How will silver help against CBDC’s

[Organics]

Hi All 👋

It’s a bit of a long one. So apologies in advance 🤦‍♂️.

I’ve been stacking for a little over two years now (basically since “this” all started). The other day I was talking to friend of mine (who’s heavily into crypto) and he asked me why I do it. I explained that I don’t do it as an “investment” or to “get rich quick”. I stack for several reasons. Savings, hedge against inflation, wealth preservation, staying out of the system and a protection against a financial meltdown. However I also added that I like the fact that there’s no third party liability (if you don’t hold it, you don’t own it, as the saying goes) and if (as is happening to many around the world right now for no apparent reason) my bank decides to press a button and freeze my account, I still have a way to feed my family. Sell some bullion to get cash and buy food, pay bills, etc. He understood this and thought it all made sense.
However he asked me a question that I couldn’t answer and one that I’m putting out there for some responses. He asked me what I would do when CBDC’s are introduced and cash is taken out of society. He acknowledges that I’ll still have the bullion to sell, but if cash doesn’t exist and banks are controlling what people can spend or not spend their money on (or even freezing accounts if you’re “not following the rules”), how will having bullion help? I can still sell my bullion but the money would go into a bank account that’s highly controlled and I’m back in the system. Now I did say that I’d use my silver as a form of bartering to pay for goods or services, but that’s going to take time and in a relatively poor western country like Portugal, I don’t think it’s going to be easy. If I was in the U.K, USA, or one of the other more affluent European countries, I think the barter system would be a possibility. I said I’d come back to him once I had a chance to think 🤔. 
 

Would love to hear some opinions. 
 

🙏🙏🙏
 

 

[goldsilverdash]

Very interesting topic! 

Why do you think that barter would be easier in more affluent countries? I would think that barter would spring up wherever there is a need for it.

I stack for the same reasons as you, and I'm also into crypto like your friend. If bartering with your precious metals won't work, you could sell it for a decentralized cryptocurrency like Dash, NOT a CBDC.

Tell your friend that, and he or she might become interested in stacking precious metals in addition to cryptocurrency.

Edited March 23, 2022 by goldsilverdash

[SilverJacks]

Is there a better option? If you're locked out of the financial system, maybe you could be locked out of the internet, in which case you would only have physical goods to trade with. Perhaps owning things of more practical value - bike parts comes to mind. Bikes may become more popular in future. Supply chain issues were very bad for bikes at the height of the pandemic and the price of everything went up (new and second hand). Good thing about bike parts/components is they adhere to an industry standard and a largely interchangeable between manufacturers. 

Went off on a tangent there. Clothes, long life food, whatever is of practical use 🤷‍♂️. Monetarily speaking, I don't see anything better that physical PM...

[LawrenceChard]

5 minutes ago, goldsilverdash said:

Very interesting topic! 

Why do you think that barter would be easier in more affluent countries? I would think that barter would spring up wherever there is a need for it.

I stack for the same reasons as you, and I'm also into crypto like your friend. If bartering with your precious metals won't work, you could sell it for a decentralized cryptocurrency like Dash, NOT a CBDC.

Tell your friend that, and he or she might become interested in stacking precious metals in addition to cryptocurrency.

Yet another FLA , WTF is a CBDC?

 

[goldsilverdash]

Just now, LawrenceChard said:

Yet another FLA , WTF is a CBDC?

 

Central Bank Digital Currency

[LawrenceChard]

10 minutes ago, goldsilverdash said:

Central Bank Digital Currency

Thanks.

I did find out, but I had to Google it.

Did you check what FLA and WTF stood for?

[goldsilverdash]

19 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Thanks.

I did find out, but I had to Google it.

Did you check what FLA and WTF stood for?

Ah, Four Letter Acronym

Edited March 23, 2022 by goldsilverdash

[Bigmarc]

1 hour ago, Organics said:

Hi All 👋

It’s a bit of a long one. So apologies in advance 🤦‍♂️.

