Moral dilemma, What would you do if you were approached to buy some coins? Then you discover an extremely rare coin in the collection

[ZRPMs]

Just a quick Moral dilemma for you to mull over. A friend directs some one they've had dealings with or someone finds out you buy or are into coins or whatever. You are approached buy an unfamiliar person. They ask if you'd be interested in buying a small collection of coins (silver and Gold). On the face of it, nothing out of the ordinary. You meet up and a quick scan over the coins they look like average examples of run of the mill coins. You continue to chat and it's clear the guy doesn't know much about them apart from what he's picked up from just looking on the likes of BBP. You explain that they are usually at the higher end of the retail market for the coins and if he was to sell to them they give quite a bit less. That's understood then you get asked for your offer. However you take a closer look now and discover a super rare coin worth tens of thousands of pound going from the last time it sold. What do you do? Would you 

A, Offer him a bit more than BBP would offer but a bit less than their retail.

B, Tell him you like the collection and would give what BBP are charging for them.

C, Explain that you think there is a rare coin but that it's not worth as much as it its just to get the scoop of the century.

D, Or would you come clean and tell him that he may have a super rare coin and that its worth potentially ten's of thousands of pound at a numismatic auction. 

Had the discussion the other night with some folk and found it quite interesting what some would do. I said I don't think I'd feel comfortable with anything less than option D, Only because I wouldn't want any of my family to be in the same position with my collection should I let loose my mortal coil. I've tried to inform them but you never know.  

[Stuntman]

Option D is the correct and honourable one in order to sleep soundly at night.  If it is communicated sincerely, and you are interested in buying this coin for yourself or for onward selling, it may also give both buyer and friend an opportunity to do well out of the deal and both be happy with the outcome.

[Spyder]

Definitely D.  You could offer to sell it for them and take a commission.  This way both gain out of your knowledge. 

[Bigmarc]

Option A, the decision is out of your hands. 

[paulmerton]

If your intention is to immediately resell the suspected valuable coin, then I think the non-existent option E is always best: Pay a fair price for the lot initially, then pay them a bit extra later on if it turns out that the suspected valuable coin really is very valuable. Less of a gamble, and everyone's happy and can sleep at night.

[CazLikesCoins]

46 minutes ago, ZRPMs said:

Just a quick Moral dilemma for you to mull over. A friend directs some one they've had dealings with or someone finds out you buy or are into coins or whatever. You are approached buy an unfamiliar person. They ask if you'd be interested in buying a small collection of coins (silver and Gold). On the face of it, nothing out of the ordinary. You meet up and a quick scan over the coins they look like average examples of run of the mill coins. You continue to chat and it's clear the guy doesn't know much about them apart from what he's picked up from just looking on the likes of BBP. You explain that they are usually at the higher end of the retail market for the coins and if he was to sell to them they give quite a bit less. That's understood then you get asked for your offer. However you take a closer look now and discover a super rare coin worth tens of thousands of pound going from the last time it sold. What do you do? Would you 

A, Offer him a bit more than BBP would offer but a bit less than their retail.

B, Tell him you like the collection and would give what BBP are charging for them.

C, Explain that you think there is a rare coin but that it's not worth as much as it its just to get the scoop of the century.

D, Or would you come clean and tell him that he may have a super rare coin and that its worth potentially ten's of thousands of pound at a numismatic auction. 

Had the discussion the other night with some folk and found it quite interesting what some would do. I said I don't think I'd feel comfortable with anything less than option D, Only because I wouldn't want any of my family to be in the same position with my collection should I let loose my mortal coil. I've tried to inform them but you never know.  

D for decency. A,B and C options have their own words attached to swindlers and conmen lol.

Edited to add: I'm sure the fictitious mate will be perfectly happy to see some bugger swanning around town in a Bentley bought off his mis-priced coin lol.

Edited December 13, 2023 by CazLikesCoins

[SeverinDigsSovereigns]

Strange that, if someone approaches me with a suspected £10k+ coin for £400 and he doesn't even know much about coins, I'd expect that one to be fake. Not questioning the seller's integrity, but the whole scenario sounds too good to be true.

 

[CazLikesCoins]

16 minutes ago, SeverinDigsSovereigns said:

Strange that, if someone approaches me with a suspected £10k+ coin for £400 and he doesn't even know much about coins, I'd expect that one to be fake. Not questioning the seller's integrity, but the whole scenario sounds too good to be true.

 

 

[Agaupl]

Definitely a suspect confidence trick. Classic scam material. How much of a friend is this friend that recommended this buyer @ZRPMs? 🤣

As a theoretical question you’d have to go D. 

Not a rare coin but I heard of an old lady widow given 25% of spot for a 1oz gold coin of her late husbands. Everyone make sure your family knows the value of your collection!  Worst part was she was really happy about the price 😭

[Shinus73]

It's tricky - if you sell a lot of items at auction, in a cooler market you will sell coins way below their expected worth. Nobody ever offers to give you more.

