kimchi

I watched a video ,don't ask me who it was and when I can't remember. It was referring to a QB's 2oz proof coin that had been graded PF70 but over 6 months had developed severe milkspotting in the slab. As it couldn't hold that grade because of the spotting the person decided to just break it out of the slab and take the loss. I believe he was going to melt it down,also stated that it would be the last time he would send any silver proof coins in for grading.😒😒
It is a gamble when buying silver proofs or bullion coins that they won't develop milkspotting overtime.Saying that I have many silver Britannia's Going back 20 years that are in perfect condition,also old silver proof coins that are fine. 
The RCM in 2018 developed Mintshield technology that reduces (Not eradicates) milkspotting. Obviously they are going to keep this a secret but I'm sure the RM if they so wanted could invest in scientific tests and diagnostic procedures to establish their own type of Mintshied technology if they wanted. Makes you wonder why they havnt done this so far??

This has opened a real can of worms with NGC for me.
To take the milking alone: they've graded some very highly (it may be the minimum expected, but 69 is still a very good grade) despite the milking. But there is no qualification. It's their subjective opinion about 'eye appeal'. The worst milked ones got the worst grades, but to what extent did they disregard the milking on the better examples? Would any have been 70s otherwise? The (presently) unmilked Yale at 70 suggests very possibly, and a reasonable conclusion is that no milked coin can get a 70 - but it is just guesswork.
If they give a milked coin a 69 (and the photo can be checked on the register) it leaves the secondary market stumped if the milking gets worse. At what point would/should a 69 drop a grade or two? It's all subjective at NGC on this in he first place, so will be between buyers and sellers (and between different buyers and sellers).
This is the problem with modern proof silver, especially from certain Mints, and having it graded. NGC is not helping here by grading milked coins without clarification.
I have a milked MS69 Griffin, I'll have to check the register to see if it was milked when graded.
 

Hi all,

I prefer to collect most of my coins in ngc slabs so i sent this set for grading.
i noticed the milk spots and i knew it would not achieve very well but  decided to do it anyway and upgrade any coin to higher grade in the future if i could find any. 
After reading all the disapoinment (including mine) i am not sure if it will be possible to get this set in pf 69-70 as very few have been graded and as far as i understand , there wont be any restrikes from the mint. 
If anyone else has graded any of those please let me know. Also please feel free to share your thoughts on my coins. 
Thank you

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

The most painful part of grading is historic coins which end up as details grades because it has slight scratches or cleaned at some time in the past (and before grading was a thing). I have a few coins in details which are fantastic coins but the premium is non-existent because of their grades. I agree that the purpose of grading has to a degree become distorted in recent years and now many people are being the slabs and not buying the coins.
I have a few graded sovereigns and eye appeal and grade are in some cases miles apart - I have a coin in 62 which is far more appealing than many of my higher grade coins. Also telling the difference between a 69 and 70 can be challenging but it’s the same with AU58 to MS63 sovereigns in my experience; some grades and examples completely baffle me.

I think grading in the volumes its happening makes this sort of behaviour inevitable. In every collecting market collectors generally want the best examples of what is out there. Grading sets out a very clear scale with a very clear pursuit for everyone - that 70. If its not perfect, if its not the best example, if its not that 70 then people don't want it. So you get a distortion of values...  70s selling for more than they're likely honestly worth and 69s going for under. Ungraded do better because there is still a chance they could be a 70...
I've said it once and I'll say it again...  I really don't like grading. I really wish it had been left as a tool for authentication as opposed to what it has become. I've been collecting various things for more than 20 years now and slowly as grading entered each market it seemed to do more harm than good. People inevitably default to purchasing and pursuing the grade instead of the coin/other collectable. The coin almost comes secondary to the grade in many cases as people rid themselves of examples that didn't quite reach that 70. Its a shame.

This could be the most accurate take on future possibilities. It seems the US money system is going to be completely digital in the near future. So then how do gold and silver factor in?
So what we may be facing is likely unprecedented. I really believe we have no idea what things will look like. But I don't know what else to do to prepare other than to stack food, water, other necessities, and silver and gold.

