Damaged 1oz Silver Eagle bought from EMK

[ArgentSmith]

42 minutes ago, TeaTime said:

If it's bullion then i want it at spot + production + sensible profit margin, not at premium prices.

spot + production + sensible profit margin + delivery + VAT

A lot of bullion coins are sold in monster boxes to buyers who won't bother to open the box let alone the tubes let alone take a loop to each of them, a growing number of people don't even take delivery.

[James32]

Just now, JamieGotSilver said:

Hey guys, thanks for all the replies!! Very helpful. 
 

I was buying a gift on the website so thought I’d pick this up as a way of trying to justify the delivery cost to myself! 🤦‍♂️ My mistake. 
 

I think I’ll return it and be Jamie-got-no-silver 😂

 

Don't be too hard on yourself, it's all part of the learning process....a few weeks on here and you will likely see/buy everything you need.

Welcome by the way

[Centauri167]

8 hours ago, TeaTime said:

Maybe it's time to stop calling silver coins with a hefty premium over spot 'bullion'. The RM went from describing coins as BU to bullion as a way to cover themselves for shoddy production practices. Dictionary definition...'gold or silver in bulk before coining, or valued by weight'.

To me it's no different to buying any product that is sold partly because of it's aesthetic appeal. Just because it's made of a precious metal does not entitle sellers to pass off coins with holes in them and then state 'it doesn't matter because it's bullion'. If it's bullion then i want it at spot + production + sensible profit margin, not at premium prices. Some people buy coins not just as a way to stack silver but for the eye appeal or for collection purposes.

Maybe this whole topic is really about rip-off prices rather than the condition of the coins. Once you start paying nearly double spot the expectation of what you receive increases proportionately...  

 

 

 

I think you are correct that if you see the premiums on some regular coins, you can not call them bullion any longer but at least semi-numismastic.

 

In this case, the dealer should have paid a % of the premium back. No shipping costs, just a amount to make up the loss when you will sell the coin again.

 

It's never nice that things like this happens but it's a good way to know who the good dealers are and who you have to avoid !

[dikefalos]

I hate to say this, but it is bullion, it's value is not affected. If we buy a bullion coin for sentimental reasons and pay a collector's premium for it, that's our problem. If you want to buy a flawless bullion coin, you have to go for graded ones. That's why people are paying NGC and PCGS. Or hope, you find some in your tube. The condition of a bulliin coin, especially uncapsuled, is always a gamble. Not even this Mintdirect packaging by APMEX guarantees you perfect coins, but people paying a higher premium for it. But again, that's our fault. And i'm really sorry about this.

[Centauri167]

12 hours ago, dikefalos said:

I hate to say this, but it is bullion, it's value is not affected. If we buy a bullion coin for sentimental reasons and pay a collector's premium for it, that's our problem. If you want to buy a flawless bullion coin, you have to go for graded ones. That's why people are paying NGC and PCGS. Or hope, you find some in your tube. The condition of a bulliin coin, especially uncapsuled, is always a gamble. Not even this Mintdirect packaging by APMEX guarantees you perfect coins, but people paying a higher premium for it. But again, that's our fault. And i'm really sorry about this.

If you go and sell two of these same bullion coins ( one in normal condition and the other one we see here on the photo ) to a dealer you will get less money for the damaged one, that's just a fact !

So bullion or no bullion this coins is worth less because of the damage and their should be a kind of compensation for it from the company who sold it !

[Alex944]

On 02/02/2022 at 22:28, James32 said:

Don't be too hard on yourself, it's all part of the learning process....a few weeks on here and you will likely see/buy everything you need.

I fully second this. Part of starting your stacking journey is also finding out that you may have purchased things you don't enjoy, and you may get into situations like this where you just aren't fully satisfied with your purchase. It can kinda blow, but in the same time it's a great experience in terms of deciding your next purchase (and where to purchase it from).

Personally, I think it's a good opportunity. This coin no longer carries a decent premium due to the indentation, so by all means, use it as a pocket piece. Holding an ounce of silver is a pretty nice thing, and you don't want to do that with some pristine coins that come in capsules. This is a nice piece to just play around with. almost all of my silver is in capsules or flips, apart from 5  1oz bullion krugerrands which accompany me on my desk. Expensive stressball but definitely does the trick.

[TringSilver]

5 hours ago, Centauri167 said:

If you go and sell two of these same bullion coins ( one in normal condition and the other one we see here on the photo ) to a dealer you will get less money for the damaged one, that's just a fact !

I don't agree with this, if you take this to a dealer along with another perfect coin you'd get spot or their going rate for it regardless.

It's bullion and these coins are minted in the millions, at speed, clattering around on conveyor belts and being dropped into large bins before going on more machines to be dropped into tubes. People would do well to remember this when they pay £40 for a coin and the other crazy premiums we have seen due to the "silver squeeze"

[Centauri167]

8 hours ago, TringSilver said:

I don't agree with this, if you take this to a dealer along with another perfect coin you'd get spot or their going rate for it regardless.

