2022 Sovereign design revealed?

[Slam]

28 minutes ago, Shep said:

I feel with these modern releases it’s hard not to go down the road of chasing a “perfect” coin, especially with all the hype from the community and various shills. The pressure to have a coin that you think will grade as a 70 is just overwhelming.

When i began to take notice of grading it near enough ruined the enjoyment of buying and owning raw proof coins because I became obsessed with only having perfect ones. 

@Slam 

I’ve had a similar issues in the past where I’ve spent an ungodly amount of time going back to a coin carefully unscrewing the capsule to look at it with a loupe, trying in vain to convince myself that the little defect I’ve noticed isn’t all that bad and I can live with it. It didn’t work for me.

Speaking from my own experience of this, unless you can put the quest for that perfect 70 out of your mind, owning this particular coin now that you’ve noticed these little things is probably going to do your head in. Perhaps try for a replacement if you can but when it arrives don't get your loupe out!

Yeah i feel this would be my thinking, I haven't graded anything but will never say never. I've only recently got a loupe and only at 10x. I thought as the sovereign would be too small to see everything with the naked eye so thats why I purchased the loupe to be able to enjoy the detailing close up. 

Did you come to sell the coin and was it a special release like this?

Thanks for sharing your experience.   

[Slam]

32 minutes ago, SilverJacks said:

Are the frosting issues in picture A tiny blank spots missing on the design, or is it some kind of dust/debris on the surface of the coin? If it's the latter then you'll probably see it in the mirrored fields as well? I'm guessing it's missing tiny dots of frosting and if it's clear to the naked eye, is too widespread for me to accept. That's just my opinion. It could just be that you're looking too hard under 10x magnification and have caught the light at a certain angle

If it's minimal, and not due to contact marks, then it tends not to matter to many people because graders will overlook small issues caused during the minting process. I believe that's the case for Picture B. I think a 70 is still possible.

Picture C looks like a tiny ding and might lower the grade. Depends on whether the graders deem it a post production flaw. 

If it bothers you that much then return them and ask for replacement but not refund. The coins are still worth more than RRP and so you should ask for them back if they won't replace them, which isn't a problem to RM. In years to come, I think you'd look back on a refund with disappointment.

Just my opinion for what it's worth. I don't claim to be an expert.

I think i only see it when it catches a certain angle of the light under the loupe, I cannot see the tiny spots with the naked eye and only at different angles. I will look again but I cannot see the issue with pic b and c with the naked eye but then again the sovereign is so small in size it is hard to see all the details on the coin anyways. No idea how people can see all of the detail on such a small coin, does that come with experience and knowing what to look for?  

Yeah I would rather have this set than no set at all tbh so I will see what RM says. 

Thanks for your feedback

[Slam]

31 minutes ago, kimchi said:

1) Don't loupe at more than 7x or you will drive yourself bonkers.

2) a graded 70 does not mean a perfect coin.

1 - learning about that now haha, however my loupe only uses 10x, i dont think i can control the maginication.

Thanks

 

[Mtaybar]

There's a lot of reassuring comments on this thread now. Before I started to pull my hair out with my first set that had a tiny dink that was only noticeable under the loupe and at certain angles. It drove me to send it back for replacement after reading some comments. It came in today but as I have my granddaughter today I haven't opened it yet. 🤞 I never made a mistake. I have 2 sets to look at so have double the anxiety building lol. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Mtaybar

[Slam]

33 minutes ago, blackadder said:

I've looked at coins and been happy,then months later looked again to see these frosting problems due most likely to the light being at just the right angle etc etc.

I sent the silver panther back four times lol Sometimes you can take it to far 😂

I've been doing that with the panthers, I was happy with the coins at the start but have since looked at the coins and it seems to me when I shine the light at certain angles I can see defects like its starting to develop milky spotting maybe, never been out of the capsules so don't know what to think of it.  

What is a frosting problem? Could this be that?

[Mtaybar]

1 minute ago, Slam said:

I've been doing that with the panthers, I was happy with the coins at the start but have since looked at the coins and it seems to me when I shine the light at certain angles I can see defects like its starting to develop milky spotting maybe, never been out of the capsules so don't know what to think of it.  

What is a frosting problem? Could this be that?

Frosting is like the finish on the body of the panther. Where you have your circle is in the mirrored finish field. If there were shiny specks on the panther itself it would be that the frosting is missing in that spot. 

