Investigation into Historic Coin Pricing by The Royal Mint

[SlowFrog]

On 15/02/2024 at 11:28, JamesH said:

If you removed the word “Royal” from the brand, they’d just be another mint, invested in little more than profiteering from those that know no better. Argument can be made that whilst you have those willing to pay whatever price is asked, there’s a market for the mint to sell to but if you take a step back, what do you really get from them that you don’t get elsewhere? Quality control? Behave yourself. Top quality silver? There’s more milking at Royal Mint than a dairy. It’s just not worth buying from them directly and paying the premiums

I feel like you've been a little unfair. I've never had a customer service experience quite like the RM before. I ordered 2 gold bars and only had to wait nearly 3 months for them to arrive, with absolutely no updates as to why my order had been delayed, until I wrote to them a couple of times. Where else can you get service like that?

[BackyardBullion]

My thumbnail for today's video.

Publishing at 5pm

Not my full results, just feedback about the call. 

My full video including responses from The Royal Mint will come out in due course, I am expecting some publishable statements from the royal mint next week to include as responses to our observations.

 

[Agaupl]

Let me guess… there is no problem. Nothing to see here. 🤷‍♂️
Our marketing data says you are too ‘stupid’ to understand..

Edited March 10 by Agaupl

[Paul]

caveat emptor

noun

"the principle that the buyer alone is responsible for checking the quality and suitability of goods before a purchase is made."

Royal mint is still a "for profit" business albeit government owned. Must be enough gullible fools purchasing or they wouldn't do it. If nobody bought nothing, nothing would sell 

[margin]

Bring on the FOI requests!

[Earthmetal]

On 15/02/2024 at 11:28, JamesH said:

If you removed the word “Royal” from the brand, they’d just be another mint, invested in little more than profiteering from those that know no better. Argument can be made that whilst you have those willing to pay whatever price is asked, there’s a market for the mint to sell to but if you take a step back, what do you really get from them that you don’t get elsewhere? Quality control? Behave yourself. Top quality silver? There’s more milking at Royal Mint than a dairy. It’s just not worth buying from them directly and paying the premiums

This is a really valid point that I'd somehow missed. They really are no longer any better than Westminster, Danbury, Tower, et all. And not a patch on the old Pobjoy. Government backed profiteering. Actually, none of the unofficial 'inferior' mints could get away with such shoddy work.
I once saw a collection of Westminster coins, all copper plated with gold and/or silver. Tacky? Yes. Poor quality? No. They were all "mint" (in what used to be the true meaning of the word).
Maybe these days when describing a used car as being in "mint condition" we ought to be describing the fact that it is dented, scratched, and has been quickly tarted up to achieve a vastly inflated price.

[Ted1945]

4 hours ago, BackyardBullion said:

My thumbnail for today's video.

Publishing at 5pm

Not my full results, just feedback about the call. 

My full video including responses from The Royal Mint will come out in due course, I am expecting some publishable statements from the royal mint next week to include as responses to our observations.

 

Disappointed for you 

guess they can’t openly admit so early on to being less than respectful 

however the issue has been raised and thus recourse for later when they issue the next batch of overpriced coins in a tidy box  

 

 

[Petra]

Unfortunately, you’ll all be producing loads of pages on here in anticipation of the next ‘great’ coin and after queuing up for it, once you have it either saying how great in hand or moaning at the quality 🤔😮🤔we all know that the mint needs to improve, but until their staff get a grip nothing is going to change😮😕

[Earthmetal]

2 hours ago, Petra said:

Unfortunately, you’ll all be producing loads of pages on here in anticipation of the next ‘great’ coin and after queuing up for it, once you have it either saying how great in hand or moaning at the quality 🤔😮🤔we all know that the mint needs to improve, but until their staff get a grip nothing is going to change😮😕

I really won't.

[BackyardBullion]

 

 

[cjbcomm]

Listened to this and look forward to further updates.

I think it is important then people push back and make comment when the RM offer some of their overpriced stuff.

I make a point of doing this to whichever of their managers send over their over priced offerings but suspect they will stop sending them through when we keep kicking back.

If they're finding mugs to buy these then they will just continue regardless of what PM realists say 

[bilko]

they emailed me one of their surveys couple of weeks ago, bet they wish they hadn't because I gave them dogs abuse over several different problems, they replied to the review and after the main part of my problem them not giving a stuff they invited me to contact customer services, needless to say I didn't bother and after this 007 coin set I am done with RM

[cjbcomm]

 Had some further correspondence with RM today after my annoyance with their pricing.