It's bullion and these coins are minted in the millions, at speed, clattering around on conveyor belts and being dropped into large bins before going on more machines to be dropped into tubes. People would do well to remember this when they pay £40 for a coin and the other crazy premiums we have seen due to the "silver squeeze"

Maybe in the Uk you only get spott for your Bullion silver, here we get a lot of or premiums back when the coin is in a good condition but when it is damaged like the one on the photo you get spott or even under spott so it makes a world of a difference !

[SilverStorm]

Whenever I buy bullion from my local online dealer, I always request BU condition, as well as specifying no scratches, dings, dents, or marks.  It’s been good so far.  It helps when I only buy current year mintage.  

[Centauri167]

Yesterday I just watched a video on youtube from Silver Seeker. He was calling coinshops to ask how much they paid for silver rounds and/ or silver eagles.

All of them said a price when the coins were in perfect condition with no scratches, dents, damage, ...; so all the people here who keep on saying that  damage on a bullion coin doesn't matter should better see this video and see that they are wrong !

[Petra]

I’m pretty new to this, but bullion or other, pretty obvious about damage to a coin. Damaged coin just another excuse to pay less! We know that silver is silver/ gold is gold damaged or not.

[TringSilver]

3 hours ago, Centauri167 said:

Yesterday I just watched a video on youtube from Silver Seeker. He was calling coinshops to ask how much they paid for silver rounds and/ or silver eagles.

I can't comment on the USA or EU, but in the UK the below is a representative price that could be obtained from selling this coin to a dealer. It is 30p over spot, I strongly believe that they wouldn't decrease this for the coin shown. Would they sell it for less, yes potentially.

 

[Centauri167]

12 minutes ago, TringSilver said:

I can't comment on the USA or EU, but in the UK the below is a representative price that could be obtained from selling this coin to a dealer. It is 30p over spot, I strongly believe that they wouldn't decrease this for the coin shown. Would they sell it for less, yes potentially.

 

If you pay 30p over spott, on a coin with such a high premium, you already just pay the spott silver price so in that case you will probably loose nothing or almost nothing when the coin is damaged ...

[dikefalos]

38 minutes ago, Centauri167 said:

If you pay 30p over spott, on a coin with such a high premium, you already just pay the spott silver price so in that case you will probably loose nothing or almost nothing when the coin is damaged ...

Why you think, people was paying more than 10k $ for a 1999 MS70 Silver Eagle? Because the quality of US bullion coins isn't the greatest. If you go and pay for a Renault Clio the same like for a Aventador you can't expect the Clio to be a Lambo. Dealers selling with high premiums, like for the Eagles, cause people are paying them. But only because you paid 5$ more, than for cheaper bullion, you can't expect a perfectly strucked, uncapsuled bullion coin. Again, if you want perfect coins, buy graded, or proof coins. Otherwise you buy 1 OZ silver with a nice design on it, nothing more. 

[ArgentSmith]

14 minutes ago, dikefalos said:

Why you think, people was paying more than 10k $ for a 1999 MS70 Silver Eagle? Because the quality of US bullion coins isn't the greatest. If you go and pay for a Renault Clio the same like for a Aventador you can't expect the Clio to be a Lambo. Dealers selling with high premiums, like for the Eagles, cause people are paying them. But only because you paid 5$ more, than for cheaper bullion, you can't expect a perfectly strucked, uncapsuled bullion coin. Again, if you want perfect coins, buy graded, or proof coins. Otherwise you buy 1 OZ silver with a nice design on it, nothing more. 

Spot on 😂

 

[ArgentSmith]

21 minutes ago, dikefalos said:

if you want perfect coins, buy graded, or proof coins

Even proofs coins are going to be a lottery otherwise what would be the point in grading if they all came out PF70

[Centauri167]

47 minutes ago, dikefalos said:

Why you think, people was paying more than 10k $ for a 1999 MS70 Silver Eagle? Because the quality of US bullion coins isn't the greatest. If you go and pay for a Renault Clio the same like for a Aventador you can't expect the Clio to be a Lambo. Dealers selling with high premiums, like for the Eagles, cause people are paying them. But only because you paid 5$ more, than for cheaper bullion, you can't expect a perfectly strucked, uncapsuled bullion coin. Again, if you want perfect coins, buy graded, or proof coins. Otherwise you buy 1 OZ silver with a nice design on it, nothing more. 

I rest my case when I read things like this.

Point is that the dealer sold a coin with a high premium that was damaged. Because of the damage your premium is gone or at least for the biggest part so a compensation of the premium part is the least you can expect from the dealer. It's less profit for him but a good customer care what will earn morn in the long run.

