How to collect every sovereign ?

[Ukbullionfan]

Hey guys so how do you collect and know what every sovereign is ? I see they release a book every year . Within that book what’s new about it compared to previous issue ? Is there a current list of every sovereign ? Is it purely based on dates only ? So theoretically a new collector could start from 2022 and work their way backwards ? 

[TheShinyStuff]

I can picture the twitching eyebrows and hear the furious tuts of the many sovereign enthusiasts here!

You will no doubt get a very detailed reply explaining why you couldn't do this. As well as needing bottomless pockets to even get close, some sovereigns are unobtainable (I'd imagine...)

I look forward to reading the replies.

[modofantasma]

You can always make a start. You can really do what you like. Maybe date run backward or start a date run of Edwards or Gillicks etc 

Whilst I didn't set out to collect a date run of sovs I did a stocktake of what sovs I have not too long ago and there aren't that many dates left from 1850. I still buy the best deals usually even if it means duplicates though I'm not that committed to pay more than best value prices but it's a fun goal to have on the back burner. 

If you get into all the different mint mark combinations and years you'd expand the list quite considerably. There are plenty of more experienced collectors than me here that can add to this.  

The books you mention will perhaps update any changes or corrections and perhaps prices. 

 

[Leo1]

If you want to collect Sovereigns the Marsh and the Spink book are a good way to start. There every sovereign is mentioned. Collecting sovereigns is not only based on dates but also on mintmarks. In books there are also varieties  mentioned. You can start collecting bullion sovereigns and buy them at best value or you can go for the more expensive proof (and struck on the day coins). 2022 is a great year to start a collection in my opinion because this year sovereigns feature a special design. I personally try to buy older uncirculated sovereigns or new ones with special reverse like (2002,2005,2012,2017,2022) and modern proof sovereigns and let a few of them grade. It is completely impossible to collect every single sovereign because there are so many different dates, mint marks and varieties and some pattern coins that are probably unice. As others mentioned before small date runs like Gillicks are relatively easy to do and can be fun.

[Ukbullionfan]

Thanks for the replies guy. My OCD mind is exploding right now though. I feel Unwell lol.

[harrygill111]

The Spink and Marsh book's are very good. Collecting each Monarch/Design first is a good place to start. This is what I did, focusing on 'Modern' sovereigns (from 1817 onward) in the first years of issue and eventually trading up to get the best grades for my budget as I got deeper into the into the subject. Collecting every soveriegn is quite difficult and very expensive, so I've had to become comfortable having an incomplete set (not going to help your OCD). 

There are an awful lot of variations too, which i've steered clear of personally as my pockets simply aren't deep enough. Also some Sovereigns are much more expencive than others, there are very expensive ones like the 1937 George VI (Proof only and mintage of 5.5k) which can go for several thousand even in bad condition, and some Sovereigns are just impossible to get, like the 1936 Edward VIII sovereign, which rarely comes for sale and could fetch several hundred thousand pounds (I believe one of these sold for a record setting £1m recently). 

Auctions are a good place to get earlier and slightly more elusive Sovereigns, however through wisdom on the forum i've learnt even reputable auction houses dont check for authenticity. There have been some blantant fakes spotted from just looking at the pictures in detail, so some caution needed. Overall, I think collecting Sovereigns is really enjoyable and you get to own a piece of British History, which I feel can only increase in value. Sovereigns can also be an enjoyable and more interesting way to grow your 'stack' as many earlier monarachs can be picked up at very low premiums over spot, particularly on the forum. 

Good Luck, there are lots of people that can help here as your venture deeper. 

 

[SidS]

It might be cheaper to start at 2022 and work forwards 😀

Some sovereigns are extremely rare. I bet even @LawrenceChard hasn't had many 1819 sovereigns over the years.

