My 1887 Quintuple Jubilee Sovereign

[Zhorro]

8 minutes ago, James32 said:

Was exactly my thoughts, looks like 3 x file marks.

 

If they are file marks then I think it would get a "details" grade if it went in for grading - but then you would know for certain whether it is genuine.

[LawrenceChard]

47 minutes ago, Spyder said:

The dealer I originally bought it from has a very good reputation. Sadly retired now.  Good honest and fair priced coin and stamp shops are starting to become a rarity nowadays as more retired due to ill health or age. I use to have the best. Would sell me coins at spot price, sometimes even under.

It would help people to help you if you name the supplying dealer, and also the "central London dealer", otherwise we are all playing unnecessary guessing games.

You might also be shocked at the number of dealers with "very good reputations", who make mistakes and / or sell fakes with little care for accuracy or their reputation.

For example:

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Edited December 30, 2022 by LawrenceChard

[Spyder]

I think this photo should end the file treatment debate. I think it definitely looks like edge knocks 

[Spyder]

Just had an idea, maybe in the past someone tried to do a ping test

[James32]

1 minute ago, Spyder said:

Just had an idea, maybe in the past someone tried to do a ping test

With a fork?

[Booky586]

The last photo shows off its lovely "proof like" appearance

[LawrenceChard]

15 minutes ago, Spyder said:

I think this photo should end the file treatment debate. I think it definitely looks like edge knocks 

Now, that looks like real Quality Street!

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8 minutes ago, James32 said:

With a fork?

Jeweller's file more like!

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[Arganto]

In my humble opinion that's likely had a file (well, three) across it, possibly it's been to three separate pawn shops, the second and third of which thought the previous mark/marks were suss? Edge knocks happen, but for a trio to appear in the same area up against the idea of non-experts testing for a fake gold coin...? 

It's unfortunate whatever the truth, that said if it's real it's still a nice looking coin🌞

 

[Stuntman]

I don't think it's a proof coin.

I don't think those 3 marks are edge knocks - they are too specific for that.

I agree with the other posters who say that this particular coin is often faked.

So if it was my own coin - I would be seriously considering if I wanted to keep it.  If I didn't want to keep it then I would probably look to sell it as an ungraded coin, but I appreciate that any potential buyer would need convincing as to its genuineness - so that might take you down the graded route.

Unless it had particular sentimental or personal value to me, the filing marks and other imperfections would detract from my enjoyment of the coin.

Personally I would sell it and reinvest the proceeds into other gold coins, even another quintuple from a reputable source if you wanted a coin of that size.  But I'd probably put it into bullion sovereigns, doubles, or 1 oz coins.  

I own five quintuple sovereigns and I love the size and heft of them.

 

Good luck with your decisions.

[pricha]

My favourites are hazelnut.  

[pricha]

The bloodshot eye is striking . Bizarre 

[pricha]

I had a chance of a 1887 double that looked too good to be true. Reading Mr Chards piece on the subject changed my mind ( Thank You ), a lucky break. 

[Silverlocks]

57 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Now, that looks like real Quality Street!

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Jeweller's file more like!

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Well, there you go.  Clearly OP's coin is 40% platinum.

[sovereignsteve]

4 hours ago, Spyder said:

I think being offered over £2000, nine years ago by a central London dealer would pass the fake test

I wouldn't bank on it. As previously said, many dealers have been fooled by this coin, I have seen more than a few obvious fakes in auctions over the years and you'd be surprised by which auction houses as well😮

Allowing for the fact that photos rarely tell the full tale and these are good but not top notch, I would guess this coin is fake but one of the pretty good ones with none of the obvious faults often seen. There seem to be several "poor" details that appear to be too indistinct to be genuine.

If it were me I would get it graded as soon as. The money will not be wasted; it is a decent grade and having it in a holder will increase it's value substantially. If it turns out to be fake, well at least you'll know☹️

 

[Roy]

3 hours ago, James32 said:

Was exactly my thoughts, looks like 3 x file marks.

Sadly, my thoughts too.

edit: but a reputable coin dealer wouldn't have done that, or indeed ever needed to. that's the work of a pawnshop/cash for gold outfit, i'd wager.

