1/4 Ounce Silver Britannia - Worth 33% Premium?

[ColonelMustard]

Greetings all - longtime lurker, first-time poster.

I've been stacking silver since 2015 and initially favored 100oz RCM bars but lately have added a variety of sovereign 1oz coins.  

I've recently become enamoured with the notion of further diversifying my holdings with fractional silver coins.  Though I seriously considered importing junk silver from the US, a 17% premium plus the extra cost and hassle of shipping to Europe left me unwilling to pull the trigger.  

In exploring other avenues, I've come across a newly minted 1/4 ounce silver Britannia which, when bought in bulk, can be had at ~33% premium compared to ~22% over spot for a standard tube of 1oz Britannias.

A few points upon which I seek your collective counsel:

- Is there a compelling rationale for owning fractional silver versus 1oz coins or larger bars?

- Do you find the 33% premium reasonable compared to the 22% required to get a 1oz coin?  

- Would you consider this 1/4 ounce Britannia an approximate stand-in for junk silver in one's precious metals portfolio?

- Does anyone have any specific reviews of the coin itself?  (2021 is the first year of issue and it doesn't seem to have gotten much traction in the stacker community as of yet.)

- Anything and everything you might have to say on this issue.

Thanks in advance for your advice and expertise!

[Zhorro]

There was certainly a quarter ounce Britannia released in 2014 produced with silver recovered from the wreck of the SS Gairsoppa.  I bought one and obviously it had a high premium but it was in special packaging.

I think most stackers would stick to the full ounce rather than pay the higher premium on the fractions.

[LawrenceChard]

2 hours ago, ColonelMustard said:

I've been stacking silver since 2015 and initially favored 100oz RCM bars but lately have added a variety of sovereign 1oz coins.  

- Do you find the 33% premium reasonable compared to the 22% required to get a 1oz coin?  

Does anyone have any specific reviews of the coin itself?  (2021 is the first year of issue and it doesn't seem to have gotten much traction in the stacker community as of yet.)

 

I have to tell you there are not such things as sovereign 1oz coins, so I hope you haven't been buying any non-existent coins.

33% premium reasonable - not totally unreasonable, but why pay so much for bullion?

Quarter ounce silver Britannias have been issued since 1997, but originally only proofs as part of a 4 coin set.

https://24carat.co.uk/frame.php?url=silverbritannias.php

 

 

[Tortoise]

I am just curious, but why stack silver and worry about the premiums on it,  when the premiums on gold are much lower?   What are you hoping to achive with your stacking?

[ColonelMustard]

Thanks for your comments!  

There was certainly a quarter ounce Britannia released in 2014 produced with silver recovered from the wreck of the SS Gairsoppa.

Indeed, there was that special edition 1/4 ounce Britannia minted as a one-time  commemorative but it seems more of a numismatic piece than bullion.  The current release is nearly identical except for an updated portrait and no text on the sides of the coin.  (Also, I don't think this coin has the new security features seen on the 2021 1oz Britannia.)

I have to tell you there are not such things as sovereign 1oz coins, so I hope you haven't been buying any non-existent coins.

33% premium reasonable - not totally unreasonable, but why pay so much for bullion?

I meant sovereign in the general sense of being issued by a government mint, not the Royal Mint's specific Sovereign gold coin.  

As for justifying the cost, that's why I came to seek some perspectives here.  In my mind the smaller size could fill the niche left vacant by the lack of easy access to junk silver and in the current environment, I think the increased premium would be recouped on resale.  Additionally, if indeed there's a sliver of a chance the value of silver does actually "go to the moon", owning smaller increments than one ounce could prove advantageous.    

I am just curious, but why stack silver and worry about the premiums on it,  when the premiums on gold are much lower?   What are you hoping to achive with your stacking?

I try to maintain a balanced stack of all four precious metals in specific percentages and this go-around is simply silver's turn come around again.  I'm not particularly worried about the premiums per se but was trying to suss out if an extra ~2.50€ per ounce for  fractional coins is worth it versus the standard one ounce coin.

As for what I'm hoping to achieve, it's multi-faceted:  long-term savings, SHTF insurance, accumulation of intergenerational wealth, and, last but not least, collecting shiny things is fun! 

Edited June 18, 2021 by ColonelMustard

[TeaTime]

I bought a tube and paid £200 (with postage) for the privilege - works out at £10 a coin or 100% premium....

Why ? Because i like them and get pleasure out of owning them. Long term i will either make money on them or end up turning them in to jewellery.

(The 2006 1/10oz bullion Britannias coins sell for £12-£15 each presently)

[Tortoise]

16 hours ago, ColonelMustard said:

I am just curious, but why stack silver and worry about the premiums on it,  when the premiums on gold are much lower?   What are you hoping to achive with your stacking?