They have reduced the prices of a few of their stock and sets with new prices going live tomorrow.

Still silly high pricing but a start at least!

[BackyardBullion]

1 minute ago, cjbcomm said:

 Had some further correspondence with RM today after my annoyance with their pricing.

They have reduced the prices of a few of their stock and sets with new prices going live tomorrow.

Still silly high pricing but a start at least!

Ooh, really? Which ones?

[cjbcomm]

One of these was the George III Two-Coin Graded Premium Set mentined previously that was X2 its actual value for the coins. They've knocked 3k off the price but still far too high.

Interestingly they offered set number 1 which hopefully means they haven't mugged anyone into buying this yet!

[cjbcomm]

1 minute ago, BackyardBullion said:

Ooh, really? Which ones?

Other than the very expensive George III set, see below:

Product Description	Price
Charles III 2022 £5 Sovereign - PF69UC	£3,395
Charles III 2022 Double Sovereign - PF70 UC	£1,795
George VI 1937 £5 Sovereign - PR63	£10,695
Charles I (1625-49) gold Half-Unite Oxford 1643 AU55+	£21,500
Elizabeth II 1980 £5 Sovereign - PF68 UC	£3,595
Elizabeth II 1980 £5 Sovereign - PF65 UC	£3,450
Elizabeth II 1980 Double Sovereign - PF67 UC	£1,750
Edward the Black Prince (1362-72), gold Noble Guyennois a la E or Pavillon D'Or, second issue – NGC MS61	£19,995
George II gold Two Guineas 1740 - NGC AU58	£9,995
George II gold Five Guinea 1753 - PCGS AU55	£55,000
George II  gold Guinea 1753 - NGC MS61	£24,995
George II  gold Half Guinea 1759 -  NGC MS61	£5,295
George VI 1937 £5 Sovereign - PR63 CAM	£10,995
George VI 1937 £5 Sovereign - PR64	£11,995
2021 Elizabeth II PF70 UCAM FR Gold 5oz Griffin of Edward III	£13,495

[BackyardBullion]

So, progress in some ways, but really ultimately not that meaningful. A lot of these sets will just never sell regardless.

Maybe part of this is them trying to save face.

I can 100% guarantee they would not reduce any sets that have sold items from. 

[cjbcomm]

Just now, BackyardBullion said:

So, progress in some ways, but really ultimately not that meaningful. A lot of these sets will just never sell regardless.

Maybe part of this is them trying to save face.

I can 100% guarantee they would not reduce any sets that have sold items from. 

Not meaningful in the slightest. The sovereign variants they have listed, especially in the lower grades, are valued at little more than spot. EG the 1980 Double sold last week for half their price and in 2 grades better.

Suppose they're trying but still way wide of the market

[Silverman2U]

1 hour ago, cjbcomm said:

 Had some further correspondence with RM today after my annoyance with their pricing.

They have reduced the prices of a few of their stock and sets with new prices going live tomorrow.

Still silly high pricing but a start at least!

I too equally shared my concerns on pricing the other day with our RM accounts manager.  

[Bruce06]

4 hours ago, cjbcomm said:

Other than the very expensive George III set, see below:

Product Description	Price
Charles III 2022 £5 Sovereign - PF69UC	£3,395
Charles III 2022 Double Sovereign - PF70 UC	£1,795
George VI 1937 £5 Sovereign - PR63	£10,695
Charles I (1625-49) gold Half-Unite Oxford 1643 AU55+	£21,500
Elizabeth II 1980 £5 Sovereign - PF68 UC	£3,595
Elizabeth II 1980 £5 Sovereign - PF65 UC	£3,450
Elizabeth II 1980 Double Sovereign - PF67 UC	£1,750
Edward the Black Prince (1362-72), gold Noble Guyennois a la E or Pavillon D'Or, second issue – NGC MS61	£19,995
George II gold Two Guineas 1740 - NGC AU58	£9,995
George II gold Five Guinea 1753 - PCGS AU55	£55,000
George II  gold Guinea 1753 - NGC MS61	£24,995
George II  gold Half Guinea 1759 -  NGC MS61	£5,295
George VI 1937 £5 Sovereign - PR63 CAM	£10,995
George VI 1937 £5 Sovereign - PR64	£11,995
2021 Elizabeth II PF70 UCAM FR Gold 5oz Griffin of Edward III	£13,495

Still way too high i believe.

