This was a bit out of the ordinary

[paulmerton]

8 minutes ago, SemolinaPilchard said:

Yes.  You're right to be sceptical .... we've never seen one (recent years) either!

What would you give for it?

I'd pay double spot for it. The new picture is much more useful than the ones with co-axial lighting as it's more obvious that the details are incuse. 

[StackemHigh]

I'm sceptical of this being a genuine error. More likely a case of the rm generating free publicity and a buzz over finding one!

This and the quarter turn brits seems like a marketing tool used to draw in the avid collectors amongst us. 

200 years ago I could imagine this could be quite common but not by todays standards.

[SemolinaPilchard]

10 minutes ago, StackemHigh said:

I'm sceptical of this being a genuine error. More likely a case of the rm generating free publicity and a buzz over finding one!

This and the quarter turn brits seems like a marketing tool used to draw in the avid collectors amongst us. 

200 years ago I could imagine this could be quite common but not by todays standards.

Yes - possibly.  Because it's so perfect I think it just slipped passed their QC.  But you might be right!

[SemolinaPilchard]

[goldhunter]

47 minutes ago, SemolinaPilchard said:

Yes.  You're right to be sceptical .... we've never seen one (recent years) either!

What would you give for it?

Its great how about £1000?

 

[Orpster]

Just now, goldhunter said:

Its great how about £1000?

 

If it came with a letter of authenticity from Chards I don't think £1k unreasonable at all, would certainly make a great auction on here 

[paulmerton]

Can I cash in some of my several Lawrence-issued beer tokens and other reports of website issues to secure this error coin at a great price? 😀

1 minute ago, Orpster said:

If it came with a letter of authenticity from Chards I don't think £1k unreasonable at all, would certainly make a great auction on here 

I don't think it even needs a letter of authenticity - this type of error speaks for itself.

[paulmerton]

More to the point, has anyone got the other coin? I bet that looks interesting too. It can't be more than a few tubes away in the same box 🤣

[SemolinaPilchard]

1 minute ago, paulmerton said:

More to the point, has anyone got the other coin? I bet that looks interesting too. It can't be more than a few tubes away in the same box 🤣

Rest assured we did search for it?

[dicker]

47 minutes ago, StackemHigh said:

I'm sceptical of this being a genuine error. More likely a case of the rm generating free publicity and a buzz over finding one!

This and the quarter turn brits seems like a marketing tool used to draw in the avid collectors amongst us. 

200 years ago I could imagine this could be quite common but not by todays standards.

I have no doubt this is a genuine error.  

[dicker]

I have seen more Victoria Shield Brockage errors on halves than Sovs. This is from Heritage Auctions. Nice example.  
 

 

[dicker]

And another…

[n1k0s]

1 hour ago, SemolinaPilchard said:

Yes.  You're right to be sceptical .... we've never seen one (recent years) either!

What would you give for it?

I am thinking: on one hand it will be hard to sell them because the buyer will be highly sceptical (and rightfully so). 

On the other hand it is such a rare coin that i would love to boast that I am the owner. 

If it was priced reasonably, within some 5-10% of spot premium, yes for sure i would buy.

[GoodAsGold]

3 hours ago, SemolinaPilchard said:

It was part of incoming stock at Chards @ChardsCoinandBullionDealer.  Miranda spotted it when she was checking through the numerous tubes.  

What a great spot. Are all of the staff so eagle-eyed? I bet Miranda has never lost a needle in her haystack then. 

[Coverte]

4 minutes ago, GoodAsGold said:

What a great spot. Are all of the staff so eagle-eyed? I bet Miranda has never lost a needle in her haystack then. 

Without doubt IMO, given their non current issue sovs, their selection/s of anything remotely old have outrageous premiums in most cases.

[dicker]

This is a genuine rarity.  I don’t know about pricing but I would guess 5k would be the starting point at auction.  

[Stuntman]

It's a really good example of a full brockage error and I'm sure that it would hold a great deal of appeal to specialist sovereign collectors.

Not the kind of thing that I collect personally, but definitely a coin to appreciate.  I have no idea of what it might go for, but @dicker may well be in the right ballpark.  If someone really wants one, it's going to be a question of 'find me another'.

[Coverte]

26 minutes ago, dicker said:

This is a genuine rarity.  I don’t know about pricing but I would guess 5k would be the starting point at auction.  

I wonder if Chards will need @BackyardBullion to sell it for them like those silver Brits ........... 

[SemolinaPilchard]

Kieran bought it up to the photo studio for me to photograph and didn't say anything apart from "can you find time for this one"

He handed it me proper reverse side up.

I was a bit puzzled as I thought we had enough 2023 sovereign bullion shots - when I turned it over I must admit to swearing....very slowly

[Skyfiller]

I cannot see any way a modern press can accidentally produce this. It would have to mint a coin, then flip it over and mint that side against a new blank. Even if this happened it would be gold against gold and there would be nowhere near the definition shown?

[daca]

24 minutes ago, Skyfiller said:

I cannot see any way a modern press can accidentally produce this. It would have to mint a coin, then flip it over and mint that side against a new blank. Even if this happened it would be gold against gold and there would be nowhere near the definition shown?

1st coin isnt ejected from the machine and the second one is struck betwn the 1st coin that has the dragon and the die above with the same design. this is why the error side is incuse 

[ZRPMs]

4 minutes ago, Skyfiller said:

I cannot see any way a modern press can accidentally produce this. It would have to mint a coin, then flip it over and mint that side against a new blank. Even if this happened it would be gold against gold and there would be nowhere near the definition shown?

The un-pressed blank would be softer than the pressed coin. During the pressing of the first coin it becomes work hardened. This is in part why they are annealed after pressing. Also the newer coins have a lot less detail on them than older coins, so it's not a great amount of detail to transfer to the softer blank. As for the flipping of the first pressed coin this is possible if it catches on exiting the press recess as the machine tries to eject the coin. It is such an un-likely event but it is possible. Hence the excitement when such a rare occurrence produces a rare coin as this. These brockage coins are very sought after by error coin experts and collectors.

[xthomasx]

Somehow, being a true namesake of the Biblical person, I am not convinced.  Of course, I'd need to see the coin with my own eyes, but I am suspicious. 

If, in fact, a minted coin wasn't ejected and another planchet was fed into the machine, some interesting things can happen to the two pieces. But not an sharp, flipped image. The rim would be smashed in or caved in, the flipped image would necessarily be concave (which I did not see in the photos of that coin), etc. 

Anyway, an interesting topic which I will follow closely from the mainland. 

[Stuntman]

For those who are not sure about how these brockage errors can occur, here's a link to the Heritage Auctions website, showing examples of some USA coins with this type of error:

https://blog.ha.com/brockage-coin-value-guide-how-much-is-a-brockage-error-coin-worth/

And this is quite informative about how different types of errors can be produced (Brockage errors at the end of the article):

https://learn.apmex.com/learning-guide/numismatics/beginners-guide-to-error-coins/

[dicker]

10 hours ago, Skyfiller said:

I cannot see any way a modern press can accidentally produce this. It would have to mint a coin, then flip it over and mint that side against a new blank. Even if this happened it would be gold against gold and there would be nowhere near the definition shown?

Perhaps it would be good to study similar Sovs with this error from Victoria onwards? They exist, and are a matter or public record.  

There are a lot of other example of Brockage errors, and those made by a man and a vice in a garage are vastly different from the real thing.  
 

Best

Dicker