A type set would be more achievable. If you want to go down the date set then 1842-1914 London mint only would be do-able. Dates before 1842 are more varied in availability, some like 1817 are easy enough, some like 1838/9 are harder, some like 1841 and 1819 are practically unobtainable. The same issue occurs when one goes beyond 1914 into the George V era. The London mint 1917 is a no go. The branch mints throw up some very rare coins in the 1920s.

The 1950s onwards are much easier if you want to go into the Elizabeth II bullion era.

[dicker]

Hi @Ukbullionfan

This would be a Herculean task and I suspect would need to be treated as a full time job.

So to give you an idea of the task my master (detailed) spreadsheet of all Sovereigns shows the following distribution.

The below is what is known according to Marsh plus my own updates of items missing or incorrect in Marsh.  New errors / over dates / over letters are discovered weekly and Marsh certainly does not contain all errors.

Equally, there will be varieties that have yet to be identified (but I think this will be a small number).

Some of the Low "R's" below can be sourced for ok prices, but they will be in poor condition. High "R's" are seriously expensive in any condition - some are essentially unobtainable.

Best

Dicker

 

Population of Sovereigns across Monarchs and Mints - including Marsh 'Errors' (1817 - 2017)

Count of Master Index	Column Labels
Row Labels	Edward VII	Edward VIII	Elizabeth II	George III	George IV	George V	George VI	Victoria	William IV	Grand Total
Bombay						2				2
India			1							1
London	12	1	89	15	25	10	2	169	19	342
Melbourne	9					22		59		90
Ottowa	4					8				12
Perth	9					22		3		34
Pretoria						13				13
Sydney	9					17		79		105
Grand Total	43	1	90	15	25	94	2	310	19	599

 

Scarcity Rating (I know I have a couple of Gaps)

	Values
Row Labels	Count of Master Index
-	4
C	145
N	129
R	42
R2	38
R3	37
R4	30
R5	29
R6	43
R7	21
S	79
Grand Total	597

 

C = Common

N = Normal

R = Rare

S = Scarce

[dicker]

Just to add to the above, I suspect that there will be:

(1) Sovereign varieties held by collectors and not disclosed deliberately

(2) Very extensive Sovereign collections that already exist but are not publicly disclosed

 

 

[GoldStatue]

Or maybe the OP is extremely rich and wants to literally collect every sovereign ever made 😀

Either collecting all the special reverses or all the monarchs portraits seems to be the gateway drug into collecting sovereigns.

I'd just be careful about what theme you decide to collect as many of them contain sovereigns that are nigh on impossible to acquire.

[LawrenceChard]

2 hours ago, SidS said:

It might be cheaper to start at 2022 and work forwards 😀

Some sovereigns are extremely rare. I bet even @LawrenceChard hasn't had many 1819 sovereigns over the years.

A type set would be more achievable. If you want to go down the date set then 1842-1914 London mint only would be do-able. Dates before 1842 are more varied in availability, some like 1817 are easy enough, some like 1838/9 are harder, some like 1841 and 1819 are practically unobtainable. The same issue occurs when one goes beyond 1914 into the George V era. The London mint 1917 is a no go. The branch mints throw up some very rare coins in the 1920s.

The 1950s onwards are much easier if you want to go into the Elizabeth II bullion era.

There are often 1917 London Mint sovereigns for sale on ebay and elsewhere, including local auction houses. Some of them may even be genuine, but I would not gamble on it!

😎

[LawrenceChard]

15 hours ago, Ukbullionfan said:

Hey guys so how do you collect and know what every sovereign is ? I see they release a book every year . Within that book what’s new about it compared to previous issue ? Is there a current list of every sovereign ? Is it purely based on dates only ? So theoretically a new collector could start from 2022 and work their way backwards ? 

Start with whatever you can buy at low premiums.

When you get duplicates, either resell them, or exchange them with other collectors, stackers,  TSF members.

Don't chase after rare ones to start with.

Be flexible. Don't tie yourself down to a particular type or project, and reject others which might be a better buy.