I remember I bought a golden Indian 10USD last year at my Lcs. When I came home I saw a big scratch on one side, I could change it for an other without a problem, that is what you can call service! ( the coin was put in a capsule in the shop so it was not damaged during transport )

 

The comparison of the renault and the lambo is just stupid because in this case he paid for a renault but got a dacia ...

[motorbikez]

Lol this is getting out of hand for a theoretical loss of £3-£4 not an actual loss. Not worth fussing about at all IMHO the OP hasn't bought a 1000 damaged coins he's bought 1.

[TeaTime]

By that logic if i buy 1 kettle that has a hole in the bottom i shouldn't complain ?

The term 'bullion' is bandied about by people but what do they mean when they say it.  'Bullion' has no agreed defined meaning. Dealers take advantage of this to justify selling faulty product. Not so long ago mass produced coins that came from the mint to the buyer were termed uncirculated. Would peoples attitudes change if this was purchased as uncirculated ?

Bullion does not mean second quality - it originally referred to the fact that a coin was made of precious metal. It was not a means to pass off scrap at a premium and negate all responsibility for providing a decent coin.

Some people buy coins in the hundreds as a commodity and i'm sure they don't care if some of them have holes in them. After all they're just buying bulk silver in the form of minted coins. Most people though buy a silver coin for the aesthetic merit of the product. How hard is it for a dealer to look at the coin, see that it's defective and stick it aside for the bulk purchaser. It would take literally seconds.

It's notable in this thread that stackers/investors and collectors have different views. Perhaps some of the statements declaring silver coins to be acceptable in any condition as long as they're round and made of silver are from sellers of silver coins ?

[Centauri167]

2 hours ago, TeaTime said:

By that logic if i buy 1 kettle that has a hole in the bottom i shouldn't complain ?

The term 'bullion' is bandied about by people but what do they mean when they say it.  'Bullion' has no agreed defined meaning. Dealers take advantage of this to justify selling faulty product. Not so long ago mass produced coins that came from the mint to the buyer were termed uncirculated. Would peoples attitudes change if this was purchased as uncirculated ?

Bullion does not mean second quality - it originally referred to the fact that a coin was made of precious metal. It was not a means to pass off scrap at a premium and negate all responsibility for providing a decent coin.

Some people buy coins in the hundreds as a commodity and i'm sure they don't care if some of them have holes in them. After all they're just buying bulk silver in the form of minted coins. Most people though buy a silver coin for the aesthetic merit of the product. How hard is it for a dealer to look at the coin, see that it's defective and stick it aside for the bulk purchaser. It would take literally seconds.

It's notable in this thread that stackers/investors and collectors have different views. Perhaps some of the statements declaring silver coins to be acceptable in any condition as long as they're round and made of silver are from sellers of silver coins ?

I fully agree with you !

 

I am much more a stacker than a collector but when I pay I higher premium for something, I have the right to get that premium by getting a coin that is not damaged.

In the US you can buy cull coins, ( or how they call ut ? ) that are circulated coins with possible slight damage, scratches or milkspotting. If you buy those, you have no reason to complain.

 

I don't agree that a dealer must check every coin, but when he get's a complaint on a coin with a high premium ( and a silver eagle has a crazy high premium ) he should give your customer some service by offering a replacement or gining a partial refund of the premium.

 

When you buy something on a site like amazon and the box is damaged, you just have to sent it back on their cost and get a replacement, no questions asked, but when you buy a precious metal you must just accept that it can be damaged ... ????

 

[ArgentSmith]

Do you send your burger back in McDonald’s because it’s not perfectly centred on the bun?

[Centauri167]

15 minutes ago, ArgentSmith said:

Do you send your burger back in McDonald’s because it’s not perfectly centred on the bun?

Was that a rhetorical question ?

 

I hope you feel your post was a contribution to this discussion ...

[kimchi]

42 minutes ago, ArgentSmith said:

Do you send your burger back in McDonald’s because it’s not perfectly centred on the bun?

I tend to send them back when they haven't got enough horsemeat in them

[MetalMandible]

While I agree that the premium is most likely affected when you go to resell, that's the risk you take when buying a coin like this from an online dealer.  I've had similar (albeit never a gaping manhole) issues and ultimately, its something you just gotta deal with... 

IMO if you can pay the same price, always go for the older ASE as the quality was greater prior to the tenure of the U.S. mint's previous ding dong director.

Edited February 6, 2022 by MetalMandible

[HillWalkerDundee]

My view is that the coin is defective. It has a hole in it and you are paying exactly the same for the defective as you would a unblemished one. I must read up on the distance selling regulations.

Personally, from a customer service point of view, i would not purchase any more from that company (TSF is better). I wouldnt leave it there though, i would let the company know you arent buying any more and why - they cant improve without feedback. I would also use social media e.g. Trust Pilot etc.