So many unknowns... some would say what is coming will be unprecedented in history even handed down directly by our grandfathers' fathers...we may need plenty of food and water and potentially stocked medicines to even get as far as capitalising on gold or silver. Any major 'analyst' who doesn't mention those isn't worth their salt imvho (which is not saying much really as that would be worth an absolute fortune very early on, as would tobacco etc).
Equally, gold and silver could be totally taken out of the equation by confiscation etc and a central (likely world) government-imposed social credit cyptocurrency/credit. Brush up on those hunter/gatherer skills folks, at least we will have those hot chicky babes in furs to look forward to when we get back to our caves with a couple of mangy foxes over our shoulders!
Best practice is to signpost the link directly and clearly in your post

You can find the item listing if you select "completed" items.
The legend does show "100 POUNDS",  so it is not a gold-plated silver version.
It will be base metal, either brass or gold-plated, and almost certainly made in China.
You can probably find them on AliBaba for about £1 to £2 each, but I have not looked.
Speechless? Don't be, this is ebay!

Yesterday I was told by a local bullion dealer of a true story that goes back only a few years ago regarding one of their very good customers who bought sovereigns on a regular basis. Over the years he amassed quite a number that he bought from them and was telling the staff that his preferred hiding place was inside teddy bears that he bought at charity shops which he kept at home. He's carefully unpick the stitching and place a few sovereigns in each one. Not a bad idea, however he died and the shop lost out on a good customer.
A while later his brother enters the shop with 20 sovereigns that he found lying around his deceased brother's house that he was clearing out and sold them back to them. The dealer asked him if there were anymore he was planning to bring in to sell, he said that's all he could find. Then the dealer mentioned about the hidden sovereigns inside the teddy bears and the man's heart sank, all the teddy bears were given away to charity shops! The dealer told me it was the most uncomfortable conversation he's ever had and assumed that he never got any of them back as he never returned.
A good hiding place for coins but no good if the above happens.

I think! similarly! @KevinFlynn
I chose to have some of my wealth in PM's quite a while back (Storing that wealth -purchasing power) and came to the conclusion that the traceability is why there is "War on cash"!
We have had 1984 - "they" are just slow at implementing it!
1/ Yes they  (the powers that be)   - can track the paperwork for the purchase!    RM, Bullion dealers, Ebay, et al - - If they should come knocking for confiscation  - I DON'T HAVE ANY!  - I sold to a guy at the pub - NOW track it!- -= - - -  its "OUT" of the  "SYSTEM"!
 
2/ As an insurance against the financial "hiccups" like 2007/8 (Lehmans et al) -  the beauty here is  - - - if eventually the "INSURANCE" is deemed unnecessary - "You  CAN GET YOUR MONEY BACK" - - -  Try asking for your car insurance back at the end of the year, when you have not had a bump!
Its the only money back insurance I know of!
 
3/ I also believe less and less in the digitised world that is happening (Having been in I.T. for over 30 years)   I can use it extremely well to my advantage!      BUT SO CAN SO MANY OTHERS!  - - - - Fraudsters, Government  etc etc - - - - JUST TRY!  switch off your computer/phone/tablet - and immediately pickup your money in your hand!  
IF you do not HOLD it you do not OWN it!
4/ When "They" control or remove cash and it is all digitised , privacy/freedom has gone! - - - - "negative interest rates" can be implemented at the push of a button.
Bank accounts can be locked/frozen (and there will be NOTHING you can do about it!) - - - Just ask Greeks and Cypriots!! - - (I think that was a "trial" of the ability to do it) 
In between times I can admire and smile at my "SECURITY"  - just try holding share certificates or the digitized equivalent  So with Sunday morning rant over -I hope this will stimulate "outside the box" thinking especially younger or newbies to stacking/collecting/investing.

Gold.de has some details and a nice gallery down the page.
 

On the 1oz privy front, I can probably help…as I spent a happy year or two collecting them. I never found a definitive list of all of them, either on the Perth Mint website or anywhere else…and I did look…really hard!
I do also have a few of the F15 privy 1oz kooks, although not the last two years…I refuse to pay £100+ for one oz of silver! I also never went for the coloured varieties or the lunar. There are also the gilded kooks to consider. 
 
