HMRC Trawling for Sellers using Social Media

[HerefordBullyun]

18 minutes ago, Martlet said:

 Public services without any public funding from taxation?  Private roads, private police, private fire brigade, private refuse collection?  Schools, health, army all run as a business?  Does not sound like much fun, and nothing ecomomically sound about that. 

There's nothing "Keynesian" about having taxes and public expenditure, been going on forever.  This term seems thrown around as an insult without understanding what it is.  Certainly isnt what we have today, Keynes advocated paying back all the debt in short order after the economic stimulus had taken effect. 

https://mises.org/library/why-mises-and-not-hayek - Why Mises not Hayek both better ecomic models , but for me Mises wins!

According to Hayek, government is "necessary" to fulfill the following tasks: not merely for "law enforcement" and "defense against external enemies" but "in an advanced society government ought to use its power of raising funds by taxation to provide a number of services which for various reasons cannot be provided, or cannot be provided adequately, by the market." (Because at all times an infinite number of goods and services exist that the market does not provide, Hayek hands government a blank check.)

[Minimalist]

16 minutes ago, HerefordBullyun said:

Its not the only option though as @Minimalist has mentioned a tarrif system could be a solution. The problem is the west doesnt now produce hardly anything now its all done in china. If we produced more goods and services we'd prosper, but we cant becuase we are enslaved in financial economic ponzi scheme. I gaurantee you the tariffs would be a lot cheaper if the mises model were adopted.

All we need is a decentralised energy product (zero-point energy system) that is produced and installed in every household/dwelling. An open-sourced internet system for information and technology. Public health system and infrastructure/domestic system. Thats it. Nothing else matters. Tariff systems would be a perfect solution.

Plus, the economy should be built towards self-efficiency because transactions would indicate reliance in a certain sector. Development in technology would be focused on that sector that is needing credit.

This system is upsides down.

[Martlet]

42 minutes ago, HerefordBullyun said:

Its not the only option though as @Minimalist has mentioned a tarrif system could be a solution. The problem is the west doesnt now produce hardly anything now its all done in china. If we produced more goods and services we'd prosper, but we cant becuase we are enslaved in financial economic ponzi scheme. I gaurantee you the tariffs would be a lot cheaper if the mises model were adopted.

Producing goods domestically or overseas has nothing to do with taxation, and a peculiar conflation of issues. We had tax when we were the manufaturing hub of the world, and those places have taxation of their own. The idea of a tariff to pay for basic services would mean only the well off could afford them and harks back to feudalism. Public goods and quasi-public goods should be paid for by the state, and that necessitates some taxes to pay for them, long established principle by proponents of sound money.   

I see from the quoted Mises text you agree with this too.  All the more odd to make the original point about tax being about economic failure. 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Martlet

[dicker]

My personal experience is to get a good accountant who will keep you out of trouble.

By this, I mean someone who keeps you within the rules, personally and from a business perspective if you have one.

There are lots of government approved ways to reduce tax bills.

Best

Dicker

 

 

[HerefordBullyun]

36 minutes ago, Martlet said:

Producing goods domestically or overseas has nothing to do with taxation, and a peculiar conflation of issues. We had tax when we were the manufaturing hub of the world, and those places have taxation of their own. The idea of a tariff to pay for basic services would mean only the well off could afford them and harks back to feudalism. Public goods and quasi-public goods should be paid for by the state, and that necessitates some taxes to pay for them, long established principle by proponents of sound money.   

I see from the quoted Mises text you agree with this too.  All the more odd to make the original point about tax being about economic failure. 

Id look a bit deeper if I were you.....

https://mises.org/library/tax-destroy

Edited October 20, 2021 by HerefordBullyun

[ZigZag]

1 hour ago, dicker said:

My personal experience is to get a good accountant who will keep you out of trouble.

By this, I mean someone who keeps you within the rules, personally and from a business perspective if you have one.

There are lots of government approved ways to reduce tax bills.

