Another suspect sovereign being auctioned.

[MJCOIN]

https://www.easyliveauction.com/catalogue/lot/7a61f783a129b9de62607bc164e0d597/0af8d24542e81eb9357e7ef448a6646f/general-sale-viewing-and-room-bidding-available-lot-111/

Not contacted the auction house.

Edited April 9, 2022 by MJCOIN

[modofantasma]

It doesn't look good. 

[modofantasma]

Other than visually it not looking right... 

Somebody else count the rest of these things. I make it that there are too many on the 'suspect coin' compared to what I assume is a genuine example on a world famous in Blackpool bullion dealers photo (bracing myself for the legal ramifications) @LawrenceChard

Also checked a couple of other photos of sovs from the same year 

[MJCOIN]

The "B P" also looks wrong.

[Petra]

Being new to this, am I right in assuming that you counted 17, so rather than count all the way around a coin you know how many to count in a set distance? How many etc. please?

[harrygill111]

Is this a fake but real but fake? Surely the auction houses check the metal?? 

[modofantasma]

7 minutes ago, Petra said:

Being new to this, am I right in assuming that you counted 17, so rather than count all the way around a coin you know how many to count in a set distance? How many etc. please?

Yes basically. The auction photo was slightly rotated and seemed to be a bit blurred (although that might be the coin too)  if the photo was of Chards quality then it might be more clear 

[dicker]

3 minutes ago, harrygill111 said:

Is this a fake but real but fake? Surely the auction houses check the metal?? 

Many do not know better. Coins are not things they specialise in - especially the smaller auctions.

My local auction house is good, professional and I have not seen anything counterfeit in 25 years I have been going there.  But thats because they deal with high end items (art over 100k) so need to stay whiter than white.

[MJCOIN]

5 minutes ago, harrygill111 said:

Is this a fake but real but fake? Surely the auction houses check the metal?? 

They probably go as far as weighing the coins, but how precise are their scales?  

[harrygill111]

Wow - I always just assumed thorogh checks are done. Luckily I've only purchased in coin specialist auctions.

[MJCOIN]

Just now, dicker said:

Many do not know better. Coins are not things they specialise in - especially the smaller auctions.

My local auction house is good, professional and I have not seen anything counterfeit in 25 years I have been going there.  But thats because they deal with high end items (art over 100k) so need to stay whiter than white.

I've been looking at sovereigns listed in auctions for over a year now and never come across any obvious fakes until this past week or so.  Perhaps someone is buying these coins from the fakers and selling them in auctions to unsuspecting auction houses who don't know any better?  Lets asume these can be bought for a fraction of the price of a real sovereign.  Even after auction house fees the seller is still making a tidy profit.

[modofantasma]

13 minutes ago, Petra said:

Being new to this, am I right in assuming that you counted 17, so rather than count all the way around a coin you know how many to count in a set distance? How many etc. please?

Before even counting though the design isn't very sharp. It looks as if the photo is blurred a bit or as if the coin doesn't have that sharpness. I'm far from an expert but have spent quite a lot of time looking at my sovs and when people post threads like this I take a good look and compare to 4 or 5 dealer photos of the same year coin. 

Just to aid my learning I split the photo in to sections... For eg Look at the dragons hand how it lacks detail. Perhaps the lettering in another. The horses body in another. ST George in another section and so on 

[modofantasma]

Just look at 10 or 20 and compare them to that one on the auction but also to each other 

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=1918+sovereign&t=brave&iax=images&ia=images

[GoldDiggerDave]

Have they got any nine bob notes in the auction? 

[LawrenceChard]

3 hours ago, harrygill111 said:

Is this a fake but real but fake? Surely the auction houses check the metal?? 

Maybe yes, maybe no!

😎

4 hours ago, MJCOIN said:

https://www.easyliveauction.com/catalogue/lot/7a61f783a129b9de62607bc164e0d597/0af8d24542e81eb9357e7ef448a6646f/general-sale-viewing-and-room-bidding-available-lot-111/

Not contacted the auction house.

 

4 hours ago, modofantasma said:

It doesn't look good. 

 

3 hours ago, Petra said:

Being new to this, am I right in assuming that you counted 17, so rather than count all the way around a coin you know how many to count in a set distance? How many etc. please?

 

3 hours ago, harrygill111 said:

Is this a fake but real but fake? Surely the auction houses check the metal?? 

 

3 hours ago, dicker said:

Many do not know better. Coins are not things they specialise in - especially the smaller auctions.