I try to maintain a balanced stack of all four precious metals in specific percentages and this go-around is simply silver's turn come around again.  I'm not particularly worried about the premiums per se but was trying to suss out if an extra ~2.50€ per ounce for  fractional coins is worth it versus the standard one ounce coin.

As for what I'm hoping to achieve, it's multi-faceted:  long-term savings, SHTF insurance, accumulation of intergenerational wealth, and, last but not least, collecting shiny things is fun! 

I certainly agree that collecting the shiny stuff is is fun. 

Gold for me is a long term invesment and SHTF insurance to some extent too, although I think it highly unlikey they will, but if things ever get that bad, food and water might be better than gold.

I just keep at least 6 months expenditure in cash and the rest in equities, bonds and a some gold.  I think the premiums are too high for me on silver, but good luck with your stacking.

 

 

[HawkHybrid]

41 minutes ago, Tortoise said:

Gold for me is a long term invesment and SHTF insurance to some extent too, although I think it highly unlikey they will, but if things ever get that bad, food and water might be better than gold.

 

imo supplies of food and water will always be a better bet than gold, not just when things get ugly.

bulk buying foods guarantee savings and improve consistency.

 

HH

[stefffana]

Hi, @ColonelMustard,

About 1/4 Britannia, I really don't know if 33% is good or not. Probably yes, but it is not attractive for me. Are too good, expensive and new to be considered "junk", and personally I prefer another type of "junk silver" or "constitutional silver".

In UK, british old currency is very popular and very cheap (@ spot for Pre47, @ 10-20% over spot for Pre20).

You are from Europe, so you can have easy access to another circulated silver coins to buy as a substitute for american "junk silver":

1: Spain - 100 Pesetas 1966 - 19g, .800 silver 

2: Italy - 500 lire 1958-1967 - 11g, .835 silver

3: France, Switzerland, Belgium - a large variety of francs, purity .680 to .835 silver

4: Austria - 5 schilling 1960-1968, 10 schilling 1957-1973, several types and years of 25, 50 and 100 schilling, with purity between .640 and .900 silver

5: Germany - from 1/2 mark to 10 mark, almost all years until 1972, purity from .620 to .900

6: Nederland - a large variety of fractional silver gulden.

Good luck in discovering nice and cheap coins!🤗

Stefan.

[27carrots]

Quote

Do you find the 33% premium reasonable compared to the 22% required to get a 1oz coin?

They are a good deal if you are prepared to put the time in to resell them in small amounts for a profit but if you are hoping to sell them one day as a monster box I think you'd be better off with lower premium stuff.

Quote

long-term savings, SHTF insurance, accumulation of intergenerational wealth, and, last but not least, collecting shiny things is fun!

I'd say no then.

- best to resell in the short term

-worth spot at best if SHTF

-have to store a big box for decades

-all the same coins

[stackerp5]

Recently received some of my own. Imported from Estonia to UK without paying vat luckily. Paid less than €10 per coin for two tubes with shipping.

Bought it for the novelty (for me really) and just to have them. Luckily had some extra cash at hand I could spare and take the gamble with vat and thought "why not?"!

They look lovely and are extremely detailed as you would expect but I did wish they had the new 2021 security feature! The look and feel to them is something else and doesnt really compare to a 1ozer Brit - stragely good, in a way haha. I might be saying this because never had a fractional silver coin but that's how I see it

As for the situations OP mentioned above, all I can say is I think if this as further diversification of my silver portfolio, but still within my range of comfort and risk. If silver shoots the moon then I'm grateful for having some, then again I do have some casting grain which is even more divisible. If I stand to sell at spot in the future (wherever it may be), It will be just that. 

Then again why would RM produce fractional silver again? The conspiracy theorist in me likes to think silver price will rise, or that RM is going for a cash grab riding the wallstreet silver hype. Dont know, I just like the coin and a nifty new addition to my portfolio/collection

edit: pictures dont do it justice, the Britannia side background detail looks mesmerising to me!

 

Edited June 19, 2021 by stackerp5
Pics

[ColonelMustard]

15 hours ago, Tortoise said:

I think the premiums are too high for me on silver, but good luck with your stacking.

Thanks for your well wishes!  

The vast majority of my silver holdings were purchased between 14-17 USD per ounce so it's only willingness to accept cost averaging that allows me to consider buying at current prices.  

I've seen countless internet nay-sayers who bought into silver at $50 back in 1980 or 2011 and are still waiting to get their investment back into the black which puts the current spot price into better perspective.  Additionally, as the spot price and actual in-your-hand price continue to drift apart, it would seem that the spot price itself is no longer a meaningful indicator of value.