I
The table below is what I consider to be a pretty complete list of all the 1oz privy kooks, most of which I will have an example of. It’s on an excel spreadsheet, so doesn’t import onto the forum easily. Here goes my best shot :-
1992
 
Eagle Proof
1993
 
Sydney Opera House
1993
 
Eagle Proof
1994
 
Commonwealth Games Kangaroo
1995
 
Panda
1995
 
Basler Slab
1996
 
Foundation Stone Centenery 23-9-96
1996
Europe
Brandenberg Gate
1996
Europe
Eiffel Tower 
1996
Europe
Colossus of Rhodes
1996
Europe
Tower Bridge
1996
Europe
Atomism Belgium
1996
 
Tricentennial
1996
 
Panda
1996
 
Goya
1997
 
Goudi
1997
 
Thomas Edison
1997
 
Zurich
1997
 
Oldsmobile
1997
 
Phoenix
1997
 
Dragon
1997
 
Japanese Yen Old Type
1997
 
Panda
1997
Europe
Elk Finland
1997 
Europe
Monument Portugal
1997
Europe
The Windmill Netherlands 
1997
Europe
Italy Coluseum
1997
Europe
Little Mermaid Denmark
1998
Europe
The Harp Ireland 
1998
Europe
Robert Schumann Building Lux
1998
Europe
The Alhambra
1998
Europe
St Stephens Vienna
1998
Europe
The Delaware Ship Sweden
1999
 
1919 Square Penny
1999
 
Delaware State Quarter
1999
 
New Jersey Mint
1999
 
Georgia
1999
 
Pennsylvania
1999
 
Connecticut
1999
 
16th C Japanese Oval Tempo Koban
1999
Bullion
50 Francs Lux
1999
Bullion
20 schilling Austria
1999
Bullion
1Deutschmark 
1999
Bullion
50 Francs Belg
1999
Bullion
1 guilder
1999
Bullion
5 francs France 
1999
Bullion
1000 Lire 
1999
Bullion
100 pesetas
1999
Bullion
50'escudoa
1999
Bullion
1 punt Ireland
1999
Bullion
1 Marka Finland
1999
Landmarks
Perth
1999
Landmarks
Gold Coast
1999
Landmarks
Adelaide
1999
Landmarks
McDonnell
1999
Landmarks
Sydney
1999
 
1899 Centenary Sovereign
2000
Landmarks
Kalgoorlie
2000
Landmarks
Monkey Mia
2000
Landmarks
Gt Barrier Reef
2000
Landmarks
Uluru
2000
Landmarks
Australia 2000
2000
 
Massachusetts
2000
 
Maryland
2000
 
South Carolina
2000
 
New Hampshire
2000
 
Virginia
2000
 
Jan Millennium Calendar 
2000
 
Feb
2000
 
Mar
2000
 
Apr
2000
 
May
2000
 
Jun
2000
 
Jul
2000
 
Aug
2000
 
Sep
2000
 
Oct
2000
 
Nov
2000
 
Dec
2001
 
New York
2001
 
North Carolina
2001
 
Rhode Island
2001
 
Vermont
2001
 
Kentucky
2001
 
Santa Claus
2001
 
Santa Claus
2001
 
Confederation Star
2002
 
American Flag
2005
 
Zodiac Aquarius 
2005
 
Pisces
2005
 
Aries
2005
 
Taurus
2005
 
Gemini
2005
 
Cancer
2005
 
Leo
2005
 
Virgo
2005
 
Libra
2005
 
Scorpio
2005
 
Sagittarius
2005
 
Capricorn
2012
 
Dragon
2013
 
F15
2013
 
Snake
2014
 
F15
2014
 
Horse
2015
 
F15
2015
 
Goat
2016
 
Monkey
2016
 
F15
2017
 
Rooster
2017
 
F15
2017
 
Shark
2017
 
Panda
2018
 
Dog
2018
 
F15
2018
 
Panda
2019
 
Pig 
2019
 
Square penny
2019
 
F15
2019
 
Panda
2020
 
ANDA Perth Money Expo Floral
2020
 
ANDA Brisbane Money Expo
2020
 
ANDA Melbourne Cactus privy
2020
 
ANDA Sydney Floral Privy
I do also have Mintage figures for most of the above, but they would not copy over!
Drop me a PM if you require any more info on the 1oz privy’s👍