My local auction house is good, professional and I have not seen anything counterfeit in 25 years I have been going there.  But thats because they deal with high end items (art over 100k) so need to stay whiter than white.

What nobody seems to have noticed yet is that it is a

1918 London Mint (no mint mark). These are extremely rare.

I sent them an e-mail:

info@halfway-auctions.com

 

11th Apr 22 at 5:30pm BST Lot 111

Dear Sirs,

Is there any particular reason that you have omitted to mention that

https://www.easyliveauction.com/catalogue/lot/7a61f783a129b9de62607bc164e0d597/0af8d24542e81eb9357e7ef448a6646f/general-sale-viewing-and-room-bidding-available-lot-111/

22ct Gold 1918 full sovereign coin

is a counterfeit?

Regards,

Lawrence Chard

Chard (1964) Limited
32 - 36 Harrowside
Blackpool
FY4 1RJ
England, UK.

Tel 0044 (0)1253 343081

www.chards.co.uk

😎

[LawrenceChard]

4 hours ago, MJCOIN said:

The "B P" also looks wrong.

Is there anything that does look right?

😎

[LawrenceChard]

3 hours ago, harrygill111 said:

Wow - I always just assumed thorogh checks are done. Luckily I've only purchased in coin specialist auctions.

What, like St. James Auctions?

😎

or...

AUKTIONEN FRÜHWALD

https://www.sixbid.com/de/auktionen-fruehwald/8579/-/7148406/grossbritannien-george-v-1910?fbclid=IwAR1fttHHDDLCbrySIDZUNRB9R1GdCtKKrE2N83g9FRd5sj4gm-6ar4hoW48

or IberCoin

I am sure that fake coins in auctions are almost a daily occurrence.

 

 

[MJCOIN]

11 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Is there anything that does look right?

😎

Not really. 🤣

[Foster88]

10 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Maybe yes, maybe no!

😎

 

 

 

 

What nobody seems to have noticed yet is that it is a

1918 London Mint (no mint mark). These are extremely rare.

I sent them an e-mail:

info@halfway-auctions.com

 

11th Apr 22 at 5:30pm BST Lot 111

Dear Sirs,

Is there any particular reason that you have omitted to mention that

https://www.easyliveauction.com/catalogue/lot/7a61f783a129b9de62607bc164e0d597/0af8d24542e81eb9357e7ef448a6646f/general-sale-viewing-and-room-bidding-available-lot-111/

22ct Gold 1918 full sovereign coin

is a counterfeit?

Regards,

Lawrence Chard

Chard (1964) Limited
32 - 36 Harrowside
Blackpool
FY4 1RJ
England, UK.

Tel 0044 (0)1253 343081

www.chards.co.uk

😎

Ouch, I felt the sting after that slap. 😆

But credit to you Lawrence for emailing them and highlighting that they’re selling a fake.

[Seasider]

The coin cabinet have 2 2017 sovereigns in their next auction described as proofs but the design just looks wrong to me.  I suspect they are SOTD sovereigns misidentified by NGC

2017 Gold Sovereign 200th Anniversary Proof NGC PF 70 ULTRA CAMEO #6134292-019 (AGW=0.2355 oz.) | The Coin Cabinet Auctions

[sovereignsteve]

I see what you mean, the obverse does look more SOTD BUNC than proof

[MJCOIN]

1 hour ago, Seasider said:

The coin cabinet have 2 2017 sovereigns in their next auction described as proofs but the design just looks wrong to me.  I suspect they are SOTD sovereigns misidentified by NGC

2017 Gold Sovereign 200th Anniversary Proof NGC PF 70 ULTRA CAMEO #6134292-019 (AGW=0.2355 oz.) | The Coin Cabinet Auctions

These sovereigns quite often get assigned a PF70 rather than MS70 in error. Seen this on other SOTDs too.

[Seasider]

1 hour ago, sovereignsteve said:

I see what you mean, the obverse does look more SOTD BUNC than proof

Yes I was just going by the missing garter on the "other" side.  But there is also the date.

[coinory]

On 09/04/2022 at 18:09, harrygill111 said:

Is this a fake but real but fake? Surely the auction houses check the metal?? 

I used to buy from auctions on easy live, Most of them will claim they have already checked the coin and nothing is wrong with the coin.

[CollectForFun]

Meanwhile in Austria:

https://numis24.com/lots/view/63a191b845aa810e9cc2d916

Lot description:

Great Britain 1 pound 1927, with various countermarks, EF/UNC (!?!), rare 😂

@LawrenceChard - do you want to engage in a discussion with yet another Austrian auctioneer, or shall I try this time?