[CazLikesCoins]

19 minutes ago, Agaupl said:

Definitely a suspect confidence trick. Classic scam material. How much of a friend is this friend that recommended this buyer @ZRPMs? 🤣

I'm not so sure. My friend's shiftless braindead daughter would easily sell his gold coins at spot to whoever makes it easiest for her to get cash when he snuffs it. And she's a perfect example of an idiot coming into possession of valuable coins and letting the lot go for peanuts while the vultures circle for easy pickings.

Edited to add: Someone you hardly know recommending someone you've never met is bound to end in happiness. Probably not for you though lol.

Edited December 13, 2023 by CazLikesCoins

[Agaupl]

2 minutes ago, CazLikesCoins said:

I'm not so sure. My friend's shiftless braindead daughter would easily sell his gold coins at spot to whoever makes it easiest for her to get cash when he snuffs it. And she's a perfect example of an idiot coming into possession of valuable coins and letting the lot go for peanuts while the vultures circle for easy pickings.

Definitely not saying it doesn’t happen. 100% it does.
 But it’s a really common scam also. I’m distrustful so would probably say the ultra rare coin was fake and report then to Binlord of the week even if it wasn’t.

[ZRPMs]

As people might have guessed there is an element of reality to the question. I had been asked about buying 2 sovereigns. The guy said they were his late fathers given to him by his mother. Both parents have now gone to the retirement home in the sky. He said he thought they were specials (think he meant proof) had he was told they cost a lot at the time (classic). I asked if he knew what years they were. 1911 and 1953. He said he was sure. Ok I agreed to meet up with him and look over the coins. At the meeting the chap was nice and tried to tell me they were specials and most likely worth thousands as they were expensive when his father had bought them. Upon looking at them at a glace with the naked eye I could see that they weren't proof but the one he thought was 1953 was and is a nice coin. So I told him what I thought the price of run of the mill sovereigns are worth and after a bit of back and to he agreed, However, I said, If this is a 1953 it's technically a pattern as none were issued for the general population. So I told him that the last time the only one known in private hands was sold it went for about £320,000 in 2014. It's not known if there are more but if this is a genuine 1953 It's worth a bit more than I have on me today. The guy was on fire. He could not contain the excitement. I got my glass out and instantly I read 1958. His face was a picture. Needless to say I did my other checks and offered him the going rate. He accepted and deal was done. Everyone happy.

I asked some of the family and was stunned at some of the replies really. From the 5 of us there only myself and one other went for option D, with one calling me an idiot I should have just taken the chance with out looking too much and bagged it for bullion. Then if it was a 1953 danced all the way to the auction house. To be fair It was quite telling really as the same person is the one always asking for help to do something. 

[CazLikesCoins]

2 minutes ago, Agaupl said:

Definitely not saying it doesn’t happen. 100% it does.
 But it’s a really common scam also. I’m distrustful so would probably say the ultra rare coin was fake and report then to Binlord of the week even if it wasn’t.

I live in a city where the town centre is chocka block scammers. My current favourite is the violin players busking on a violin linked to a small portable speaker. When they take a break and put the violin down the music keeps playing. 😆 

I've also been offered enough gold coloured brass to re-sink the Titanic. Best to keep your hands balled up into fists or you'll find yourself with more rings on your fingers than Liberace while you're queuing up at McDonalds.

I did almost donate to the stop carrying a knife campaign until I found out most of the lads running it had been done for knife possession.  

[ZRPMs]

37 minutes ago, Agaupl said:

Not a rare coin but I heard of an old lady widow given 25% of spot for a 1oz gold coin of her late husbands. Everyone make sure your family knows the value of your collection!  Worst part was she was really happy about the price 😭

I've heard of similar not nice. Apart from the fact you should keep good records to help clarify any tax position. I have tried to make sure that those that would have access to them when I'm gone actually know what they are worth and also the best place to go to liquidate them should they need to. 

[paulmerton]

Just now, ZRPMs said:

I've heard of similar not nice. Apart from the fact you should keep good records to help clarify any tax position. I have tried to make sure that those that would have access to them when I'm gone actually know what they are worth and also the best place to go to liquidate them should they need to. 

Bare records like invoices and receipts are probably why some people are more than happy to sell their relative's gold far below spot, as it likely cost far less than the current spot price in the first place.

[Agaupl]

11 minutes ago, CazLikesCoins said:

I live in a city where the town centre is chocka block scammers. My current favourite is the violin players busking on a violin linked to a small portable speaker. When they take a break and put the violin down the music keeps playing. 😆 

I've also been offered enough gold coloured brass to re-sink the Titanic. Best to keep your hands balled up into fists or you'll find yourself with more rings on your fingers than Liberace while you're queuing up at McDonalds.

I did almost donate to the stop carrying a knife campaign until I found out most of the lads running it had been done for knife possession.  

Yeah I hate Liverpool. 

[CazLikesCoins]

2 minutes ago, ZRPMs said:

... when I'm gone actually know what they are worth and also the best place to go to liquidate them should they need to. 

You could always go for a 'Lock, Stock & Two Barrels' ending and enclose a copy of Spinks with your will. 

[Agaupl]

3 minutes ago, paulmerton said:

Bare records like invoices and receipts are probably why some people are more than happy to sell their relative's gold far below spot, as it likely cost far less than the current spot price in the first place.