14 hours ago, stefffana said:

You are from Europe, so you can have easy access to another circulated silver coins to buy as a substitute for american "junk silver"

Thanks for putting these coins on my radar but are they really so easily accessible?  No European dealer I've seen offers face value junk silver bags like the big North American outfits.  (My choices are limited further by having a moral objection to forking over an extortionate 20% VAT!)  Are the European circulated silver coins you mentioned primarily available via Ebay, the trading forums here, or local coin shops?

4 hours ago, stackerp5 said:

I think if this as further diversification of my silver portfolio, but still within my range of comfort and risk.

I really like the idea of a diversified portfolio so see the value in products from a variety of mints and of varying sizes.  

In the European context, only silver coins make sense as even Estonia charges VAT for silver bars and rounds.  Amongst coins, the two or ten ounce options from the Royal Mint and the Aussie kilo coins all cost more per ounce than a standard one ounce coin but with less liquidity at resale.  These 1/4 ounce Britannias are also more per ounce but with three times the minting fees for the same amount of metal it doesn't strike me as too egregious.  To my mind, they occupy an interesting niche in the middle ground between circulated junk silver and the traditional one ounce bullion coin.

[stefffana]

4 hours ago, ColonelMustard said:

Thanks for your well wishes!  

The vast majority of my silver holdings were purchased between 14-17 USD per ounce so it's only willingness to accept cost averaging that allows me to consider buying at current prices.  

I've seen countless internet nay-sayers who bought into silver at $50 back in 1980 or 2011 and are still waiting to get their investment back into the black which puts the current spot price into better perspective.  Additionally, as the spot price and actual in-your-hand price continue to drift apart, it would seem that the spot price itself is no longer a meaningful indicator of value.

Thanks for putting these coins on my radar but are they really so easily accessible?  No European dealer I've seen offers face value junk silver bags like the big North American outfits.  (My choices are limited further by having a moral objection to forking over an extortionate 20% VAT!)  Are the European circulated silver coins you mentioned primarily available via Ebay, the trading forums here, or local coin shops?

I really like the idea of a diversified portfolio so see the value in products from a variety of mints and of varying sizes.  

In the European context, only silver coins make sense as even Estonia charges VAT for silver bars and rounds.  Amongst coins, the two or ten ounce options from the Royal Mint and the Aussie kilo coins all cost more per ounce than a standard one ounce coin but with less liquidity at resale.  These 1/4 ounce Britannias are also more per ounce but with three times the minting fees for the same amount of metal it doesn't strike me as too egregious.  To my mind, they occupy an interesting niche in the middle ground between circulated junk silver and the traditional one ounce bullion coin.

These "junk silver" coins are not easy accessible, but this is the funny part of hunting.

On forum sometimes are very good offers, try car boots sales or coin shops in your area. Also, sometimes on ebay you can have very good deals.

You can even put an advert on forum about wanted coins and you will be surprised how many offers you will have.

Cheers!

Stefan.

[stefffana]

1 minute ago, stefffana said:

These "junk silver" coins are not easy accessible, but this is the funny part of hunting.

On forum sometimes are very good offers, try car boots sales or coin shops in your area. Also, sometimes on ebay you can have very good deals.

You can even put an advert on forum about wanted coins and you will be surprised how many offers you will have.

Cheers!

Stefan.

 

[StackemHigh]

Much more of a collectors coin. Investors would run a mile at these premium!

Buy if you like 'em coin!

[Arganto]

Getting spot price US "junk" silver is difficult outside the USA, but there are sellers on the forum that sell it for a reasonable premium in good or better than good condition. ~20% for quarters makes it a decent proposition especially as you stand a good chance of recouping the premium come resale time. US silver is great in hand and makes a great noise 😁

[cylinder99]

On 22/06/2021 at 02:58, StackemHigh said:

Much more of a collectors coin. Investors would run a mile at these premium!

Buy if you like 'em coin!

Stumbled across my local dealer selling the 1/4 oz silver Britannia at a "reasonable" premium (for a fractional silver coin) so I bought a tube of 19.  Not the best investment but fun to handle and play with 😁

[iacabu]

Quite an old thread so I wonder if the OP bought any 🤔

 

I like fractional coins and have a number of 1/10th oz, but also have a Gairsoppa 1/4 and a 2021 1/4. All of which cost too much but I enjoy collecting them. 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Iacabu

[kena]

I also like obtaining the bullion silver fractional Britannia coins when I can find folks selling individual ones.  I have two different years of the 1/4 ounce SS Gairsoppa ones as well as just one 1/10 ounce and 1/4 ounce Britannia.  Years ago, I saw 2011 half ounce silver bullion one for sale but no stock was left when I a tried to order one.

Anyone know what years fractional silver bullion ones could be found?

[ShadowTriad]

15 hours ago, kena said:

I also like obtaining the bullion silver fractional Britannia coins when I can find folks selling individual ones.  I have two different years of the 1/4 ounce SS Gairsoppa ones as well as just one 1/10 ounce and 1/4 ounce Britannia.  Years ago, I saw 2011 half ounce silver bullion one for sale but no stock was left when I a tried to order one.

