sjhdesmond

Yeah saw the TV ads for it, looks a decent offering. Buy your 1oz gold coins with it and shave the premium down a bit 

Superb and simple explanation.  So it's all just a big gamble really.   I kind of understand how it works now but it raises the next set of big questions which are
1. how they are so consistently lucky on an apparent gamble?
2. do they have some kind of insider information that none of us little folk have?
3. How can they actually DRIVE the price down by doing this shorting thing, because that's what they seem to do and consistently get away with...?
Apologies for all the dumb questions...

The paper markets for metals allow miners to sell their silver today, and then supply it in a couple of months time.  So the miners in a way can be considered as shorting the market.  They are sellers.  But they don't really care what the price does after they've sold their contract to supply, because they've committed to honour the contract at that price and deliver the Silver after they've got it out the ground.
The complication comes in where other investors are allowed to trade those contracts between the miners and the consumers.  Because these are paper contracts, other investors can buy and sell those paper contracts without having to handle the dirty metal stuff at all.  That all sounds well and good if it was just like that, but it's not.  What is allowed, is for large investors to sell contracts effectively as if they were miners and going to supply, and then to close the contracts out by buying other contracts back before they have to make the delivery. The contracts come into existence and go out of existence without any of that promised future Silver ever leaving the ground.
This could obviously get a bit crazy, so its supposedly kept in check by backing the made up paper contracts against a bunch of real ounces sat in a vault in the COMEX (the exchange who make the paper contracts), just in case any of the buyers of the made up paper contracts, actually want the dirty metal.   Even that sounds sort of okay in principle, but like everything in the financial world, the further you get away from the basic deal of two people bartering a commodity amongst themselves (capitalism rather than financialism), the shadier things get.
The amount of real Silver sat in that vault backing the temporary paper you would imagine should be about 1 : 1 ratio.  But it's not.  It like bank loan leverage, and it has been allowed to climb to very high multiples.  The excuse is that no one want's the real stuff so there won't ever be a bunch of claims on it all at once.  I seem to remember reading somewhere that there were around 400 potential claims for every real ounce sat in that vault.  Not exactly a stable position.  This is the reason for the monkeying around near the end of a delivery month.  Sometimes, more paper contracts are blasted into existence to try to push the price around before the close.  If you can print up imaginary metal in vast amounts, you can force the paper price of that metal down, making a fortune.  It also fleeces the miners, who often end up having to sell at low prices in the subdued paper market, while the financial industry "wizards" in nice offices make bank with ones and zeros.
The system is creaking and groaning under the weight of the parasites.  It's unclear how much longer this imaginary future product market can continue.  The leverage is what makes it a joke.  It's unfixable, and it needs to be swept away.  But that isn't going to happen until the entire system melts down for real.  And Central bankers will bet all of our lives away before they roll over and accept that.

I can try to explain it with gold as the example.
 
Let's say I'm super confident that the price of gold is going to go way down. How can I make money from that?
"Hey Flying Vee Pixie, lend me that 1oz gold bar of yours, I'll give it back to you in a month"
So you give me your bar. I immediately sell it on the silver forum for £1500. 
One month later, the price of gold is down at £1300, so the day I'm supposed to give you it back, I buy another 1oz gold bar from Lawrence Chard or someone at that day's price of £1300. 
I give you 1oz of gold back as agreed. And I keep the £200 profit.
 
That's an oversimplified explanation of shorting. As others have said there are borrowing fees, and imaginary shares etc. But that is the principle of how someone makes money from the price going down.

I can try to explain it with gold as the example.
 
Let's say I'm super confident that the price of gold is going to go way down. How can I make money from that?
"Hey Flying Vee Pixie, lend me that 1oz gold bar of yours, I'll give it back to you in a month"
So you give me your bar. I immediately sell it on the silver forum for £1500. 
One month later, the price of gold is down at £1300, so the day I'm supposed to give you it back, I buy another 1oz gold bar from Lawrence Chard or someone at that day's price of £1300. 
I give you 1oz of gold back as agreed. And I keep the £200 profit.
 
That's an oversimplified explanation of shorting. As others have said there are borrowing fees, and imaginary shares etc. But that is the principle of how someone makes money from the price going down.

I can try to explain it with gold as the example.
 
Let's say I'm super confident that the price of gold is going to go way down. How can I make money from that?
"Hey Flying Vee Pixie, lend me that 1oz gold bar of yours, I'll give it back to you in a month"
So you give me your bar. I immediately sell it on the silver forum for £1500. 
One month later, the price of gold is down at £1300, so the day I'm supposed to give you it back, I buy another 1oz gold bar from Lawrence Chard or someone at that day's price of £1300. 
I give you 1oz of gold back as agreed. And I keep the £200 profit.
 
That's an oversimplified explanation of shorting. As others have said there are borrowing fees, and imaginary shares etc. But that is the principle of how someone makes money from the price going down.

Mine arrived today. Beautiful coin. Not much I can add to what's already been said. Thanks to BYB and to all the pourers, donors, and everyone who took part. Horrible circumstances but there is no shortage of good causes in this world and I hope the success of this initiative will inspire a similar future fundraiser for those in need.