I’ve been stacking for a little over two years now (basically since “this” all started). The other day I was talking to friend of mine (who’s heavily into crypto) and he asked me why I do it. I explained that I don’t do it as an “investment” or to “get rich quick”. I stack for several reasons. Savings, hedge against inflation, wealth preservation, staying out of the system and a protection against a financial meltdown. However I also added that I like the fact that there’s no third party liability (if you don’t hold it, you don’t own it, as the saying goes) and if (as is happening to many around the world right now for no apparent reason) my bank decides to press a button and freeze my account, I still have a way to feed my family. Sell some bullion to get cash and buy food, pay bills, etc. He understood this and thought it all made sense.
However he asked me a question that I couldn’t answer and one that I’m putting out there for some responses. He asked me what I would do when CBDC’s are introduced and cash is taken out of society. He acknowledges that I’ll still have the bullion to sell, but if cash doesn’t exist and banks are controlling what people can spend or not spend their money on (or even freezing accounts if you’re “not following the rules”), how will having bullion help? I can still sell my bullion but the money would go into a bank account that’s highly controlled and I’m back in the system. Now I did say that I’d use my silver as a form of bartering to pay for goods or services, but that’s going to take time and in a relatively poor western country like Portugal, I don’t think it’s going to be easy. If I was in the U.K, USA, or one of the other more affluent European countries, I think the barter system would be a possibility. I said I’d come back to him once I had a chance to think 🤔. 
 

Would love to hear some opinions. 
 

🙏🙏🙏
 

 

Hi and welcome to the forum. 

I do find it difficult to get my head around as nobody really knows what a cbdc is really going to look like. Personally I feel it's the bank accounts that are a problem not what currency that's in it as we have recently seen in Canada. All of our money is paid to us in digital form and we probably pay out 99% in digital so I don't feel there will be much of a change on that front as most of the general public won't notice any difference. 

When visiting Lisbon a few years back I couldn't help but notice the relaxed attitude towards the sale of marijuana on the streets and even in some shops. I would probably keep a eye on that industry and see which direction it's heading. But there is still the problem of bank accounts, crypto exchanges and anything else where you need kyc to participate, I just can't see how it would be possible to operate outside the system. 

[goldsilverdash]

Yes, the real question, as I understand it, is not about CBDCs as such, but rather about how to exchange gold and silver bullion for goods and services without re-entering the rotten banking system and leaving a fat digital footprint.

If physical cash is eliminated, the only answers seem to be barter and cryptocurrency.

[Arganto]

If the central banks get their way and successfully implement their own fully digital currency (as has been said above they're most of the way there) I imagine they will do everything they can to make alternative digital currencies illegal. What success they will have will depend on how authoritarian they feel emboldened to go I guess.

[SidS]

The beauty of gold (and silver in a more limited way) is that it is portable.

Digital currencies require internet/computers etc. Bank accounts can be seized or frozen, not to mentioned be tracked and spied upon.

Gold and silver transcend boundaries and are recognised across cultures. Consider a situation like Ukraine, having to flee with what you can carry. National currencies are only of value really in the country they are issued in (except for reserve currencies perhaps). What happens if that country ceases to exist or is under international sanctions? A ounce of gold has value across all countries of the world. If you have to flee tyranny and you can take the gold with you, it can be bartered in any country on Earth.

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, goldsilverdash said:

Ah, Four Letter Acronym

Close enough!

😎

[LawrenceChard]

1 hour ago, goldsilverdash said:

Central Bank Digital Currency

 

1 hour ago, LawrenceChard said:

Thanks.

I did find out, but I had to Google it.

Did you check what FLA and WTF stood for?

(Yet another FLA , WTF is a CBDC?)

At first, I was thinking about CBGB.

[Organics]

2 hours ago, goldsilverdash said:

Very interesting topic! 

Why do you think that barter would be easier in more affluent countries? I would think that barter would spring up wherever there is a need for it.