Best

Dicker

 

 

Man after my own heart.

My accountants are the one bill I’m happy to pay every year! For sure they charge me a fair old fee, legally though they likewise create a small fortune in savings that same period. Whether it be general tax breaks, pension contributions etc for the simplicity of handing over my yearly transactions, I get a full breakdown for tax submission a few weeks later, without any stress or head scratching.

A good accountant is worth paying for.

[Rll1288]

8 hours ago, HerefordBullyun said:

Its not the only option though as @Minimalist has mentioned a tarrif system could be a solution. The problem is the west doesnt now produce hardly anything now its all done in china. If we produced more goods and services we'd prosper, but we cant becuase we are enslaved in financial economic ponzi scheme. I gaurantee you the tariffs would be a lot cheaper if the mises model were adopted.

Isn't a tariff a tax by another name 🙂 ... So we put tariffs on the goods we buy and get rid of taxes ... then somehow these tariffs pay for healthcare, roads, etc. ... so milk will have to be £100.00 pound a pint to pay for it hahaha

[kimchi]

I know this is an absolutely crazy idea and will be no doubt mocked accordingly, but how about taxing the Crown which still owns 1/3 world (give or take a few hundred trillion)?

[HerefordBullyun]

24 minutes ago, Rll1288 said:

Isn't a tariff a tax by another name 🙂 ... So we put tariffs on the goods we buy and get rid of taxes ... then somehow these tariffs pay for healthcare, roads, etc. ... so milk will have to be £100.00 pound a pint to pay for it hahaha

The under pinning point, is the economic model. The boom bust Keynesian model is flawed, is it not based on a sound money model, but adapted by people so the few can make a profit at the top, becuase the ones at the top of tree have the purchasing power still, but further down the pyramid (hence why i call it ponzi scheme) that purchasing power is lost. The tariffs or taxes would be significantly be less under the Mises or Hayek economic Model. Its the only way to prosper.  What many dont understand that mainstream economics being taught by educators is based all on Keynesian foundations, because thats the model what the world it operates on.

Austrian ecomonics is more libertarian, but holds the backing on sound money, and negates the bust cycles more.

http://www.economicnoise.com/2010/05/03/mises-vs-keynes/

Edited October 21, 2021 by HerefordBullyun

[Rll1288]

27 minutes ago, kimchi said:

I know this is an absolutely crazy idea and will be no doubt mocked accordingly, but how about taxing the Crown which still owns 1/3 world (give or take a few hundred trillion)?

I didn't know the UK monarchy owed 1/3 of the World... wow and they own trillions of pounds/usd's... me thinks not ... not mocking but whenever taxes are mentioned in this country its always the Crown (monarchy) or 1% highest earners that are mentioned would pay enough so the the rest wouldn't.... It just doesn't add up... not saying they shouldn't pay more... it wouldn't;t pay enough to keep the health service free

Edited October 21, 2021 by Rll1288

[Rll1288]

1 minute ago, HerefordBullyun said:

The under pinning point, is the economic model. The boom bust Keynesian model is flawed, is it not based on a sound money model, but adapted by people so the few can make a profit at the top, becuase the ones at the top of tree have the purchasing power still, but further down the pyramid (hence why i call it ponzi scheme) that purchasing power is lost. The tariffs or taxes would be significantly be less under the Mises or Hayek economic Model. Its the only way to prosper.  What many dont understand that mainstream economics being taught by educators is based all Keynesian foundations, because thats the model what the world it operates on.

Austrian ecomonics is more libertarian, but holds the backing sound money, and negates the bust cycles more.

http://www.economicnoise.com/2010/05/03/mises-vs-keynes/

I agree economics as we know it and been taught for generations is at the point that it must change but will we ever get rid of a Boom / bust cycle? I don't think we will. As long as we have greed we will never have a utopian society where people get only what they need. I mean we are discussing this on a site geared at precious metals. If we had a true economic model that provided for everyone then why would we need to hoard gold and silver 🙂 . I mean everyone moans at Investment Bankers and their greed but do we not need them so as to grow the pensions or investments, we ourselves want in order live in the future? If we could get to the "Star Trek" model where money is irrelevant and we live to enrich ourselves if would need a fundamental shift in our own social being... and I Don't see that happening soon. 

