Silver Monitoring Thread £ (GBP) only.

[sixgun]

56 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

random, irrelevant and vague rubbish as usual.

it's not like we don't have figures for since 1971 bretton woods or 1947 last date for british silver coin minted.

what's wrong, can't bring yourself to say that it's been 50 years since bretton woods as that would put a time

perspective into how silly it would be to expect a complete failure of the american $ within the next few years?

 

HH

In 1971 a pint of milk was 5p and a large loaf of bread was 10p. Clearly the GBP is not failing. Stronger than ever.
Sometimes i get lost with your posts - i am starting to think you do this to wind me up.
i am now going to promise myself - i have hidden HH's posts for a reason, do not click on 'show post' - do not do it, for your mental health and blood pressure - don't do it.

[sixgun]

11 minutes ago, Stacktastic said:

One day Im going to troll through all these posts and write a book on it.
With the right illustration it would make fantastic political/economic satire tennis for a certain type of person. 

So who's money is on silver plummeting next week? I just bought a full set of queen beasts!

You may remember the 'Sixgun vs HawkHybrid' thread. Happy days - Not.

[Kman]

2 hours ago, sixgun said:

If the US had kept out of wars and other follies, as well as acting like it did before 1913, then the dollar would never have been called into question.

The US had to lend dollars to Europe to rebuild after WW2

Offshore unregulated currency where a free market could decide how best to do things is always going to come up with a better system than a stuffy government

By the 70s the US didnt even know how many dollars there were so how could they still accept them for gold

The Eurodollar / repomarket became an amazing tool for economic growth, if you view currency like oil then the more you have of it the more energy to get things done, if you have a limited supply then you cap growth

Look at the rise of China with the eurodollar and then how it stalled since 2007/8

I think where you and others get it wrong is you think money = has to be a store of value, but what about its role as a tool? that is more important to the global ecomony, growth and trade; its aspect as a tool that is its value

If you have a gold standard then you gain a store of value but lose its value as a tool

 

[Stacktastic]

22 minutes ago, sixgun said:

You may remember the 'Sixgun vs HawkHybrid' thread. Happy days - Not.

No that will shorten my research - sorted. 

I have spoken to them individually and find both thier insights truly useful depending on what I need to know. 

Edited September 26, 2021 by Stacktastic

[Stacktastic]

2 minutes ago, Kman said:

If you have a gold standard then you gain a store of value but lose its value as a tool

What would happen to the gold price if this happened?

[Bigmarc]

1 minute ago, Stacktastic said:

What would happen to the gold price if this happened?

The real manipulation begins

[Minimalist]

1 hour ago, HawkHybrid said:

always dodging the essence of the question. (people don't take you seriously because you are acting childish when confronted

with a serious question)

you are either holding metals long term like china and russia, which you should not expect high short term gains(moon shots)

alternatively, you are expecting high short term gains, in which case don't use china and russia's long term positioning in metal

as a way to defend your short term positioning. long term and short term positioning are very different things.

Your judgement is wrong and insidious.

If members are under that perception, then they are mistaken and will be treated in a insouciant way. Im not here to compose to member(s) perceptions, opinions and desires. I post from a position of truth, curiosity and culture.

