Red v Yellow Colour Gold Sovereigns - Silver v Copper Alloy Content

[sovereignsteve]

5 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

Humans were probably aware of it about 40,000 years B.C.

Nice article.

All the info about sovereigns and the bit that drew my attention was the first line. I am interested to know where that information came from and how true it is likely to be?

[Hunter87]

12 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

Nice article.

All the info about sovereigns and the bit that drew my attention was the first line. I am interested to know where that information came from and how true it is likely to be?

I’d be interested to know this too. 

[LawrenceChard]

12 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

Nice article.

All the info about sovereigns and the bit that drew my attention was the first line. I am interested to know where that information came from and how true it is likely to be?

Thanks.

If by "the first line" you mean: "In the beginning there was gold", that was my poetic license, borrowing on a line from the Bible.

Some of history came from:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold

Including the 40,000 years. Although I am aware of many errors in Wikipedia, it does include references. I do not always check these, it depends on whether it is consistent with my existing knowledge.

"Historically, gold coins have contained small amounts of silver, which has helped retain a colour similar to pure gold." is mine, garnered from multiple sources over many years.

I would encourage anyone to "read around". I often look something up online, including Wikipedia, then end up reading a dozen or more linked pages. 

If anyone is in any doubt about accuracy, they can always check for themselves, but I am quite happy to answer any specific points, or to be challenged on them.

[StackemHigh]

13 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

I would encourage anyone to "read around". I often look something up online, including Wikipedia, then end up reading a dozen or more linked pages. 

 

Dear god Mr @LawrenceChard read around you reading harlot!

[LawrenceChard]

Just now, StackemHigh said:

Dear god Mr @LawrenceChard read around you reading harlot!

But sometimes I sleep! 😎

[RDHC]

17 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

That's a very well made point!

Kind of you to say so. Thank you. And thank you for all your efforts to get the MInt to see sense on this matter. I hope we shall all be further in your debt one day when it changes its ratio(s) of alloy for sovereigns.

[sovereignsteve]

2 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

If by "the first line" you mean: "In the beginning there was gold", that was my poetic license, borrowing on a line from the Bible.

Some of history came from:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold

Including the 40,000 years.

My statement about the first sentence was perhaps a little inaccurate although I did quote the line I was referring to "........40,000 years"

I don't wish to be pedantic or picky but the only reference I can see to 40,000 BC years in the Wiki article is " Small amounts of natural gold have been found in Spanish caves used during the late Paleolithic period, c. 40,000 BC, which is a far cry from showing "Humans were probably aware of it" at that time 😉

This is taken from  an article in Gold-Eagle, The History of Gold by I.M. Vronsky in 1997 but goes on to say that experts disagree when gold was first used, the earliest date mentioned being 6000 BC.

This article, incidently, isn't referenced. 😁

[Britannia47]

Another Yellow v Red comparison - this time the MMTC-PAMP  Indian Sovereign. Which one do you prefer? For me its no contest. The original 1918 George V is a stunner - Its the right colour for a start! 

Did the Swiss/Indian concern not realise that the 100th anniversary in 2018  deserved a special mint mark? Apparently not. Reinstating the helmet 'streamer' would have been a good idea as well.

They just don't make 'em like they used to! 

 

[LawrenceChard]

Making Numismatic History – The Rare Reverse Design Changes of The Sovereign

The Royal Mint recently featured a page about the 5 different major single year reverse designs from the years 1989, 2002, 2005, 2012, and 2022.

They used this image:

Which shows them all as a very strange and unrealist reddish colour, which is not the same colour as the actual sovereigns.

I asked Doug to produce our improved version with accurate calibrated colours. This was our result, although he has also included the 2017 Pistrucci 1817 bicentenary coin:

The original Royal Mint image I saw also included the 1817, and I was struck strongly by the colour difference between the 1817 and all the others, which is why I requested our own version. When I came to add this post, I could not find the original RM image which set me off. I think I have already shown it in a TSF thread, but cant find that either!

 

 

[Simmoleon]

Love to know who in the mint thinks the red-ish colour looks better than yellow 🤷‍♂️

[Arganto]

3 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

Which shows them all as a very strange and unrealist reddish colour

The RM image looks like a collection of special release pennies. Chards' looks like a collection of...gold coins...🤔

[RDHC]

I do not understand how the 2022 sovereign has apparently escaped the dreadful pink fate of other modern sovereigns, or are my eyes playing tricks on me?  Can Lawrence explain perhaps?

[SemolinaPilchard]

6 hours ago, RDHC said:

I do not understand how the 2022 sovereign has apparently escaped the dreadful pink fate of other modern sovereigns, or are my eyes playing tricks on me?  Can Lawrence explain perhaps?

I can answer that for you as I took the image(s).  LC is away ski-ing soon and may not get the chance to see this.

We noticed the RM image (which I shall try and link below) and LC wanted our accurately colour balanced version doing version doing.

I took all the images separately using same lighting (no adjustment made at all to strobe power/aperture or speed).  I then colour balanced them all using the same neutral coloured spot on background I shot on (white paper with flash underneath - I drew a small square to ensure I took the white balance from same neutral shade).  The only editing I did was to remove background and place on white AND had also to adjust the luminosity only - some coins come up darker than others - I think this may be due to the design, density of metal, height of rim or something else I havn't sussed out yet- so just a levels adjustment to get them to roughly the same luminosity.