I stack for the same reasons as you, and I'm also into crypto like your friend. If bartering with your precious metals won't work, you could sell it for a decentralized cryptocurrency like Dash, NOT a CBDC.

Tell your friend that, and he or she might become interested in stacking precious metals in addition to cryptocurrency.

Thanks for responding 👍. The reason I feel (Perhaps wrongly) that using silver to barter/pay for goods and services, in more affluent countries, is because more people own it and understand it. I have tried to talk to people here about owning gold and silver and what’s going on in the world and they look at me as if I’m mad. 20% of Portuguese earn under €400 a month and the education system here is appalling. Believe me when I say that I pray that crypto gets mass adoption and becomes an accepted form of payment. I just can’t see “them” letting it exist in its current format, when they introduce their own CBDC’s 🙏🙏🙏

[Organics]

2 hours ago, SilverJacks said:

Is there a better option? If you're locked out of the financial system, maybe you could be locked out of the internet, in which case you would only have physical goods to trade with. Perhaps owning things of more practical value - bike parts comes to mind. Bikes may become more popular in future. Supply chain issues were very bad for bikes at the height of the pandemic and the price of everything went up (new and second hand). Good thing about bike parts/components is they adhere to an industry standard and a largely interchangeable between manufacturers. 

Went off on a tangent there. Clothes, long life food, whatever is of practical use 🤷‍♂️. Monetarily speaking, I don't see anything better that physical PM...

Thanks 👍. I couldn’t agree more. Just can’t figure out what I would do with my silver if bartering isn’t an option in a cashless society. We also had an issue with any sporting goods going up on price as retailers couldn’t get hold of the stock. At times people were paying more for a second hand bike than a new one, just because the shops had all sold out 🙏🙏🙏

[Organics]

1 hour ago, goldsilverdash said:

Yes, the real question, as I understand it, is not about CBDCs as such, but rather about how to exchange gold and silver bullion for goods and services without re-entering the rotten banking system and leaving a fat digital footprint.

If physical cash is eliminated, the only answers seem to be barter and cryptocurrency.

Hi 👋, You’ve understood the question perfectly. If bartering isn’t a possibility and I don’t think crypto will exist in its current format, then what to do with my bullion without going back into the system 🤔🤔🤔

[Organics]

1 hour ago, Arganto said:

If the central banks get their way and successfully implement their own fully digital currency (as has been said above they're most of the way there) I imagine they will do everything they can to make alternative digital currencies illegal. What success they will have will depend on how authoritarian they feel emboldened to go I guess.

Hi 👋 Couldn’t agree more with everything you said about Crypto. I have been telling my friend that CBDC’s are all about a cashless society, where “they” can control every aspect of our lives. Well that’s the ultimate goal anyway. There’s no way they’re going to allow an “alternative”, and decentralised currency. It’s one of the reasons I got into stacking. A way of trying to stay out of the system 🙏🙏🙏

[Organics]

1 hour ago, SidS said:

The beauty of gold (and silver in a more limited way) is that it is portable.

Digital currencies require internet/computers etc. Bank accounts can be seized or frozen, not to mentioned be tracked and spied upon.

Gold and silver transcend boundaries and are recognised across cultures. Consider a situation like Ukraine, having to flee with what you can carry. National currencies are only of value really in the country they are issued in (except for reserve currencies perhaps). What happens if that country ceases to exist or is under international sanctions? A ounce of gold has value across all countries of the world. If you have to flee tyranny and you can take the gold with you, it can be bartered in any country on Earth.