For example, many years ago, circa 1964, we found it difficult to get collectors to buy George III, George IV, and William IV, because they wanted to complete Victoria to date first. At the time pre-Victorias were cheap!

Other collectors were reluctant to buy shield sovereoigns, because they preferred St. George, or because they wanted to complete their St. George set first.

It used to be so frustrating to try to give people good, sound advice in their own interest, and get excuses why they were not ready to accept the advice.

😎

[GoldDiggerDave]

Good question mate, I’d love to see a complete collection.  The answer the person would need hundreds of millions and even that would not guarantee every one minted from 1489 to 2022. 
 

Ive seen undated trial £5 sovereigns that I don’t think 2-3 million would buy them. 

[dicker]

23 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

For example, many years ago, circa 1964, we found it difficult to get collectors to buy George III, George IV, and William IV, because they wanted to complete Victoria to date first. At the time pre-Victorias were cheap!

Other collectors were reluctant to buy shield sovereoigns, because they preferred St. George, or because they wanted to complete their St. George set first.

 

😎

Remarkable.

Nowt as queer as folk

[Pete]

17 hours ago, Ukbullionfan said:

Hey guys so how do you collect and know what every sovereign is ? I see they release a book every year . Within that book what’s new about it compared to previous issue ? Is there a current list of every sovereign ? Is it purely based on dates only ? So theoretically a new collector could start from 2022 and work their way backwards ? 

Buy the book by Marsh ISBN 978-1-908828-36-1 and you will quickly discover that you will never collect every sovereign.
However you might start a hobby of collecting as many different dates but expect several gaps.
Looking earlier than young Victoria will also require deep pockets.
Very nice challenge and other than rare coins and key dates, use spot price of gold ( approx 7.3g in a full sovereign ) plus 5% to indicate value.

[Ukbullionfan]

Literally going to respond to everyone later when got more time. So many great replies thanks guys. I still got so many more questions but my brain is asleep today lol

[refero]

good evening, glad to give my contribution to the topic; 

as already said, a complete (modern) sovereign year run is (almost) unobtainable,  be that a matter of time, or a matter of money (or, most likely, the 2 of them combined...); just ignoring all varities the situation is (pretty much) as follows; 

20 pre victoria sovereign. For most of them is "just" a matter of money, they are expensive but pops quite regularly. Key dates are 1819 (200k? but here the issue is how often it appears on the market, if there are only a dozen known it means the majority of private collections dont have it, regardless of how rich the owners are); 1823, super expensive in high grade, 1828 more than super expensive in any grade. Other dates (1831-1832) have rarer varities but i assume a run collection per year would go for the cheapest options

35 victoria shield sovereign. 1838-1839 are expensive but can be found with some perseverance. 1841 is the lil' 1819. Get ready to pay a loooot of money and good luck with the grading... then you have 1874, tough to be spotted in EF+ but otherwise "just" expensive.

10 St George. 1871-1872-1873 are overlapping with shield ones, but if i was to go for a run like that, i would get them on board... here the "bastard" is 1879. expensive and often in poor condition

6 jubilee head. easy to find

8 veiled head. getting harder and harder to find them in EF+ condition, but still pretty easy compared to other "tasks"

9 Edward VII. easy to find

8 George V. easy to find, apart from the 1917. A lot of fakes and counterfeits around. 

1 George VI. Just expensive. Official records say 5501 as for mintage. I wonder how is it possible since you can find it in every single auction around

57 Elisabeth II. (counting all years of mintage, it s a combination of bullion and proofs). Of course for some years you cant "choose". For 1979-1980-1981-1982 and 2000 onwards you can choose between bullion and proof

151 years to collect (but 154 coins). I would say 120 are "easily" obtainable with a low premium over spot. 20-25 are just "expensive". 1819-1823-1828-1841-1874-1879-1917 are a ******** pain in the **** and its really complicated for a "normal" collector to dedicate the amount of money the market is asking when and if they pop.

