Whats the difference between a "real collector" and a "flipper"

[GoldDiggerDave]

It's not the start of a joke, but I bet theres a few good  punch lines.  Seriously I've had conversations with "real collectors" and "flippers"  and it would be good to get a definition on each one.    "real collectors" seam to want unlimited mintages and they will never sell a coin as long as they live and if they did they would only ever sell it for RRP (Yeh right)  And "Flipper"  are unscrupulous carpet baggers who buy everything before the "real collector" get out of bed.      

Do you really want higher mintages so everyone who wants to buy one gets one or would this ultimately damage the demand?  Or would you like more exclusive low mintage coins that have the potential to have a higher secondary market value.   

For me I sit right in the middle I'm first a collector thats learned to turn over my collection to make a profit and with the profit I turn it back into coins.    

[sovereignsteve]

4 minutes ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

 "real collectors" seam to want unlimited mintages

Rubbish, serious collectors want to get hold of the really rare ones. If they say otherwise they are lying. Nothing they like better than to build up kudos by getting hold of these and bragging to their "mates".😎

[SiCole]

No-one should want unlimited mintages. Basic supply and demand tells us that.

If 100 people want a product the cleverest manufacturers produce 99 of them to keep the value up. Produce 100+ and the values decrease.

[GoldDiggerDave]

1 minute ago, SiCole said:

No-one should want unlimited mintages. Basic supply and demand tells us that.

If 100 people want a product the cleverest manufacturers produce 99 of them to keep the value up. Produce 100+ and the values decrease.

Bingo! A  simple economic fact people  will pay a premium  if it's perceived to be in high demand and low supply.  This applies to anything, designer handbags, malt whisky, cars, houses,  the list is endless.  

[SilverDrum]

Intent.

Buying to make a profit vs buying, enjoying and profiting. By this definition you are real collector Dave. Just a ruddy good one that turns a profit, and enjoys looking at lots of coins...you'd probably do it for minimum wage just to look at them 🤣

[Pete]

Collector - buys with the intention of holding for a period of time, perhaps as assets, investment or for passing to the next generation.
Someone who cherishes their purchases and perhaps looks at them from time to time.
Proud to display and show to friends & family

Flipper - buys with the intention of selling sometimes as quickly as possible or soon after to make a profit - fast buck mentality.
Doesn't necessarily care about the item, merely buying at a good price and selling at a higher price.
Never looks at the item after purchasing.

[dicker]

As with everything in life, nothing is black and white. 

I would suggest that there is also another category of coin buyer and that is…

The “Discoverer”.  Someone who buys coins in order to identify new varieties, errors and rarities.  Some buy coins speculatively perhaps seeing them in auction or have a theory about a particular date having an oddity.  

Others but in bulk, look at coins, keep the best and move the rest on. 

[Gordy]

what are you if you buy 10 of one particular coin that you collect the set/series of, and sell the other 9 to make the one you keep free?

[James32]

11 minutes ago, Gordy said:

what are you if you buy 10 of one particular coin that you collect the set/series of, and sell the other 9 to make the one you keep free?

A poor flipper?

Or formerly known as a flopper 😆 

 

[Silverlocks]

28 minutes ago, Gordy said:

what are you if you buy 10 of one particular coin that you collect the set/series of, and sell the other 9 to make the one you keep free?

I think it's not uncommon amongst the folks buying monster boxes in the dip to keep one or two tubes and flog the rest.  If you've got a spare 10 grand lying about, it's not an unreasonable thing to do, and is really a win-win for all concerned.  The vendor gets a couple of tubes of Brits at a bit of a discount and the other punters get their tubes of Brits still at a healthy discount over what they would pay from a dealer.

Getting 10% margin on a gold coin might be a bit more ambitious.  I think if you tried that with sovs you'd probably have to buy something like 25 to realise enough profit to keep one as the volume discounts are only a few peercent.  You might get lucky and flog a few at some slightly higher numismatic value - some dealers really only trade in bulk sovs, although others clearly harvest the premium ones like shields and flog them separately.

Edited November 18, 2022 by Silverlocks

[FlorinCollector]

All I know is I am in the game for the money.  

[Silverlocks]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

Collector - buys with the intention of holding for a period of time, perhaps as assets, investment or for passing to the next generation.
Someone who cherishes their purchases and perhaps looks at them from time to time.
Proud to display and show to friends & family

Flipper - buys with the intention of selling sometimes as quickly as possible or soon after to make a profit - fast buck mentality.
Doesn't necessarily care about the item, merely buying at a good price and selling at a higher price.
Never looks at the item after purchasing.

I think this also needs a third category of Stacker - someone who holds it for investment, rather than the pure joy of owning and fondling their sovereigns.

I must say I enjoy giving my sovereigns a good fondle just as much as the next fellow, but I don't really get much of a kick off rare or proof coins so much as a nice design.  I've indulged a little of the collector's instinct with a bit of nice silver, and I've certainly got a soft spot for nice sovs, but I don't think I'd bother paying a premium for a really rare one or something in a slab.

I suppose in principle I sit with a bit of a foot in the collecting camp but I could never see myself buying an expensive proof set as a long term investment.  

Edited November 18, 2022 by Silverlocks

[GoldDiggerDave]

24 minutes ago, Silverlocks said:

I think this also needs a third category of Stacker - someone who holds it for investment, rather than the pure joy of owning and fondling their sovereigns.