Hi 👋 Agree about the portability of it to a certain extent. Most countries will only allow you in with a maximum of £/€/$10,000. That’s roughly 4/5 ounces of gold and forget silver. €10k is roughly 10kg in weight and not easily hidden. It’s logistically not easy. Completely agree with its universal acceptance anywhere you go. It’s real money at the end of the day and has been for centuries 🙏🙏🙏

[Bigmarc]

2 minutes ago, Organics said:

Hi 👋 Couldn’t agree more with everything you said about Crypto. I have been telling my friend that CBDC’s are all about a cashless society, where “they” can control every aspect of our lives. Well that’s the ultimate goal anyway. There’s no way they’re going to allow an “alternative”, and decentralised currency. It’s one of the reasons I got into stacking. A way of trying to stay out of the system 🙏🙏🙏

Well it's already there, proven and established. I am not sure they can just switch it off. The problem is with centralised exchanges. They can stop that from being connected to cbdc but that's it. The one positive thing about crypto is it allows the world's unbanked to be banked, no need to have a passport and an address to get a wallet like you do to get a bank account and those in the third world have the opportunity to financially move forward. The problem with it in its current form is it's just a gloyfied gambling platform. 

[Organics]

1 hour ago, Bigmarc said:

Hi and welcome to the forum. 

I do find it difficult to get my head around as nobody really knows what a cbdc is really going to look like. Personally I feel it's the bank accounts that are a problem not what currency that's in it as we have recently seen in Canada. All of our money is paid to us in digital form and we probably pay out 99% in digital so I don't feel there will be much of a change on that front as most of the general public won't notice any difference. 

When visiting Lisbon a few years back I couldn't help but notice the relaxed attitude towards the sale of marijuana on the streets and even in some shops. I would probably keep a eye on that industry and see which direction it's heading. But there is still the problem of bank accounts, crypto exchanges and anything else where you need kyc to participate, I just can't see how it would be possible to operate outside the system. 

Hi 👋 Thanks for responding 👍

CBDC’s are here for one reason alone. Control!. At least now you have the choice to take out the cash from the ATM or bank counter. There are 10’s of thousands (if not more) of poor people over here who depend on side/weekend jobs that pay cash to survive. In a cashless society they will be the first to get affected. I’m more worried about the cashless society and CBDC’s, than I am about anything that’s gone on over the last two years. I just hope as many people as possible can get ready for what’s coming 🙏🙏🙏

[SidS]

6 minutes ago, Organics said:

Hi 👋 Agree about the portability of it to a certain extent. Most countries will only allow you in with a maximum of £/€/$10,000. That’s roughly 4/5 ounces of gold and forget silver. €10k is roughly 10kg in weight and not easily hidden. It’s logistically not easy. Completely agree with its universal acceptance anywhere you go. It’s real money at the end of the day and has been for centuries 🙏🙏🙏

You just have to dress like Mr T from the A Team - fancy dress, you know.

[Organics]

Just now, SidS said:

You just have to dress like Mr T from the A Team - fancy dress, you know.

Funny you say that as someone suggested one of the expensive watches. Nowadays £100k on your wrist is not a big stretch 👍

[Organics]

7 minutes ago, Bigmarc said:

Well it's already there, proven and established. I am not sure they can just switch it off. The problem is with centralised exchanges. They can stop that from being connected to cbdc but that's it. The one positive thing about crypto is it allows the world's unbanked to be banked, no need to have a passport and an address to get a wallet like you do to get a bank account and those in the third world have the opportunity to financially move forward. The problem with it in its current form is it's just a gloyfied gambling platform. 

Bang on and your last sentence hit the nail on the head 👌

[LawrenceChard]

32 minutes ago, Organics said:

Funny you say that as someone suggested one of the expensive watches. Nowadays £100k on your wrist is not a big stretch 👍

Yes, but then you get mugged for it, even if you are a young, fit, professional footballer (Dele Alli), or an F1 driver (Lando Norris).

😎

[greendragon]

everything has a market value, what it is worth in fiat

what we are talking about here is a Black Market value

you couldn't use your silver or gold to buy items without entering the system

but, you could still buy black market items using it

drugs, weapons, illicit baccy, thing that " fall off the back of a waggon"

as long as someone else further down the line is happy to re-enter the system ( or launder the proceeds) its not a problem

you are just limited in what you can purchase.

but then again, there isn't much you CAN"T get under the counter these days