[cjbcomm]

5 hours ago, Bruce06 said:

Still way too high i believe.

Agreed. For example, the 1980 Double PF67 is double the price it would make on the open market

[BackyardBullion]

 

FORMAL STATEMENT BY THE ROYAL MINT

STARTS

Firstly, we would like to thank you for bringing these issues to our attention. We understand the concerns raised and welcome the opportunity to address them directly. The Royal Mint strives to provide customers with premium products and services, and we would like to reiterate that we take all customer feedback seriously.

We have a responsibility to ensure that we provide our customers with quality, authentic coins from reputable dealers. As such, our pricing reflects a variety of factors, not limited to but including, rarity, condition, their historical significance, demand, and grading, as well as packaging and presentation. Before establishing a retail price, The Royal Mint carefully reviews price guides and market trends.

As we source our historic coins in large volumes to ensure we can make enough available for customers on the website, our pricing model is quite different to dealers selling small volumes or one-off pieces. We are unable to compare or offer comment on valuations provided by external sources.

With regards to specific issues raised with products such as the Victoria Young Head Crown, we have taken this feedback and are working to ensure that our website imagery is a more accurate representation of products available. We always want our customers to make informed decisions before purchasing.

We are always working to review and enhance our historic coin offering and we are taking your feedback on board. As a trusted brand, we acknowledge that there may have been instances where we have fallen short of meeting our customers’ expectations. However, we would like to reassure you that we are committed to improving customers' experiences.

ENDS

Your thoughts on a postcard please....

[Petra]

4 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

 

FORMAL STATEMENT BY THE ROYAL MINT

STARTS

Firstly, we would like to thank you for bringing these issues to our attention. We understand the concerns raised and welcome the opportunity to address them directly. The Royal Mint strives to provide customers with premium products and services, and we would like to reiterate that we take all customer feedback seriously.

We have a responsibility to ensure that we provide our customers with quality, authentic coins from reputable dealers. As such, our pricing reflects a variety of factors, not limited to but including, rarity, condition, their historical significance, demand, and grading, as well as packaging and presentation. Before establishing a retail price, The Royal Mint carefully reviews price guides and market trends.

As we source our historic coins in large volumes to ensure we can make enough available for customers on the website, our pricing model is quite different to dealers selling small volumes or one-off pieces. We are unable to compare or offer comment on valuations provided by external sources.

With regards to specific issues raised with products such as the Victoria Young Head Crown, we have taken this feedback and are working to ensure that our website imagery is a more accurate representation of products available. We always want our customers to make informed decisions before purchasing.

We are always working to review and enhance our historic coin offering and we are taking your feedback on board. As a trusted brand, we acknowledge that there may have been instances where we have fallen short of meeting our customers’ expectations. However, we would like to reassure you that we are committed to improving customers' experiences.

ENDS

Your thoughts on a postcard please....

Someone took a lot of effort to reply to you without actually saying anything worthwhile 🤔🤔😮

Edited March 13 by Petra
add

[TheAnimist]

[Silver200sx]

15 minutes ago, BackyardBullion said:

 

FORMAL STATEMENT BY THE ROYAL MINT

STARTS

Firstly, we would like to thank you for bringing these issues to our attention. We understand the concerns raised and welcome the opportunity to address them directly. The Royal Mint strives to provide customers with premium products and services, and we would like to reiterate that we take all customer feedback seriously.

We have a responsibility to ensure that we provide our customers with quality, authentic coins from reputable dealers. As such, our pricing reflects a variety of factors, not limited to but including, rarity, condition, their historical significance, demand, and grading, as well as packaging and presentation. Before establishing a retail price, The Royal Mint carefully reviews price guides and market trends.

As we source our historic coins in large volumes to ensure we can make enough available for customers on the website, our pricing model is quite different to dealers selling small volumes or one-off pieces. We are unable to compare or offer comment on valuations provided by external sources.

With regards to specific issues raised with products such as the Victoria Young Head Crown, we have taken this feedback and are working to ensure that our website imagery is a more accurate representation of products available. We always want our customers to make informed decisions before purchasing.

We are always working to review and enhance our historic coin offering and we are taking your feedback on board. As a trusted brand, we acknowledge that there may have been instances where we have fallen short of meeting our customers’ expectations. However, we would like to reassure you that we are committed to improving customers' experiences.

ENDS

Your thoughts on a postcard please....

 

 "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn’t mean anything at all."