This guy has been a go to for me for a while. If you can get past the prancing around Infront of the camera and follow the way he sees the markets it's generally a good source for me. For quiet some time he has been saying that inflation will be hidden in energy and various events that will push up prices. Looking at what is happening around us now it's astonishing. I've got that concerned over it I've told the missus to do her Christmas shopping now. Yet the pm market is un affected. 
Edit.
I told the missus "we" should do "our" Christmas shopping now. 😁 
Edit again.
I politely asked my partner "do you think we should do our Christmas shopping now"

I wonder if you have to pay extra for the milk spots 🐂 or they come for free

In my experience, adverse atmospheric conditions (including how airtight the capsule is) just bring it out faster.
Also anecdotal, but in all my time here on the forum I have not seen a single milk-spotted 925 coin (including, of course, from the Royal Mint, who produce plenty).

In my experience, adverse atmospheric conditions (including how airtight the capsule is) just bring it out faster.
Also anecdotal, but in all my time here on the forum I have not seen a single milk-spotted 925 coin (including, of course, from the Royal Mint, who produce plenty).

I'm not sure what I meant, I suddenly seem to have brain spots...there is a chap who says he's from the Royal Mint here just cooking me dinner (very kind of them indeed, I didn't realise you get that kind of service for sending back a proof - I was only expecting a refund!)...
He appears to be waving around a meat cleaver and what also appears to be a scalp and the top of a skull....very strange...but - yum! - whatever he is cooking smells delicious!!

Did you mean "sweetbreads"? 😎

I think you'd have more joy asking Hannibal Lector what kind of 'sweetmeats' he's just served you for dinner!

In my experience, adverse atmospheric conditions (including how airtight the capsule is) just bring it out faster.
Also anecdotal, but in all my time here on the forum I have not seen a single milk-spotted 925 coin (including, of course, from the Royal Mint, who produce plenty).

This is a good point. I've seen/had plenty of tarnished/toned .925 coins/medals but don't recall ever seeing THE MILK on them. I also don't ever recall seeing anything like that on circulating coins either, which I believe was brought up by someone.
I have had .999 commemorative medals that had atrocious MILK on them. These were made ~early/mid nineties for reference.

I was under the impression that fine silver is most at risk of milk spots at 999.9 but with sterling silver or 500 silver milk spotting is negligible.

Come again?🦻

Is it just me or do these milk spots look like dried ejaculant?

Hello everyone. @ChrisSIlver and I are very happy to announce the official reveal and general release of the 2021 100g Silver Forum Bars!
There are a lot of different aspects to tell you about so I have split this post up into various sections, hopefully this will cover most of your questions but if there is something I have not covered then please feel free to get in touch or comment on this thread. 

What are The Silver Forum Bars all about?
The Silver Forum Bars (in all their sizes) have been created as a way to draw the silver forum community together but also as a fundraising and brand awareness raising exercise. Some of the proceeds from the sales of these bars go directly to The Silver Forum and help keep the forum running in the way we have become accustomed to. Silver Premium, Gold Premium, Platinum and Platinum Plus memberships go a long way to helping the running of the forum and to help keep the membership prices as low as practical, The Silver Forum Bars we make help a lot with this too.
Any support you can give is greatly appreciated.
In addition, these bars are about raising brand awareness for The Silver Forum and to encourage new people to join and to make standard members think about supporting the forum by upgrading their membership or simply supporting the forum on a one off basis. 
Hand Poured Silver Partnership
Hand poured silver has evolved so much in the last 5 years and it is evident that Hallmarked Poured silver is becoming ever more popular.
These bars are all hand poured, stamped and finished by myself meaning each and every bar is unique in some way. The weights will vary bar to bar (although none less than 100g) and the cooling patterns of the silver will also be unique and different for each one. Even the stamping (again done by hand) is different bar to bar.
The allure of hand poured silver is growing stronger month by month and these bars are a brilliant way to start collecting hand poured silver and at the same time supporting the forum and my own business too!
Hallmarking
As with all of my Hand Poured Silver products these bars are Assay Tested and Hallmarked by the Edinburgh Assay Office. 
These bars are hallmarked with a 2mm sized mark - it is a larger and more expensive mark than normal but it really shows off the beauty of the Edinburgh Assay Office's work. 
Hallmarking is a very good addition to any poured silver. It is your guarantee that these bars are indeed 999 fine silver and made by me in 2021.
If anyone wants to find out more about hallmarking please feel free to get in touch!