Since you really want an answer because you are under this illusion that you think the fiat philosophical commitment is worthy this is my final position: I preserve metal wealth and use it as a protective shield (insurance) against the World Order/Banking Cartel. Like, Russia and China, preserving metal holdings comes from the antonym of historical comprehension - both these entities will be correct along with myself. Ideas that come out of Eton College should be regarded as economic illiteracy and disingenuous intent. The functions of "keynesianism" is to propagate a social and political agenda, to put the 99% into disadvantage through counterfeiter fiat creation for the benefit of one-percenters. It is the 99% who owes the public debt and it is the one-percenters who own the corresponding financial assets - interest on the public debt works like a regressive tax as long as the debt is rolling over. Until you admit that fiat printing is nothing more than a redistribution program the better. I will NEVER... EVER... get on with the agenda pushing of demanding the economy is to produce other outcomes than what most of the people need, prefer and desire. The illusion that the Global Cartel deserves to be elevated over the average persons preferences, that their manipulation and central planning is considered and should be logically followed is an act of lunacy. Not only have you fallen for the establishment, its propaganda pieces, the entirety of the system, it echoes into day-to-day life to the population: "the economies booming" "there is no inflation" these incorrect dogmatic conditioned common beliefs are a reflection of total control. Myself, and others on this forum, can easily conclude that we are a modern fiat slave class - subjugated in every way to the Banking Cartel. Even the littlest of effort to point this out, from the CPI, paper/futures manipulation, the City, legal manoeuvring, quantitative easing and "extraterritorial jurisdiction" is almost always met with a resented or hostile reaction. The average person does not want to admit it because it requires independent thinking then action. Every single bit of it is interconnected, right through the economy and into social actions - the family is being destroyed, there is a lack of love, couples are incapable of loving in comparison to older generations this is simply radiating from most people I have experienced. The public health of this system has pineal glands damaged, oxytocin destroyed by seed oils and GMO, hearts covered by trauma, gut so irritated and inflamed they are unable to think, offended by anything and everything. But dont listen to me, HH. I am only on the right side of history.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Minimalist

[sixgun]

2 hours ago, Kman said:

Offshore unregulated currency where a free market could decide how best to do things is always going to come up with a better system than a stuffy government

Free markets act on self interest. The self interest of what are usually multi-nationals who have no allegiance to anyone but the profit line. 
The USD is stuffed - if the free market system worked well we would not be in this mess for what is in reality for decades. The currency should be by the people and for the people. i know that is a bit American Revolutionary but that is how i believe it should be. Handing over control to faceless bankers is spelt out in this quote.

Quote

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered"

We have entered the inflation stage - funny how things play out.

2 hours ago, Kman said:

By the 70s the US didnt even know how many dollars there were so how could they still accept them for gold

The US was spending dollars hand over fist. They reneged on the promise at Bretton Woods in 1944 not to issue excessive currency. Foreign governments could see they were issuing dollars hand over fist and started demanding the gold. Nixon 'temporarily' suspended the convertibility of the dollar into gold because the British economic representative to Washington went in person to the Treasury and demanded $3 billion in gold. Nothing to do with not knowing how many dollars out there - everything to do with the gold disappearing at a rate of knots.

2 hours ago, Kman said:

The Eurodollar / repomarket became an amazing tool for economic growth, if you view currency like oil then the more you have of it the more energy to get things done, if you have a limited supply then you cap growth

More currency can indeed grease the wheels but the problem is they don't know when to stop and they do not introduce currency for productive reasons. It gets hosed in to get elected, to grease palms, for follies, to pay for wars, to fuel speculation. This is what has happened. You cannot say it has worked well b/c for decades it has been heading down the road to ruin. That road gets steeper and steeper - it is now out of control. The USD is going to collapse. They have lost control of the bus and it is going over the cliff. They cannot stop pumping in exponentially increasing amounts of currency and they cannot increase interest rates. 

 

2 hours ago, Kman said:

Look at the rise of China with the eurodollar and then how it stalled since 2007/8

The Western financial system died in 2007 / 08 - we have been witnessing the corpse rot since then. 

Edited September 26, 2021 by sixgun

[sixgun]

1 hour ago, Stacktastic said:

No that will shorten my research - sorted. 

I have spoken to them individually and find both their insights truly useful depending on what I need to know. 

Sometimes you need to know something and sometimes you don't need to know anything. 
Take your pick.

[Martlet]

12 hours ago, HerefordBullyun said:

There is lot of articles speculating they have, I dont doubt that havent considered it, and some saying its coming next year. They already have a petro yuan, 

https://goldalliance.com/blog/is-china-planning-to-attack-the-dollar-with-a-gold-backed-yuan/

https://kingworldnews.com/china-will-launch-a-digital-gold-backed-currency-at-the-start-of-2022/

It would seem logical they do as the greenifying of the oil sector continues.

What you have to understand and your talking to is an IT guy, and a bloke who knows a thing or two from serving in the forces,

Tech is a double edged sword, it can be used for the good or used as weapon, But also nothing in tech is foolproof including crypto. Its exploitable.

