Would you buy this 1817 Sovereign?

[modofantasma]

Hi Folks 

Saw this today. Whilst I'm really a bullion stacker I would like to get a few of the pre Victoria portraits 

Do you think it's worth buying a coin like this with the wear at that price point? (I suppose if it dissappears in the next few minutes I got my answer) 

Do you think it is better value to buy one in better condition at a higher price? 

I'm not particularly worried about budget more interested in value and what I get for the money. 

https://atkinsonsbullion.com/pre-owned/dated-sovereigns/george-iii-1816-1837/pre-owned-1817-george-iii-full-sovereign-gold-coin

[Stuntman]

Personally I wouldn't, because I don't think it is value for money in that condition for the price, and I don't think that it would give me enough pleasure of ownership aesthetically to justify spending that much on it.

But it's a pretty cool piece of history, especially being an 1817 (the first of the modern sovereigns) so I would completely understand someone else coming to the opposite conclusion.

That's probably the entry-point for these sorts of coins nowadays but it does seem expensive to me.

[Stuntman]

This is my usual go-to resource if I want a sense of auction hammer prices for similar items (remember to add buyer premiums and any other charges to get an idea of actual buying prices):

https://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&searchterm=Sovereign+1817&category=9&searchtype=1

[Stuntman]

In my opinion, the price being asked by Atkinsons doesn't appear too out-of-line with the auction prices for similar coins.  Given that this coin will hold niche appeal to their average customer, you might even be able to negotiate with them over the phone a bit on price.

Good luck with your decision.

[Leonmarsh]

It's not bad not great but you will always look at it and think I want a proper au / ms one 

Then your paying triple that though I suppose and more in the case of MS 

[Paul]

The prices and general interest in 1817s have certainly increased past few years with the popularity of the 2017 anniversary coin. Some modernists liking the original companion. It's not silly money for it IMO 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Paul

[Shep]

I would vote no. It looks a wee bit too worn to enjoy imho.

If you want a garter Sovereign but are not too fussed about it being an 1817, perhaps look for an 1820 one? You’ll likely find one in much better condition for around the same money or perhaps just a little more.

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Shep

[Paul]

I resisted and stopped bidding an ms60 one at coin cabinet auction whenever it was a few years back and next time I saw one go in same grade it sold for £500+ more than I backed out at

[Leonmarsh]

They have rocketed these coins ms60 would probably be 3k I reckon maybe a little less? 

[modofantasma]

Thanks for the input folks. It does seem expensive to me but so does 5% over spot 😂

I think looking for a better grade but one of the other years with the same portrait could be a better way for me

[modofantasma]

3 minutes ago, Leonmarsh said:

They have rocketed these coins ms60 would probably be 3k I reckon maybe a little less? 

I know next to nothing about grades and grading other than 70 being better than a 69

[SlowFrog]

70 might be technically better but I love a good 69. Come on, don't blame me I was just getting in first before someone else. I've never even had one.

But anyway, kind of related to the topic - I bought this old one quite recently:

 Was pretty much in the same boat! Just wanted an older sovereign to enjoy as I didn't own any. No way I could afford to pay the asking price of one without any major flaws given that I mainly collect bullion (although that's slowly changing!). I have absolutely no idea if I was ripped off because it was an impulse buy from a friend of a friend that also collects coins. £ guesses are welcome!

Edited March 31, 2022 by SlowFrog
lol, just remembered that I have ONE graded coin and it's a 69 so I guess I have.

[modofantasma]

16 minutes ago, SlowFrog said:

70 might be technically better but I love a good 69. Come on, don't blame me I was just getting in first before someone else. I've never even had one.

But anyway, kind of related to the topic - I bought this old one quite recently:

 Was pretty much in the same boat! Just wanted an older sovereign to enjoy as I didn't own any. No way I could afford to pay the asking price of one without any major flaws given that I mainly collect bullion (although that's slowly changing!). I have absolutely no idea if I was ripped off because it was an impulse buy from a friend of a friend that also collects coins. £ guesses are welcome!