Mine arrived today. Beautiful coin. Not much I can add to what's already been said. Thanks to BYB and to all the pourers, donors, and everyone who took part. Horrible circumstances but there is no shortage of good causes in this world and I hope the success of this initiative will inspire a similar future fundraiser for those in need.

Mine arrived today. Beautiful coin. Not much I can add to what's already been said. Thanks to BYB and to all the pourers, donors, and everyone who took part. Horrible circumstances but there is no shortage of good causes in this world and I hope the success of this initiative will inspire a similar future fundraiser for those in need.

Mine arrived today. Beautiful coin. Not much I can add to what's already been said. Thanks to BYB and to all the pourers, donors, and everyone who took part. Horrible circumstances but there is no shortage of good causes in this world and I hope the success of this initiative will inspire a similar future fundraiser for those in need.

You should start your own forum, you know, for clever folk like yourself.
Why waste time with us fools?

@LemmyMcGregor Here's a thought for you don't over think things. Just buy what you like.

I like the saying 'Never put your eggs in one basket' so I'm collecting silver in low denominations as well as gold.
I might be able to trade in silver for wares and services one day if the banking system collapses as pointed out in other posts. And I'm not giving a gold sovereign for a tin of beans and sausage  
You never know how things will turn out these days what with Putin carrying around his nuclear briefcase wherever he goes.

It also kills werewolves and cybermen. But your list is better! 

I believe this is a specific factor many consider when going through the weighting decision of gold versus silver stacking and a big enough factor to fly in the face of your data driven pro-silver argument.  The ROI on silver may be three times that of gold and, at that point, you sell in order to increase your gold ownership.  I believe very few disagree with the "Gold if for Kings", but silver is to tool that may afford you the opportunity to own more gold than a limited budget may otherwise allow.

I am kind of the opposite, I dossed around during my 20s (and most of my 30s) and have to now pay the price of not being willing to accept a long standing self employed "business" never really was that. I'm nearly 39 and I'm just staring. Better late than never though. 
 
I think its tight but doable, Whisky is my luxury I guess, I cant drink often any more but I have enough supply and variety of quality aged single malt to last me for many many years - as in at least over 25 years supply  
Clothes is low I guess, but most of my time is spent in work uniform that is provided free - so my non work cloths get very little use and I am not fussed about fashion or trends. Shoes is my biggest cost as I wear through tread quickly - So probably do need to up this. 
 
Buildings insurance is in service charge for some things, but i also need home insurance for burst pipes ect - when i did a quote it was cheap so didnt include it - but it is a cost. 
I work for the Royal mail, and being a unionised company I feel I am protected better than most - our union is the CWU and they are currently doing BT pay rise and have flat out rejected a £1500 year increase for them - stating a 10% increase is needed before industrial action is taken - the royal mail should be the same, they have just had a bumper year and payed out shareholder a ton in dividends - I Believe they will want the same for us. 
For fun we just go for walks in nice weather really, get some sun! but I also have a top spec gaming pc that will be good for years and a nice tv and entertainment system all paid upfront, plus a sizable physical media collection. So I feel im ok for entertainment, luckily we dont go out much and when we do its cheap. 
Cheers for the imput and thoughts, there sure is a lot to think about! 
 

Somebody had to do it......

I love the beavers..lol.

Great raffle well organised congrats to winners and a good cause, I only recently joined the forms but seems like a great community. 

A few thank yous to round out this charity raffle
And so comes to an end our greatest ever charity raffle here on The Silver Forum.
Nearly £1,200 worth of silver was donated to create the prizes...
Time, energy & effort from so many people to make this happen...
£3,300 has been raised by all of us as a community and that will make a huge difference to people who are in dire need. 
I am humbled. 
I want to personally thank each silver pouring creator that was involved in this project. @RiverbankSilver gets first mention for this was his idea! I'm just the guy that had a bit of spare time to organise it. @SilverAngel @StBeesSilver @tynesidesilverbullion @AtomicSilver @LiquidMetalsUK thank you all so very much for your time and effort in all of these bars. THEY ARE AMAZING and unique products that will hold a special place in peoples stacks I have no doubt. 
A big thank you to The Silver Forum for hosting this giveaway.
The organisation of these things is no easy feat and I 100% could not have done this without the forum as a platform to host, communicate and promote this event. 
Thank you to everyone for all the donations whether it was one ticket or 100 tickets, every single penny counts. 
Lastly, a big thank you to those select few members that I used to vent frustrations on in the early stages of this raffle - you know who you are and you are invaluable. Thank you. 
Onwards and upwards I guess. 
We got to shoot for £4,000 in the next raffle!
Right, sofa and a beer...Let's Go!

@daz @silversurf @Mtaybar @AgD @ArgentSmith @Furnace @sjhdesmond @Beasty666 @CANV 

I never win raffles.  and I normally dont care about the prize if its a charity do.  but I really want to win one of these bars !!!!!!   

It is quite normal in my opinion. I have a sealed 30 pieces 2011 panda coins, they are never out of the capsules but still toning on the edge. You could see them from this link.  But I always tell the buyers about the toning.