hope it helps, best.

ps, i havent mentioned proofs or other iper expensive varities (like Ansell, the 827 on truncation, etc etc

pps i assumed a date London mint run

Perseverance and commitment are the words i d use to describe such an effort. And money of course

Edited August 19, 2022 by refero

[LawrenceChard]

19 hours ago, Ukbullionfan said:

Hey guys so how do you collect and know what every sovereign is ? I see they release a book every year . Within that book what’s new about it compared to previous issue ? Is there a current list of every sovereign ? Is it purely based on dates only ? So theoretically a new collector could start from 2022 and work their way backwards ? 

I forgot to mention that this heritage site used to have almost every sovereign listed in an easy to find way:

https://goldsovereigns.co.uk/datesexist.html

😎

[kimchi]

Oh gosh, I am SO glad I didn't get into collecting anything but moderns seven or eight years ago (other things were far more achievable then, I'd say that now even with unlimited funds it's impossible)...

I would go for a run of more modern QEIIs (including Proofs) and/or Gillicks...I think I could just about handle the latter...the former are already (in the last five years or so) becoming 'too rich' for me

They might well be an investment, but having OCD myself they would drive me absolutely nuts, and my pockets are not that deep...if starting now I would go for Gillicks (but again if you have OCD it might be best not to start!)

Edited August 19, 2022 by kimchi

[Stuntman]

A complete date/mint set of modern sovereigns is practically impossible to collect even if you are obscenely rich.

A complete type set of modern sovereigns (that is, one of each main obverse design, main reverse design, and main mint mark) is relatively possible (assuming that you exclude an Edward VIII type example) but would still require a spend in the tens of thousands of pounds.

Alternatively (and in line with advice previously given above) -decide how complete of either type of set you want to go for, and then acquire the items as and when.

Personally I've always been a type set collector, although I've not attempted to do this for sovereigns.  If anything I'm a date collector of sovereigns and all of mine are post-1999.

[SidS]

My rule was always 'circulation strikes' only - this way you can weed out the awkward proof only issues like the 1937. Just a thought.

Edward VIII are technically patterns as royal assent for their issue was never granted.

[SidS]

What about sovereigns which are legal tender? This will eliminate all pre-Victoria issues AND any coins which have a unmilled smooth edge (1937) as these are not legal tender.

[refero]

1 hour ago, SidS said:

My rule was always 'circulation strikes' only

i have several friends/people that i know that collect sovs. Each one does that according to his own preferences; everyone consider his way the right one. We discuss-ed endless hours, trying to convince each other... thing is... we all realized long time ago we will never be able to complete a full date run..

someone collects per monarch, someone per mint, someone per ovberse, or per reverse, someone only circulated sovs, someone only bullion etc etc.. 

  

[SidS]

18 minutes ago, refero said:

i have several friends/people that i know that collect sovs. Each one does that according to his own preferences; everyone consider his way the right one. We discuss-ed endless hours, trying to convince each other... thing is... we all realized long time ago we will never be able to complete a full date run..

someone collects per monarch, someone per mint, someone per ovberse, or per reverse, someone only circulated sovs, someone only bullion etc etc.. 

  

Oh by no means am I knocking anyone else's preferences for collecting. I was just giving an example of how I cut the field down to make it more manageable/affordable.

To go slightly OT - there was one collector I heard of who collected 1934 wreath crowns - he was trying to get all 932 of them. I thought that was quite novel.

Edited August 19, 2022 by SidS

[Ukbullionfan]

9 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

I forgot to mention that this heritage site used to have almost every sovereign listed in an easy to find way:

https://goldsovereigns.co.uk/datesexist.html

😎

Thanks for this it’s a great help. Even by the years where it says none existed . It’s actually an interesting read. Also crazy to think before 2000 there was only proof sovereigns for down years.