Yeh I saw that. I would take something in that condition as long as I didn't have to weigh in any organs for it 

[sovereignsteve]

While EF and better examples of these early G3 sovs are rather beautiful, I do quite like the worn examples. They have a certain character of their own. It must be due to the garter rim which is quite unique for sovereigns, and does protect the G&D detail to a large degree. However, I do draw the line somewhere, and examples lacking any detail at all in the effigy especially are a definite no no. For me anyway.

[Midasfrog]

Looks like it has been sold now but there is another George III sovereign up for grabs although it is more expensive and the year is 1818 👍

[Stuntman]

^^^ Who is going to post the 1817 in 'Today I Received' then?
If it's just been sold, it is very likely to have been to someone who's been reading this.

(Am definitely not the buyer!)

[modofantasma]

3 minutes ago, Stuntman said:

^^^ Who is going to post the 1817 in 'Today I Received' then?
If it's just been sold, it is very likely to have been to someone who's been reading this.

(Am definitely not the buyer!)

Wasn't me but I did wonder... If it got snapped up the second I posted it I would have had my answer one way or the other 

[Stuntman]

I've posted this before, but if you like this garter design and want something with a bit of age, the silver Crowns from 1818-1820 fit the bill very nicely.  I paid £120 for this 1820 example from a reputable coin dealer about 7 years ago and I probably overpaid.  It's still very lovely, and strikes a nice balance (in my opinion) between having had some proper circulation whilst not having lost too much of the design detail.  

 

[modofantasma]

If Atk want to send me commission PM's are always open 😂

[Midasfrog]

3 minutes ago, Stuntman said:

^^^ Who is going to post the 1817 in 'Today I Received' then?
If it's just been sold, it is very likely to have been to someone who's been reading this.

(Am definitely not the buyer!)

If I found it with a metal detector I would be doing the gold dance 😂 

[SlowFrog]

Just for the record.. I didn't buy it either!

[SovereignBishop]

17 hours ago, modofantasma said:

Hi Folks 

Saw this today. Whilst I'm really a bullion stacker I would like to get a few of the pre Victoria portraits 

Do you think it's worth buying a coin like this with the wear at that price point? (I suppose if it dissappears in the next few minutes I got my answer) 

Do you think it is better value to buy one in better condition at a higher price? 

I'm not particularly worried about budget more interested in value and what I get for the money. 

https://atkinsonsbullion.com/pre-owned/dated-sovereigns/george-iii-1816-1837/pre-owned-1817-george-iii-full-sovereign-gold-coin

Too be fair. If people are prepared to pay £800 for a 2022 SOTD sovereign and justify that by saying 'it is a piece of history', I don't see why £800 for this over 200 year old piece of history is not worth it.

[modofantasma]

5 minutes ago, SovereignBishop said:

Too be fair. If people are prepared to pay £800 for a 2022 SOTD sovereign and justify that by saying 'it is a piece of history', I don't see why £800 for this over 200 year old piece of history is not worth it.

The SOTD I wouldn't even consider personally. It's an interesting comparison though. Sure long in the future everything will be a piece of history 🤔

[refero]

On 31/03/2022 at 20:28, modofantasma said:

Hi Folks 

Saw this today. Whilst I'm really a bullion stacker I would like to get a few of the pre Victoria portraits 

Do you think it's worth buying a coin like this with the wear at that price point? (I suppose if it dissappears in the next few minutes I got my answer) 

Do you think it is better value to buy one in better condition at a higher price? 

I'm not particularly worried about budget more interested in value and what I get for the money. 

https://atkinsonsbullion.com/pre-owned/dated-sovereigns/george-iii-1816-1837/pre-owned-1817-george-iii-full-sovereign-gold-coin

The 1817 sov is not a "rare" coin per se. It is an expensive one, that's for sure. It can be compared to the 1838; you can find them (and often in high grading) in every medium-to-high level auction. There are dozens slabbed by PCGS-NGC. It is just a matter of saving enough money to be able to afford a decent one. I d never get a 1817 coin in fine condition, for that amount..