[Slam]

4 minutes ago, Mtaybar said:

Frosting is like the finish on the body of the panther. Where you have your circle is in the mirrored finish field. If there were shiny specks on the panther itself it would be that the frosting is missing in that spot. 

Yeah I thought so (like the my 1st sovereign picture in my first post, where you can see lots of little dots.) but thought this also might be a frosting issue (hope really that its not pre spotting) after reading the comment from blackadder. 

[Slam]

13 minutes ago, Mtaybar said:

There's a lot of reassuring comments on this thread now. Before I started to pull my hair out with my first set that had a tiny dink that was only noticeable under the loupe and at certain angles. It drove me to send it back for replacement after reading some comments. It came in today but as I have my granddaughter today I haven't opened it yet. 🤞 I never made a mistake. I have 2 sets to look at so have double the anxiety building lol. 

Sounds like my issue that im having now but hopefully you get a better set. Let me know how it goes and whether it was worth replacing please.

Thanks 

[Shep]

45 minutes ago, Slam said:

Yeah i feel this would be my thinking, I haven't graded anything but will never say never. I've only recently got a loupe and only at 10x. I thought as the sovereign would be too small to see everything with the naked eye so thats why I purchased the loupe to be able to enjoy the detailing close up. 

Did you come to sell the coin and was it a special release like this?

Thanks for sharing your experience.   

Yes it was, this particular coin was a 2005 proof sovereign that I purchased from a dealer perhaps three or four years ago. In my case I just sent it back for a refund for as ridiculous as it sounds, I just could not enjoy owning the coin. I also did not want to deal with issues if I was to come to sell it on (even though the imperfection I had spotted was absolutely minuscule and you wouldn’t notice it with the naked eye, much like the ones on your coin). 

Between Royal Mint queues, (lack of) QC practices, secondary market instant flippers and grading companies, buying modern proofs is an absolute minefield. Even when you sell on raw coins some people expect that you are selling them a coin that will definitely grade PF70. As grading is a subjective process between the graders and the coin who the hell knows what a coin will grade 🤷‍♂️, sometimes I don’t think the graders know either. NGC and PCGS have modern coin collectors by the balls.

Edited January 8, 2022 by Shep

[Shep]

Haha rant over. Apologies.

[gji25]

£332.60 for a 2021 full soveriegn @ bullion by post delivered just to let anyone know .

dont go much on the 2022 as it looks a bit pinkish to me

[Slam]

21 minutes ago, Shep said:

Yes it was, this particular coin was a 2005 proof sovereign that I purchased from a dealer perhaps three or four years ago. In my case I just sent it back for a refund for as ridiculous as it sounds, I just could not enjoy owning the coin. I also did not want to deal with issues if I was to come to sell it on (even though the imperfection I had spotted was absolutely minuscule and you wouldn’t notice it with the naked eye, much like the ones on your coin). 

Between Royal Mint queues, (lack of) QC practices, secondary market instant flippers and grading companies, buying modern proofs is an absolute minefield. Even when you sell on raw coins some people expect that you are selling them a coin that will definitely grade PF70. As grading is a subjective process between the graders and the coin who the hell knows what a coin will grade 🤷‍♂️, sometimes I don’t think the graders know either. NGC and PCGS have modern coin collectors by the balls.

Thanks for that, have you stopped buying proofs coins for these reasons you noted from the RM and dealers and difficult to sell?

Im also reading that grading is a lottery but personally for me I have no intentions of grading this set. The box is absolutely gorgeous in my inexperience opinion so I would rather have it in the box. 

[Shep]

15 minutes ago, Slam said:

Thanks for that, have you stopped buying proofs coins for these reasons you noted from the RM and dealers and difficult to sell?

Im also reading that grading is a lottery but personally for me I have no intentions of grading this set. The box is absolutely gorgeous in my inexperience opinion so I would rather have it in the box. 

No I still very occasionally buy proofs or other premium releases. For example only yesterday I preordered the 2022 SOTD  BU Sov. More recently I’ve somewhat reconciled my lunatic perfect coin hunt tendencies and aside from a good check over with the naked eye, it will be going away to be kept for the long term.

I will say though that I do try and generally stay away from modern proofs due to the associated potential headaches, that’s just me though.