I must say I enjoy giving my sovereigns a good fondle just as much as the next fellow, but I don't really get much of a kick off rare or proof coins so much as a nice design.  I've indulged a little of the collector's instinct with a bit of nice silver, and I've certainly got a soft spot for nice sovs, but I don't think I'd bother paying a premium for a really rare one or something in a slab.

I suppose in principle I sit with a bit of a foot in the collecting camp but I could never see myself buying an expensive proof set as a long term investment.  

What about the collector who sells a few coins........... a Flip-tor?

[TeaTime]

I consider myself a collector BUT with the ultimate aim of selling. I think one difference between a collector and a flipper is that most collectors buy what they like whereas flippers buy what they think others will like. 

As for minting coins to match demand - Why not ? It's the soundest business decision for something as mundane as a coin.  A shortage of a fixed price product will not benefit the manufacturer, only the secondary seller.

[Roy]

Whats the difference between a "real collector" and a "flipper?"

One has a salary large enough not to worry about the price of a coin, if (s)he wants it, it's the fun of the hunt they're after.

The other is a failed second hand car dealer 😜

TBH, I used to flipping despise flippers. I get that they want to 'work' their way up to buy more expensive coins (the buy two, sell one to make yours cheaper principle) but that may mean someone else misses out on a limited mintage release @ RRP. 

Not everyone can be online @ 9am. But that's the Mint's fault, ism't it? They have created this monster.

Now, I either pre-order (at RRP or less) or just wait for Ash to list one. 

 

 

[GoldDiggerDave]

54 minutes ago, FlorinCollector said:

All I know is I am in the game for the money.  

Burn him at the stake!!!!........lol

 

[Arne]

I am a flipping nightmare I just can’t bare the thought of selling anything , I think I am a collector / stacker / hoarder in any order you like.

[Silverlocks]

41 minutes ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

What about the collector who sells a few coins........... a Flip-tor?

Is there really a dividing line - I think lots of collectors enjoy horse trading in one form or another.

[Arne]

Your on the wrong forum mate no live stock on here .L.O.L.

[Zeuk]

Its an interesting topic and imho far more emotion comes into play with investing in PMs than other vehicles, there's an element of what you like as well as what is a sound investment, what is scarce etc.  You get all these terms in the investment world like buy and hold investor, swing trader, arbitradge/hedger, scalper, day trader etc.  I think there are some similarities between traders in stocks/futures etc. and PMs for all of these apart from collectors. 

A flipper imho would probably want to work to the shortest time frame available, get the most scale in and the most bang for buck so closest to a scalper/day trader.  Someone that plays the Silver/Gold ratio is more of an arbitradge / hedger, someone that buys and sells fairly frequently to profit from price volatility is a swing trader, and an investor is the closest thing to a collector - but collector/investor isnt as good a match as the others because desirability, preference etc. has a greater influence with PMs and the different types and designs.  With investing its a means to an end not a passion in and of itself.

[Darr3nG]

2 hours ago, GoldDiggerDave said:

Burn him at the stake!!!!........lol

 

*steps into the fire... I'm in this for the money, too!

[Zeuk]

1 minute ago, Darr3nG said:

*steps into the fire... I'm in this for the money, too!

Yup same, just not for a while - also i buy stuff that i like.  A mate of mine makes a fair amount of money selling bath bombs on amazon, cant say i could be bothered to do something like that just for money

[AppleZippoandMetronome]

The reality is most of us will straddle a line somewhere down the middle of the two. Perhaps leaning more to one side than the other but in the middle none the less. Few people are at the extremes and dedicated solely to flipping or dedicated solely to collecting.

I would consider myself a collector first but I've also bought coins to flip or resell at higher prices than I paid. The reality when ones funds are not unlimited is that one needs to find a way to afford what one desires. Once one has spent years dedicating onesself to a hobby like this one will inevitably learn things that give one an advantage as a potential flipper or reseller. I don't think it unreasonable for anyone here to use what they've learned over the years in order to benefit their own collection.

I think what tends to get peoples backs up is folks who do not care about the hobby buying up new releases enmasse purely to profit from it. Sadly this is a reality that exists within any hobby out there where limited releases are a thing. These same debates come up time and again in all the communities where limited collectables are sold. The interent has made it fairly easy to identify these releases and those with the knowledge can often use technology to gain an advantage and buy up items purely for resell. I'm not sure what the answer to it is if there even is one.

As for mintages I think thats another issue entirely. The mint seems to constantly guess where to put the mintage figures and sometimes they seem to get it right, often times they seem to get it wrong. Mintage is only one part of what you need to add value to a coin though. Value doesn't go anywhere without demand and demand will never be the same for every release. It surprised me when I saw the higher mintage figures for the memorial Sovereigns because it seemed obvious to me that this would be a much more niche release than that of a normal proof sov so would be less in demand. My opinion of course but I honestly expected demand for it to be similar to what demand for a SOTD sov gets since it kind of falls into that same category. It will be interesting to see how it does long term because its such and odd item in what is quite a firm, rigid long standing collection.

[Shinus73]

3 hours ago, TeaTime said:

I think one difference between a collector and a flipper is that most collectors buy what they like whereas flippers buy what they think others will like. 

I do both of these things. If you’re ultimate aim is to maximise your returns, regardless of timescale, it’s clearly the way to go.

[sovereignsteve]

There will be many collectors, on here for sure, who do a spot of flipping to help finance their bloody expensive hobby.

Why shouldn't the knowledge you build up, or should build up in order to be a good collector, be put to good use to increase the value of your collection/stack?