So if you had something thats exploitable why wouldnt you give it a secondary layer of being backed by a hard trackable asset like gold.

The chinise are one of the cleverest harding working race on the planet, but the downside they rule by fist.

If you want to say by 2025 that china  will have a gold backed CDBC Im happy to take the bet if you have the khunas - say 10oz of silver?

It's not about the tech (also in IT), its about the thesis of backing currency in anything other than fiat.  If a country wants to back their currency, chose one otherwise it  undermines the the backing.  Using both gold and crypto says you dont trust the other method, so which one isnt to be trusted?  Not really a sound foundation for a national currency.  More likely "digital" currency is just another form of fiat, no backing of either, because that gives the nation monetary and fiscal flexibility that a hard  currency denies them. 

 

[HerefordBullyun]

1 hour ago, Minimalist said:

Your judgement is wrong and insidious.

If members are under that perception, then they are mistaken and will be treated in a insouciant way. Im not here to compose to member(s) perceptions, opinions and desires. I post from a position of truth, curiosity and culture.

Since you really want an answer because you are under this illusion that you think the fiat philosophical commitment is worthy this is my final position: I preserve metal wealth and use it as a protective shield (insurance) against the World Order/Banking Cartel. Like, Russia and China, preserving metal holdings comes from the antonym of historical comprehension - both these entities will be correct along with myself. Ideas that come out of Eton College should be regarded as economic illiteracy and disingenuous intent. The functions of "keynesianism" is to propagate a social and political agenda, to put the 99% into disadvantage through counterfeiter fiat creation for the benefit of one-percenters. It is the 99% who owes the public debt and it is the one-percenters who own the corresponding financial assets - interest on the public debt works like a regressive tax as long as the debt is rolling over. Until you admit that fiat printing is nothing more than a redistribution program the better. I will NEVER... EVER... get on with the agenda pushing of demanding the economy is to produce other outcomes than what most of the people need, prefer and desire. The illusion that the Global Cartel deserves to be elevated over the average persons preferences, that their manipulation and central planning is considered and should be logically followed is an act of lunacy. Not only have you fallen for the establishment, its propaganda pieces, the entirety of the system, it echoes into day-to-day life to the population: "the economies booming" "there is no inflation" these incorrect dogmatic conditioned common beliefs are a reflection of total control. Myself, and others on this forum, can easily conclude that we are a modern fiat slave class - subjugated in every way to the Banking Cartel. Even the littlest of effort to point this out, from the CPI, paper/futures manipulation, the City, legal manoeuvring, quantitative easing and "extraterritorial jurisdiction" is almost always met with a resented or hostile reaction. The average person does not want to admit it because it requires independent thinking then action. Every single bit of it is interconnected, right through the economy and into social actions - the family is being destroyed, there is a lack of love, couples are incapable of loving in comparison to older generations this is simply radiating from most people I have experienced. The public health of this system has pineal glands damaged, oxytocin destroyed by seed oils and GMO, hearts covered by trauma, gut so irritated and inflamed they are unable to think, offended by anything and everything. But dont listen to me, HH. I am only on the right side of history.

Bang in the money there mate. When theres this which is part of the World Ecomonic forum. What they put forward.

 

which is frightening!

 

[Martlet]

1 hour ago, Kman said:

...

I think where you and others get it wrong is you think money = has to be a store of value, but what about its role as a tool? that is more important to the global ecomony, growth and trade; its aspect as a tool that is its value

If you have a gold standard then you gain a store of value but lose its value as a tool

That's it exactly.  Our current money is a poor store of value over long term, no would dispute that except how to define the term.  However we have many other assets to serve that purpose better, so we shift our store of value to those for long term.  History shows repeatedly that hard money depreciates due to inflation over longer term too, so its not a solution to that problem anyway. 

Edited September 26, 2021 by Martlet

[Martlet]

double.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Martlet

[sixgun]

35 minutes ago, Martlet said:

It's not about the tech (also in IT), its about the thesis of backing currency in anything other than fiat.  If a country wants to back their currency, chose one otherwise it  undermines the the backing.  Using both gold and crypto says you dont trust the other method, so which one isnt to be trusted?  Not really a sound foundation for a national currency.  More likely "digital" currency is just another form of fiat, no backing of either, because that gives the nation monetary and fiscal flexibility that a hard  currency denies them. 

