on the Days etc. Plus it was the sapphire coronation, we won't see one of those again. Arguably if there's a platinum coronation privy next year then that makes it more important, not less

Looking at the prices Dave gives for the 16, 17 and 22 I still think the ears inbetween are where there's an opportunity!

I find the privy marks don't show up as well on sovereigns as other coins, purely because the coins are tiny in the first place and I have to really squint my eyes to see them.

Even though I'm not a big fan of the Royal Mint churning out a marginally different proof sovereign design each year I can easily see the intrinsic gold value going up so much in the next 10 years that it would comfortably pay off any premiums the Royal Mint is currently placing on them.