dicker

Hi All

I have been collecting Morgan Dollars for a considerable time.  Buying in and from the US as well as in the U.K.

Vast numbers of Morgan’s were minted so there is a very good supply.  I heard from another collector that a lot came into the U.K. with US servicemen serving in the Tri-Bases in East Anglia.  Apparently there was a good market bringing them in and selling in the U.K where there was relative scarcity at the time.

Personally I only buy ones in MS condition - but don’t buy graded.  I have never nor will never clean a coin.

My general observation is that a significant proportion have been cleaned. It’s hard to put a figure on it but perhaps 10 to 20 percent.  The types of cleaning / interference is from what I have seen:

Dipping - in E-Zest or similar to remove tarnish.  Whilst it can be hard to identify, if a coin has been dipped for too long or repeatedly when rotated (so you can see a cartwheel) it appears duller than a non dipped coin.  Some dipped coins are done so badly that fluid residue is left around the letters, numerals and stars. Nothing more than a loupe is needed to examine.

Heat Treatment - A dull Morgan can be revitalised with a blowtorch - yes really.  I have read about and seen videos of this being done.  I don’t know how to identify if this has been done, but generally it wouldn’t be done to an MS grade coin from what I know.

Polishing - Some Morgan’s have been polished.  Clearly identifiable - no cartwheel, and just looks shiny on all surfaces.  Also known as whizzing in the US.

Polish and Re-Frost   DMPL Morgan’s sell at a premium.  To achieve this, a coin is polished, then a substance (hairspray, laquer etc) re-applied to the non field areas.  This results in a coin essentially looking like it is DMPL in good condition. If you have similar Morgan’s you will see differences and it is obvious that it has been tampered with.  High magnification of the fields is very useful to identify polishing where marking can be seen that is not on a genuine DMPL Morgan.  It’s worth noting that a dealer I have purchased from in the US has seen a couple graded Morgan’s surfaces deteriorate over time as laquer / substance applied degrades.  If they get past grading companies it would get past me - so be very wary!

Artificial Toning - Genuine rainbow toning is highly prized by some collectors. This does occur naturally over decades in particular conditions, but a number of people artificially tone coins with sulphur, humidity and heat and probably other methods.  Grading companies do do a good job of identifying artificially Morgan’s.  Generally you will see a really soft and gentle transition from on colour to another in genuine coins as well as the tones being more gentle. Artificially toned Morgan’s tend to be rather technicolour.

Edge knock repair.  This probably happens on other coins, but if a high grade Morgan has an EK some people try and repair.  It’s pretty obvious and often pretty badly done! Equally I have seen a coin that had damaged reeds re- filed!  

Applying mint marks - the addition of a Mintmark onto specifically dated coins can radically boost its value.  Nefarious people create and glue mint marks onto Morgan’s.  This tends to be at the higher end of the coin values, and can sometimes be identified under significant magnification 20x to 50x.   Personally I have not seen one, but have seen a video of a dealer using acetone to remove the mint mark!

My advice to anyone new to buying Morgan’s in MS grade is to get one really good Morgan Dollar that you know is unmolested.  I can also recommend Q David Bowers guide to Morgan Dollars.

If you are ever unsure of a coin, I encourage anyone to post clear photos on TSF for people to take a look at.

Best

Dicker

12 hours ago, shawy2510 said:

Finally got a result for this & is infact an error. 

 

That’s a good lamination example.   I have seen similar on another Jubilee head - but not a shield.

On 03/06/2024 at 21:29, Thelonerangershorse said:

Agreed, I've been here 7 years and I think I've only seen this happen twice before.

The most scary experience I've had was a member sent me £1500 then ghosted me for a fortnight before sending me their postal address.😦

That’s v funny.  

Always good when people ask if their coins are genuine.  Shows that they care.  

This is absolutely genuine.  Nice coin.  
 

All the best to you

Dicker

8 hours ago, Roy said:

Interesting. 

No Switzerland or Singapore?

I'm going to guess your choices are based on places you frequent often.

Yes - and places where you can sell gold for cash easily.  

On 20/05/2024 at 22:06, Wampum said:

Looks like an ex-mount. £200 pure bargain😁😁.  

It doesn’t look all that gold!

100k’s worth of Gillicks.  
 

50pct stored in the UK

25pct in the US

25pct in Australia

I have never cleaned a coin.  I think I might make an exception if I won this lot. 
 

Boil in Dettol…

@Roy I would think so.  Peer to peer may become significantly more popular if people were willing to say sell at 10 or 15 pct over spot.

I suspect smuggling might become a problem for the government but I am not sure that this will be thought about in any detail.

Following on from other threads about the impact of a new government in the UK, I see some stories coming out around potential rises in VAT.

Silver already is subject to VAT as we all very well know.

I could quite see a Labour government removing CGT free status on gold coins and at the same time adding VAT on gold sales.  

I would be interested in opinions on what might happen to the real world price of gold (when bought peer to peer) in the U.K. if 20% VAT slapped on sales.

Thoughts?

Best

Dicker

You will need to post clear photos of any hallmarks.  Normally found in the base of each of the items.  
 

Best

Dicker

CGT gold is only CGT free until the government decides otherwise.

Personally, just keep on buying.  

My advice to you would be to spread your risk.  

Are photos required before, after or with a bid?

Best

Dicker

Labour has a spending pledge. 

Therefore it will go for higher taxes - the usual left wing approach, tax those who bother to work to pay for those who do not. It’s a simplification but largely true.

This may well include the abolition of CGT free sale of gold.  They may well also introduce VAT on gold.

Left wing governments would rather have you dependent on the state, rather than yourself, therefore try as far as possible to remove your wealth.

Naturally, this lasts a term or two until the populous gets pissed off and elects another government.

Best

Dicker

You have a well enjoyed Sovereign ring that had lived a life. 

It’s scrap. 

If you look carefully you can see the “orange peel” effect where the gold has flowed under the pressure of the die.  

There are a couple of things that look a little questionable (but only a bit) - such as the tail, which seems to have a flaw.

But thinks this need an XRF to be sure that it’s genuine.   

You will significantly boost your chance of selling by adding pics. 
 

Best

Dicker

I have a friend who deals in seriously high end art.  He goes to car boots at weekends - that in itself tells you all you need to know.

2 minutes ago, flyingveepixie said:

I can't help thinking it will go up or down.  It might even get to £400

Welcome back Wonger

58 minutes ago, bobski said:

So, did he do it to try and adopt the euro? Or to line the pockets of his mates?

Brown would have loved to join the Euro.  Ideology over pragmatism

Brown was a terrible chancellor and worse PM….

”End of boom and bust” totally oblivious to the vast problems his borrowing was building up

”I saved the world” after applying a sticking plaster to a financial system under severe strain caused by his policies

Hammering those who saved for a pension

And as chancellor, his avarice for power as PM which ended in a very messy premiership

The list goes on and on.