Anyone know what years fractional silver bullion ones could be found?

I believe the royal mint has only issued:

1/10 oz 2006 Flag

1/2 oz 2011 Standing

1/4 oz 2013 SS Gairsoppa

1/4 oz 2014 SS Gairsoppa

1/4 oz 2021 Standing

1/10 oz 2020 Standing

1/10 oz 2021 Standing

fractional silver bullion Britannia's.

The royal mint has issued others as part of sets of silver proof Britannia's.

Edited August 15, 2021 by ShadowTriad

[kena]

@ShadowTriadthank you for the list.  Looks like I have four from the list already.

Just need to hunt down single ones of:

1/10 oz 2006 Flag

1/2 oz 2011 Standing

1/10 oz 2021 Standing

as well as 2015 Standing Britannia - Year of the Sheep/Ram/Goat Privy Mark

I somewhat already decided that the 2019 Year of the Pig privy mark one is going to be hard to fine and expensive, so I am okay with not having that one.

Is the information true that I heard the 2021 Year of Ox privy mark one is not going to be made?

I am only interested in the bullion releases.

[Scaffstacker]

On 22/06/2021 at 20:55, Liam84 said:

Getting spot price US "junk" silver is difficult outside the USA, but there are sellers on the forum that sell it for a reasonable premium in good or better than good condition. ~20% for quarters makes it a decent proposition especially as you stand a good chance of recouping the premium come resale time. US silver is great in hand and makes a great noise 😁

Couldn’t agree more I’ve got a couple of tubes worth of quarters and a tube of dimes, love the sound and playing with them almost like pirate treasure haha aim to have literal buckets by the time I retire.

[ShadowTriad]

On 15/08/2021 at 10:28, kena said:

@ShadowTriadthank you for the list.  Looks like I have four from the list already.

Just need to hunt down single ones of:

1/10 oz 2006 Flag

1/2 oz 2011 Standing

1/10 oz 2021 Standing

as well as 2015 Standing Britannia - Year of the Sheep/Ram/Goat Privy Mark

I somewhat already decided that the 2019 Year of the Pig privy mark one is going to be hard to fine and expensive, so I am okay with not having that one.

Is the information true that I heard the 2021 Year of Ox privy mark one is not going to be made?

I am only interested in the bullion releases.

 

No worries!

I only have a tube of the 1/4 oz 2021 Standing and I want to go back and pick up a tube of the other fractional britannia at some point in the future. I am also trying to go back and pick up the britannia privy marks so I can have the set. They rarely are put up for sale on here and I don't buy off of eBay.

The pig privy is rare and the word of the street is that a trust fund bought the majority of the stock of them as an investment which is why they rarely are put up for sale. If you want the pig I believe that it will cost you around £300 as it has gone for that price in the past but I am not sure what the market price for it is right now.

I am not sure about the year of the ox privy mark Britannia. I have heard that the Royal Mint will be discontinuing the bullion lunar series and not issuing the bullion year of the ox despite releasing the proof year of the ox this year because the series is not popular but I have not heard anything about the Royal Mint discontinuing the luna privy Britannia series as well so far.

Edited August 16, 2021 by ShadowTriad

[StackemHigh]

On 15/08/2021 at 17:15, ShadowTriad said:

I am not sure about the year of the ox privy mark Britannia. The have heard that the Royal Mint will be discontinuing the bullion lunar series and not issuing the bullion year of the ox despite releasing the proof year of the ox this year because the series is not popular but I have not heard anything about the Royal Mint discontinuing the luna privy Britannia series as well so far.

It's all indian whispers and gossip from the royal mint probably miss a year out just for the hell of it. It is the royal mint after all.

[ShadowTriad]

1 minute ago, StackemHigh said:

It's all indian whispers and gossip from the royal mint probably miss a year out just for the hell of it. It is the royal mint after all.

It is all just through the grapevine of the Royal Mint. I do not know what the Royal Mint is doing and I don't know if the Royal Mint itself even knows what it is doing half the time. When the 1 oz gold bullion queens beasts complete came out I phoned them up and asked if it would be coming out in 1/4 oz gold and in silver and I was informed that it was only going to come out in the 1 oz gold bullion and the 10 oz silver bullion. Not that long after they came out with the 2 oz silver bullion and the 1 kilo silver bullion. With them flagging my account and the poor quality control they seems to have very poor communication between the departments. I think only a few people at the top know whats going on and the rest are in the dark. They have also made some random choices in the past that it is impossible to guess what they will do next. Though I believe that someone who has a Royal Mint account manager was told that the Royal Mint will be discontinuing the luna series but nothing has officially been confirmed or denied at this point.