An understanding of spot price and the difference between silver and platinum are nos1&2 to pass on. 3 is proof vs bullion 🤣

Edited December 13, 2023 by Agaupl

[CazLikesCoins]

1 minute ago, Agaupl said:

Yeah I hate Liverpool. 

Most cities these days. We had a fella selling Rolex recently. All boxed up in gift bags for Christmas. Plod seemed really keen because they had the lot off him and they must have been really pleased with the items because they even gave the chap a lift home in the back of their van. 😆

[ZRPMs]

Just now, paulmerton said:

Bare records like invoices and receipts are probably why some people are more than happy to sell their relative's gold far below spot, as it likely cost far less than the current spot price in the first place.

Exactly, You need to inform the person most likely to have access that whilst the ledger or records might be a true record of the purchase. The sale of them is totally different. You need to explain the concept of premium on top of spot price and any numismatic value. It a mine field really. It helps if you can encourage an interest in the collection in the next generation. 

[Agaupl]

Just now, ZRPMs said:

Exactly, You need to inform the person most likely to have access that whilst the ledger or records might be a true record of the purchase. The sale of them is totally different. You need to explain the concept of premium on top of spot price and any numismatic value. It a mine field really. It helps if you can encourage an interest in the collection in the next generation. 

I for one would also be livid if the revenue didn’t get their cut as prescribed by the law .. hence why I keep a full and accurate record of all transactions. Your honour. Especially needed with that CGT squeeze  

[James32]

22 minutes ago, ZRPMs said:

As people might have guessed there is an element of reality to the question. I had been asked about buying 2 sovereigns. The guy said they were his late fathers given to him by his mother. Both parents have now gone to the retirement home in the sky. He said he thought they were specials (think he meant proof) had he was told they cost a lot at the time (classic). I asked if he knew what years they were. 1911 and 1953. He said he was sure. Ok I agreed to meet up with him and look over the coins. At the meeting the chap was nice and tried to tell me they were specials and most likely worth thousands as they were expensive when his father had bought them. Upon looking at them at a glace with the naked eye I could see that they weren't proof but the one he thought was 1953 was and is a nice coin. So I told him what I thought the price of run of the mill sovereigns are worth and after a bit of back and to he agreed, However, I said, If this is a 1953 it's technically a pattern as none were issued for the general population. So I told him that the last time the only one known in private hands was sold it went for about £320,000 in 2014. It's not known if there are more but if this is a genuine 1953 It's worth a bit more than I have on me today. The guy was on fire. He could not contain the excitement. I got my glass out and instantly I read 1958. His face was a picture. Needless to say I did my other checks and offered him the going rate. He accepted and deal was done. Everyone happy.

I asked some of the family and was stunned at some of the replies really. From the 5 of us there only myself and one other went for option D, with one calling me an idiot I should have just taken the chance with out looking too much and bagged it for bullion. Then if it was a 1953 danced all the way to the auction house. To be fair It was quite telling really as the same person is the one always asking for help to do something. 

So between us..it was a 1953 though, right?

[CazLikesCoins]

19 minutes ago, ZRPMs said:

I asked some of the family and was stunned at some of the replies really. From the 5 of us there only myself and one other went for option D, with one calling me an idiot I should have just taken the chance with out looking too much and bagged it for bullion. 

I'd rather have a clear conscience. When they'll all withered and droopy and it's snuffing time I bet they'd rather have no naughty marks than a bit of extra gold. You can wave at them from up above 😆

[Orpster]

23 minutes ago, ZRPMs said:

As people might have guessed there is an element of reality to the question. I had been asked about buying 2 sovereigns. The guy said they were his late fathers given to him by his mother. Both parents have now gone to the retirement home in the sky. He said he thought they were specials (think he meant proof) had he was told they cost a lot at the time (classic). I asked if he knew what years they were. 1911 and 1953. He said he was sure. Ok I agreed to meet up with him and look over the coins. At the meeting the chap was nice and tried to tell me they were specials and most likely worth thousands as they were expensive when his father had bought them. Upon looking at them at a glace with the naked eye I could see that they weren't proof but the one he thought was 1953 was and is a nice coin. So I told him what I thought the price of run of the mill sovereigns are worth and after a bit of back and to he agreed, However, I said, If this is a 1953 it's technically a pattern as none were issued for the general population. So I told him that the last time the only one known in private hands was sold it went for about £320,000 in 2014. It's not known if there are more but if this is a genuine 1953 It's worth a bit more than I have on me today. The guy was on fire. He could not contain the excitement. I got my glass out and instantly I read 1958. His face was a picture. Needless to say I did my other checks and offered him the going rate. He accepted and deal was done. Everyone happy.

I asked some of the family and was stunned at some of the replies really. From the 5 of us there only myself and one other went for option D, with one calling me an idiot I should have just taken the chance with out looking too much and bagged it for bullion. Then if it was a 1953 danced all the way to the auction house. To be fair It was quite telling really as the same person is the one always asking for help to do something. 

Do you have a picture, there were some specimen strike versions of the 1958 that are super rare and very very valuable