 

The United States fiat dollar is "backed by the full faith and credit of the United States" - it draws its value from the worth of the country, the tax generative capacity of that government, so although us crackpots say it is unbacked, it isn't quite except the United States went bankrupt in 1931, it has over $200 trillion in liabilities and there almost certainly isn't any gold in Fort Knox. i think the US credit card is well and truly max'd out.

A national crypto is simply a blockchain currency. It is the medium of exchange. This could be backed by the full faith and credit of Timbuctoo or wherever - there again each unit of the blockchain could be backed by allocated or unallocated assets such as gold. When the fiat system blows up, is another fiat system going to be accepted? Currencies are about confidence. Today currencies are a confidence trick.

Backing does not need to be full backing - certainly when the UK was on the gold standard the currency was not 100% backed but at least it had some backing. It was around 46% before WWI. The British Empire ran on the gold standard - the world was undergoing tremendous growth - not hampered by the gold standard - quite the opposite. This was a stabilising force.
'Flexibility' as it occurs in the real world i see as a banker and politician's con trick. It means being able to spend what you haven't got - to run up debt to cripple future generations - to steal savings through inflation. It means banks can conjure currency up for $quadrillions of speculation. In the article below it describes the period 1870 - 1914 as the most perfect gold standard. Then came the massive folly of WWI which was the beginning of the end of the British Empire.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanlewis/2013/01/03/the-1870-1914-gold-standard-the-most-perfect-one-ever-created/?sh=4fc390444a6a 

Edited September 26, 2021 by sixgun

[Minimalist]

17 minutes ago, HerefordBullyun said:

You want a good laugh, people who hate the Soviet Union support that message. You couldnt make it up honestly - the conditioning has removed their ability to judge self awareness and cognitive dissonance.

[Martlet]

 

8 minutes ago, sixgun said:

A national crypto is simply a blockchain currency. It is the medium of exchange. This could be backed by the full faith and credit of Timbuctoo or wherever - there again each unit of the blockchain could be backed by allocated or unallocated assets such as gold. When the fiat system blows up, is another fiat system going to be accepted? Currencies are about confidence. Today currencies are a confidence trick.

There is no way to back a currency with any asset without trust.  Applies with a blockchain backed by assets, you must trust the authority giving new issuance has recieved and secured the asset, and there is no rehypotecation.  You do not know, absolutly, 100% certainty, there isnt any manipulation or false information, you rely on trust.  The entire premise of blockchain based crypto currency is to be trustless, that the algorithm and cryptography ensures there is only the stated issuance.  So a national digital currency and a national crypto currency would be two very different beasts. 

[Kman]

21 minutes ago, sixgun said:

. The British Empire ran on the gold standard - the world was undergoing tremendous growth - not hampered by the gold standard - quite the opposite. This was a stabilising force.

Debatable but a moot point regardless

Hunter gatherer worked

Pre-iron age worked

Pre-industrial worked

Pre-internet worked 

etc etc

But things grow around new innovations and society becomes dependent on them, should they be taken away it would cause great chaos and shrinkage

 

[sixgun]

3 minutes ago, Martlet said:

  So a national digital currency and a national crypto currency would be two very different beasts. 

i didn't mention digital but i would classify crypto as a subset of digital currencies. 

i am involved in Kinesis - a gold and silver currency system on the Kinesis blockchain. The Indonesian government has defined it as 'digital physical gold' (and silver) and keeping away from the definition of crypto at the moment seems like a good idea.

[Gruff]

10 minutes ago, sixgun said:

i didn't mention digital but i would classify crypto as a subset of digital currencies. 

i am involved in Kinesis - a gold and silver currency system on the Kinesis blockchain. The Indonesian government has defined it as 'digital physical gold' (and silver) and keeping away from the definition of crypto at the moment seems like a good idea.