Edited January 8, 2022 by Shep

[SilverJacks]

7 minutes ago, Shep said:

Haha rant over. Apologies.

I enjoyed it. Ran out of likes though. 

4 minutes ago, Slam said:

have you stopped buying proofs coins for these reasons you noted from the RM and dealers and difficult to sell?

When you consider modern proofs RRP lower than their immediate secondary market value, the pros outweigh the cons if you're lucky enough to buy them.

That said, not all modern coins will do well or hold their value so it is a bit of a gamble unless you are confident of it holding value or particularly want the coin and don't care for resale. I have heard the views/concerns of some experienced folk that have doubts over the entire modern commemoratives market... 

[Snorpley]

@Shepyour advice: 'don't get your loupe out', are words I'm going to live by from here on in. 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Snorpley
spelling

[westminstrel]

The fact of the matter is a coin is an actual real-world 3D object - not some digital creation - you are bound to find flaws under 10x magnification.

I’d say if you’re after the perfect PF 70, then magnify it only as much as the graders do, beyond that, don’t let a tiny missing bit of frosting at 10x magnification spoil your enjoyment of what can be a beautiful coin under the naked eye. There is beauty even in flaws.  

Edited January 9, 2022 by westminstrel

[Shep]

4 hours ago, Snorpley said:

@Shepyour advice: 'don't get your loupe out', are words I'm going to live by from here on in. 

Haha well they do say ignorance is bliss. 

In all seriousness I do think a loupe has its place but as @westminstrel and others have said, it’s very easy to over do it and spoil a coin for yourself once you go down that road, especially at higher powers.

It all a bit of a moot point when it comes to grading as I’m sure many people here will tell you that they’ve seen some right dogs of coins sat in 69/70 graded slabs. If the grader deems that the imperfections were created during production rather than post production then its all good apparently. Who knows how they do that, perhaps they throw down some  shamanic voodoo chicken bones or use a time machine to find out the exact time the imperfection came about.

[BiigT]

Got my 3 Coin replacement set. The half sov was flawless, but issues (again) with the others. Initially visible as tiny glints to the naked eye (confirmed under 5x mag). 

The quarter is below and has a really obvious nick. 

[BiigT]

This is the sov. I hasten to add that there were other marks under higher magnification that I didn't complain about, but as you can imagine I've contact CS and await their advice 

[Snorpley]

I’ve got similar marks on my quarter, @BiigT, sorry you got ‘em too. Wanting my ‘stuff’ to be ‘perfect’ is a flaw I remember having back in my early teens at least. I really need to take a step back (literally and figuratively). That said, I’m also big on holding manufacturers to a decent level of quality, particularly when they set that expectation themselves via the marketing material (on the Proof strikes especially). 
I hope you get the result you’re after. All the best. 

[BiigT]

Appreciate that. I don't think I'm being overly pedantic if I can see the flaws at 5x magnification, but I've asked the head of CS to give me her honest opinion about whether I'm expecting the impossible. I completely get that the level of detail is on such a small scale that minute errors can occur... but then maybe I don't really understand the whole proof concept. I'll quite happily concede if they (or anyone here) points out why it's acceptable to see those flaws under the same magnification they apply to quality manage the proofs.

[Snorpley]

I’m very green when it comes to the hobby, so reaching out to the guys here for their take was a great idea. 

[blackadder]

1 hour ago, BiigT said:

Appreciate that. I don't think I'm being overly pedantic if I can see the flaws at 5x magnification, but I've asked the head of CS to give me her honest opinion about whether I'm expecting the impossible. I completely get that the level of detail is on such a small scale that minute errors can occur... but then maybe I don't really understand the whole proof concept. I'll quite happily concede if they (or anyone here) points out why it's acceptable to see those flaws under the same magnification they apply to quality manage the proofs.

Shouldnt have large marks and dents like in pictures,Clearly visible scratches like seen in your pictures is not good enough My 2022 sovs were perfect.

The panthers on the other hand were a right mess,and each return was someone elses return 😂

[Dan12345]

Gonna order myself a bullion one of these today. Theres one thing that really bugs me, why why why do they make them rose gold 😑 would look so much better if it was actually gold colour

[SilverDrum]

3 hours ago, Dan12345 said:

Theres one thing that really bugs me, why why why do they make them rose gold 😑 

Anti theft security feature..."honestly they're copper coin's Mr. Burglar" 😅