Schedule, production and delivery
The bars are all made and hallmarked. 
We aim to dispatch the first batch on Monday 16th August
After this date bars will be dispatched to order and any new customers will have their bars dispatched in early September. 
Mintage Figures
The mintage for 2021 has increased to accommodate all the new members on the forum and allow the opportunity for those members to get a bar.
The mintage for 2021 is 175 Bars
Mintage figures are as follows for all the releases of 100g bars to date:
2021: 175 bars
2020: 150 bars
2019: 100 bars
2018: 150 bars
2017: 150 bars
These mintage figures are set and will not change.
Pricing 
Standard or Non member price - £115.00 per bar
Silver Premium member price - £110.00 per bar
Gold & Platinum member price - £105.00 per bar
Platinum Plus member price - £102.50 per bar
UK Postage: 
1 bar: +£3.50 via signed for delivery or +£8 for special delivery 
2 bars or more: Free postage
International postage: +£12.50 tracked for or free for 3+ bars

Forum membership and pricing 
As you can see there are some very good savings to be had for upgrading your membership - so take a look at the benefits that are available for premium and gold premium members today!
 
 
 
Guaranteed bars for owners of 2020 editions
As with all our Silver Forum products we offer first right of refusal to all owners of a previous years serial number. 
So, the following applies:
If you own a bar with a serial number between 1 and 150 from 2020 then you will be able to reserve the same serial number for 2021. If you wish to reserve that number you need to do so BEFORE 31st August 2020. Members who do not own bars from 2020 will be able to put their name down on a waiting list for unallocated bars. After 31st August we will know how many bars are still available against how many people are on the waiting list. In the event that there are more members than bars available we will draw a random ballot to allocate bars to people. We will then communicate a fair and open way to decide who gets what bar serial numbers. Not got a 2020 bar? Join the waiting list today!
To formally join the waiting list all you need to do is comment on this thread or drop me a PM that you wish to have a bar. 
I hope that all makes sense. In summary, you have until 31st August 2021 to reserve and/or pay for your existing serial numbers if you have a 2020 edition.
A few notes on pricing of these bars
These bars are hand poured, hand stamped and polished by me. They take a lot of time and energy and equipment to create. These are premium hand poured silver products, not cheap bullion. They are a way to support the Backyard Bullion business, my brand and most importantly, The Silver Forum. As I said earlier, proceeds from the sale of these bars go towards the upkeep and running costs of this forum. This helps keep membership prices as low as possible for premium and gold premium members and ensures that standard members can still use this forum for free. The price also incorporates the Hallmarking costs, this includes postage of these bars to and from Edinburgh and the application of the hallmark.
Standard members - The difference in price is as a way for you to support the forum in a one off style payment rather than signing up for membership. But also please feel free to upgrade your membership to take advantage of the discounts available. 
Payment Information
To secure the reservation of your bars and serial numbers you will need to pay me before 31st August 2021
If you are interested then please let me know in this thread or via PM and I will then reply with the payment information.
Payment will be via Banks Transfer or PayPal. We can accept other forms of payment too, just ask if you would like to find out more. 
Also, I welcome all feedback and any questions you might have about these bars. 
Thanks for reading and thanks for supporting The Silver Forum!