I wouldn't classify crypto, the traditional Bitcoin, Ethereum etc.. as a digital currency. Digital currencies will be centralised and government/central bankster controlled.
The whole purpose of Bitcoin was to be decentralised. Where there needs to be quorum to validate the blockchain and the transactions upon it. 
Yes, this could in theory be controlled if a country/government entity were to be able to successfully gain more than 50% of the nodes of said blockchain, but the premise of decentralisation is at the heart of crypto.
It is also immutable, so that all transactions can be validated and seen forever. Something that the goverments and central banksters definitely don't want!

[sixgun]

22 minutes ago, Gruff said:

I wouldn't classify crypto, the traditional Bitcoin, Ethereum etc.. as a digital currency. Digital currencies will be centralised and government/central bankster controlled.
The whole purpose of Bitcoin was to be decentralised. Where there needs to be quorum to validate the blockchain and the transactions upon it. 
Yes, this could in theory be controlled if a country/government entity were to be able to successfully gain more than 50% of the nodes of said blockchain, but the premise of decentralisation is at the heart of crypto.
It is also immutable, so that all transactions can be validated and seen forever. Something that the goverments and central banksters definitely don't want!

i get what you say. This is a matter of definitions and interpretations of those definitions. The decentralised element of a crypto is seen as an important element. The anonymous 'unconnected' validation occurs at multiple nodes.
Personally i see them all as digital assets on the blockchain. If they are used as mediums of exchange, they are currencies and some are decentralised. 
As soon as you are dealing with a digitised asset if has to start centralising. Who is going to hold the asset? whether it is a mountain of salt, bars of gold or a billion barrels of oil.
You either have something as unbacked and decentralised or centralised and backed. Unbacked is just another fiat in another form. Bitcoin is said to be capped - but then how many times has it forked? It is multiple forks of 'thin air' that took a country's worth of electricity to validate. 

Edited September 26, 2021 by sixgun

[Bigmarc]

42 minutes ago, Gruff said:

I wouldn't classify crypto, the traditional Bitcoin, Ethereum etc.. as a digital currency. Digital currencies will be centralised and government/central bankster controlled.
The whole purpose of Bitcoin was to be decentralised. Where there needs to be quorum to validate the blockchain and the transactions upon it. 
Yes, this could in theory be controlled if a country/government entity were to be able to successfully gain more than 50% of the nodes of said blockchain, but the premise of decentralisation is at the heart of crypto.
It is also immutable, so that all transactions can be validated and seen forever. Something that the goverments and central banksters definitely don't want!

I think the creator's of bit coin and any other crypto never intended for it to be controlled by exchanges. It's a shame but realistic to assume that 99% of all crypto holders never intend to use it as actual currency but to trade it as you would the stock exchange. I do also feel the crypto market reacts with the stock market. I would say there is a massive element of control here and feel it's a shame as it had so much in store for it, not necessarily for the western world but as a alternative for third world countries.

[Fishy321]

https://youtu.be/A0mBAsIPS1w    gotta say I love Bill Hicks and also I'm not so great at tech if this link works its a miracle 🙂 wish me luck 

[Gruff]

@sixgun I understand what you mean. However that is where the mining of tokens it used, and of course at some far distant future when the last block of BTC has been mined, then who controls and manages the nodes. How do those decentralised entities get recompensed?! However as soon as it is used as currency it doesn't need to be stored centrally. currently miners mine the tokens and then sell them, however at the moment due to banking regulation and the elites wanting to control them, buying them on an open market platform is nigh on impossible, so you have to use Coinbase. I suppose that can be classed as being centralised to a point as it is funnelled through a few infividuals much like the distribution of fiat is now.
I get it, it isn't perfect

Wrt the hard forks, where have those others gone? Bitcoin Cash I think is the only one to have done something but it isn't near the store of value that BTC is. Now I know that is very different to a "coin" that can be used as a medium of exchange and have minimal transaction costs etc... 

I'm not shilling crypto to anyone. I personally have a small bit as a hedge but my main hedge is PMs outside of any bankers fat grubby fingers.

[Gruff]

I think we're getting slightly off topic now for this thread.

Have you seen the silver price this morning 

[Gruff]

6 hours ago, Fishy321 said:

https://youtu.be/A0mBAsIPS1w    gotta say I love Bill Hicks and also I'm not so great at tech if this link works its a miracle 🙂 wish me luck 

God bless him. Wise beyond words!