[kimchi]

27 minutes ago, Rll1288 said:

I didn't know the UK monarchy owed 1/3 of the World... wow and they own trillions of pounds/usd's... me thinks not ... not mocking but whenever taxes are mentioned in this country its always the Crown (monarchy) or 1% highest earners that are mentioned would pay enough so the the rest wouldn't.... It just doesn't add up... not saying they shouldn't pay more... it wouldn't;t pay enough to keep the health service free

The Crown =/= the Monarchy.

It's owned through the legal and banking system of the City of London.

[HerefordBullyun]

Watch this video from 4.50

This is the angle I am coming from this man knows - he worked in the financial sector for many years. He mentions about taxes also.

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by HerefordBullyun

[Rll1288]

48 minutes ago, kimchi said:

The Crown =/= the Monarchy.

It's owned through the legal and banking system of the City of London.

Sorry still don't get your point...  Whats owned through the Legal and Banking system?

[Rll1288]

48 minutes ago, HerefordBullyun said:

Watch this video from 4.50

This is the angle I am coming from this man knows - he worked in the financial sector for many years. He mentions about taxes also.

 

Yeah I have watched that before... So Mises and Free Markets... if we do stop interventions and allow for true supply and demand economy based on a free market system... wouldn't we have the potential to see the types of issues we have had through the use of todays social media farce i.e. the frenzy we had recently re petrol shortages? What I mean is both Keynes and Mises were a view based on economies in the early 20th Century. Do both apply now? Free markets are good but we have this new dimension where information can be manipulated through the use of Whispers that can reach millions instantly and create huge waves and extreme movements, which therefore create mini and micro boom/bust cycles 🙂

[Roy]

The trouble is, everyone knows too much nowadays. They know all about economics, the banking system, the welfare state, credit lines, Robin Hood, wallstreetbets et al. when all they need to know is how to have fun.

Look, work for 40 hrs a week, go bingo or darts on a Wednesday and have a couple of pints on a Friday.

Take the kids swimming or the park on a Saturday and have a family lunch followed by football on a Sunday.

Repeat.

Put a little bit away each week and go to Butlins, or Benidorm if you're a manager, in the summer. Maybe hire a caravan in Hunstanton or Newquay, or Whitby if you're from those parts.

Join the Christmas Club in September. 

Why does everything have to be so bloody complicated?!

Edited October 21, 2021 by Roy

[Rll1288]

Totally agree.....

[Cornishfarmer]

Someone tell me if I’m wrong but,    Some people that buy from the royal mint and flip should pay tax on the profit of the coin as it was bought to trade not bought to hold

[Rll1288]

42 minutes ago, Cornishfarmer said:

Someone tell me if I’m wrong but,    Some people that buy from the royal mint and flip should pay tax on the profit of the coin as it was bought to trade not bought to hold

RM coins are generally legal tender coins and do not attract CGT so no you won't pay that tax if you flip or hold. However if you earn an income from doing this then it would be liable to Income tax etc.as any income would. What do we mean by "flipping"? if I bought something today which I believed as would go up in value and sell in a years time... that's still "flipping". Its funny because I have seen many posts about flippers by people who say "It stops true collectors from getting them..." then see a post a few days later when they are selling coins :-). 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Rll1288

[Martlet]

 

4 hours ago, Rll1288 said:

I didn't know the UK monarchy owed 1/3 of the World... 