Sorry OP, we're not attacking you.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Roy

[modofantasma]

4 hours ago, dicker said:

There is another possibility with respect to the edge knocks

Thanks for sharing will save that to have a proper read

[Spyder]

I would like to thank everyone who has commented regarding my coin.  Having been miffed earlier about the edge knocks, in one way,  I am now more convinced that they have been done by a jewelers file before my time. This is why I put the photos on here as there are very good forum members and professional dealers who can give good and honest opinions obtained from knowledge over so many years.  

I'm loving the coin again as now I know it was not damaged while in my possession. I am a custodian until the next person will have the pleasure. I think the person/s who did do this damage to such a beautiful coin should be locked up and never be allowed to touch a file again.

Regarding getting the coin graded. I don't think I will as I have no intentions at present in selling this coin. 

Lawrence did ask about who the coin dealer was who authenticated the coin 9 years ago, let's just say he was off the Charing Cross Road and not on it.

[Arganto]

11 minutes ago, Spyder said:

I am a custodian until the next person will have the pleasure

 

11 minutes ago, Spyder said:

Regarding getting the coin graded. I don't think I will as I have no intentions at present in selling this coin. 

That's one way of looking at it, and if you keep it forever it doesn't really matter. If you do ever sell it though I would at least have it analysed for the metal content, that way if it isn't genuine at least you can be sure of it's melt value. I'm not personally interested in graded coins, but for the purposes of revealing authenticity I can see the value in it as it's not a huge amount to get done.

[LawrenceChard]

10 hours ago, Spyder said:

Lawrence did ask about who the coin dealer was who authenticated the coin 9 years ago, let's just say he was off the Charing Cross Road and not on it.

Still playing the silly guessing game?

WTF!

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[Petra]

8 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Still playing the silly guessing game?

WTF!

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🤔 you obviously know who it is .. please let us lesser mortals in on the secret?🤔🤔😮🫣

[LawrenceChard]

9 hours ago, Arganto said:

That's one way of looking at it, and if you keep it forever it doesn't really matter. If you do ever sell it though I would at least have it analysed for the metal content, that way if it isn't genuine at least you can be sure of it's melt value. I'm not personally interested in graded coins, but for the purposes of revealing authenticity I can see the value in it as it's not a huge amount to get done.

It would make sense to find out whether it is genuine or fake. On the other hand, if the OP is not intending to sell, it does not really matter, as it will not change the underlying facts.

Having an XRF test would not harm the coin, but would never, on its own, be able to guarantee the coin was genuine. High quality fakes are near identical in composition, and need considerable expertise to differentiate. Of course, if the alloy analysis shows that the alloy is incorrect, then this is undesputable* evidence that the coin is fake, even if the gold content is too high rather than too low. The silver content should also be about 12 ppt, as this is an 1887 London Mint jubilee issue.

* indesputable if you are American.

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[LawrenceChard]

28 minutes ago, Petra said:

🤔 you obviously know who it is .. please let us lesser mortals in on the secret?🤔🤔😮🫣

I don't know.

It is hard enough to try to work out from the photos whether the coin is genuine without going into pointless guessing games, but a lot of newbies seem to enjoy doing this for some reason. I also asked about the supplying dealer, but that also appears to be top secret classified information.

😎

 

[CollectForFun]

27 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

undesputable* 

* indesputable if you are American.

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That's quite disputable in my opinion...

[LawrenceChard]

13 minutes ago, CollectForFun said:

That's quite disputable in my opinion...

Is this the right room for an argument?

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[Stuntman]

There is/was a coin shop in that part of London which I think was called Coin Heritage, also known as Philip Cohen Numismatics or something similar.  I browsed in there a few times.  He used to have some really nice modern gold proof sets, some older gold coins including sovereigns and guineas, and some decent predecimal stock.  So if it was that dealer, he is completely reputable in my opinion.

Back when I was browsing there (circa 2014-16) I hadn't yet really immersed myself in the world of precious metals.  That's a shame, because I remember that the dealer had a 1989 proof sovereign 3 or 4 coin set (think it was the 3 coin set but I cannot fully remember) at what was very reasonable money back then, and which would be an absolute bargain now.