The Crown lands refered to are the vast stretches of Canada, Australia, coastal area of UK and a few other bits and pieces left over from the commonwealth.  Mostly not economically viable boreal forest or desert, and where they are (forestry or mining), the economic activity is taxed locally.  They are own by the Crown in name, in practice owned and run by those nation's governments. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Martlet

[Rll1288]

Just now, Martlet said:

 

The Crown lands refered to are the vast stretches of Canada, Australia, coastal area of UK and a few other bits and pieces left over from the commonwealth.  Mostly not economically viable boreal forest or desert, and where they are (forestry or mining), the economic activity is taxed.  

Yes, Wiki has a good definition... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crown which shows different connotations of its meaning but generally means functions of government and the civil service, therefore if we tax the Crown we are in fact taxing ourselves ... indirectly haha

[HerefordBullyun]

3 hours ago, Rll1288 said:

Yeah I have watched that before... So Mises and Free Markets... if we do stop interventions and allow for true supply and demand economy based on a free market system... wouldn't we have the potential to see the types of issues we have had through the use of todays social media farce i.e. the frenzy we had recently re petrol shortages? What I mean is both Keynes and Mises were a view based on economies in the early 20th Century. Do both apply now? Free markets are good but we have this new dimension where information can be manipulated through the use of Whispers that can reach millions instantly and create huge waves and extreme movements, which therefore create mini and micro boom/bust cycles 🙂

Well that is down to governmental polcy to ensure thats what happens is the correct thing, small government could control it. Both models are dated I agree but as Mario states. The state should be there to protect the liberties of the free and ensure the rules are adhered to, social media is just another controlling arm of killing said freedoms. Millions of cases of Mental health correlate with social media, its a toxic nasty thing. 

[BackyardBullion]

1 hour ago, Cornishfarmer said:

Someone tell me if I’m wrong but,    Some people that buy from the royal mint and flip should pay tax on the profit of the coin as it was bought to trade not bought to hold

 

23 minutes ago, Rll1288 said:

RM coins are generally legal tender coins and do not attract CGT so no you won't pay that tax if you flip or hold. However if you earn an income from doing this then it would be liable to Income tax etc.as any income would. What do we mean by "flipping"? if I bought something today which I believed as would go up in value and sell in a years time... that's still "flipping". Its funny because I have seen many posts about flippers by people who say "It stops true collectors from getting them..." then see a post a few days later when they are selling coins :-). 

I have posted at length about this kind of activity. 

Google HMRC Badges of trade and if you start to see many of those badges applying (or could HMRC argue the case that they apply) then there is a chance you might get stung by HMRC for trading. 

Its a fine line - but as this thread indicates, HMRC will scour various social media platforms and online market places. 

That also includes this site. I would be very very surprised if the powers that be are not watching this site and some of the sellers here. 

[HerefordBullyun]

3 hours ago, Roy said:

The trouble is, everyone knows too much nowadays. They know all about economics, the banking system, the welfare state, credit lines, Robin Hood, wallstreetbets et al. when all they need to know is how to have fun.

Look, work for 40 hrs a week, go bingo or darts on a Wednesday and have a couple of pints on a Friday.

Take the kids swimming or the park on a Saturday and have a family lunch followed by football on a Sunday.

Repeat.

Put a little bit away each week and go to Butlins, or Benidorm if you're a manager, in the summer. Maybe hire a caravan in Hunstanton or Newquay, or Whitby if you're from those parts.

Join the Christmas Club in September. 

Why does everything have to be so bloody complicated?!

Thats the beauty of the human race Roy, we all born to be different. part of lifes rich and varied tapestry. 

[Martlet]

4 minutes ago, HerefordBullyun said:

Well that is down to governmental polcy to ensure thats what happens is the correct thing, small government could control it. Both models are dated I agree but as Mario states. The state should be there to protect the liberties of the free and ensure the rules are adhered to, social media is just another controlling arm of killing said freedoms. Millions of cases of Mental health correlate with social media, its a toxic nasty thing. 

Social media is there because free market made it so and people want to use it.  Can't have government intervening, controling what people post or how the data is used.