I agree - the new 2022 does look a BIT more golden but it's still firmly on the red scale, I think.  Especially when you look at the 1817

Now why the Royal Mint adds a magenta colour overlay is really baffling - the coins look nothing like that.  With the amount they sell I think there will be a fair few of their customers expecting to get a Magenta coloured coin and I am puzzled how nobody has (it seems) contacted Trading Standards.      

Here is the link to their image (or rather a youtube screengrab)

Apologies for the silly forum name - seemed good at the time.

Doug

Edited November 21, 2021 by SemolinaPilchard
typo

[RDHC]

5 hours ago, SemolinaPilchard said:

I can answer that for you as I took the image(s).  LC is away ski-ing soon and may not get the chance to see this.

We noticed the RM image (which I shall try and link below) and LC wanted our accurately colour balanced version doing version doing.

I took all the images separately using same lighting (no adjustment made at all to strobe power/aperture or speed).  I then colour balanced them all using the same neutral coloured spot on background I shot on (white paper with flash underneath - I drew a small square to ensure I took the white balance from same neutral shade).  The only editing I did was to remove background and place on white AND had also to adjust the luminosity only - some coins come up darker than others - I think this may be due to the design, density of metal, height of rim or something else I havn't sussed out yet- so just a levels adjustment to get them to roughly the same luminosity.

I agree - the new 2022 does look a BIT more golden but it's still firmly on the red scale, I think.  Especially when you look at the 1817

Now why the Royal Mint adds a magenta colour overlay is really baffling - the coins look nothing like that.  With the amount they sell I think there will be a fair few of their customers expecting to get a Magenta coloured coin and I am puzzled how nobody has (it seems) contacted Trading Standards.      

Here is the link to their image (or rather a youtube screengrab)

Apologies for the silly forum name - seemed good at the time.

Doug

Thank you, Doug. And I rather like your pseudonym!

[LawrenceChard]

11 hours ago, SemolinaPilchard said:

I can answer that for you as I took the image(s).  LC is away ski-ing soon and may not get the chance to see this.

We noticed the RM image (which I shall try and link below) and LC wanted our accurately colour balanced version doing version doing.

I took all the images separately using same lighting (no adjustment made at all to strobe power/aperture or speed).  I then colour balanced them all using the same neutral coloured spot on background I shot on (white paper with flash underneath - I drew a small square to ensure I took the white balance from same neutral shade).  The only editing I did was to remove background and place on white AND had also to adjust the luminosity only - some coins come up darker than others - I think this may be due to the design, density of metal, height of rim or something else I havn't sussed out yet- so just a levels adjustment to get them to roughly the same luminosity.

I agree - the new 2022 does look a BIT more golden but it's still firmly on the red scale, I think.  Especially when you look at the 1817

Now why the Royal Mint adds a magenta colour overlay is really baffling - the coins look nothing like that.  With the amount they sell I think there will be a fair few of their customers expecting to get a Magenta coloured coin and I am puzzled how nobody has (it seems) contacted Trading Standards.      

Here is the link to their image (or rather a youtube screengrab)

Apologies for the silly forum name - seemed good at the time.

Doug

 

5 hours ago, RDHC said:

Thank you, Doug. And I rather like your pseudonym!

Now Doug's secret alter ego has been revealed, as have his age and musical tastes.

Thanks Doug!

I have not quite gone yet, maybe Tuesday.

I don't think we have yet Niton tested any of the 2022 Gold sovereign range coins; I do retain some trust and respect for the RM, but I or someone will test one soon, and also post the results. My expectation is Gold 917 ppt, Copper 83 ppt.

The video screenshot is the image I was hunting for. Can we capture it without the "play" symbol?

 

 

[Zhorro]

5 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

The video screenshot is the image I was hunting for. Can we capture it without the "play" symbol?

Is this what you wanted?

[LawrenceChard]

4 minutes ago, Zhorro said:

Is this what you wanted?

Exactly!

Thanks.

[LawrenceChard]

On 10/10/2021 at 08:16, dicker said:

Agree completely @LawrenceChard.  I genuinely think the Bullion Sovereign would be purchased by more people if it was gold in colour and had a better strike.  
 

Best

Dicker

In which case, the RM could sub-contract production to the Perth Mint, which would fix everything.

😎

[dicker]

3 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

In which case, the RM could sub-contract production to the Perth Mint, which would fix everything.

😎

Including quality. Perhaps you have different experience as a dealer but The PM have pretty good quality.

[LawrenceChard]

1 minute ago, dicker said:

Including quality. Perhaps you have different experience as a dealer but The PM have pretty good quality.

Yes, indeed.

We like just about everything about the Perth Mint, including the fact that it is possible to have conversations with them.

😎

[dicker]

4 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Yes, indeed.

We like just about everything about the Perth Mint, including the fact that it is possible to have conversations with them.

😎

They even take calls from “punters” like me!

On my last visit pre-Covid, there was a dusty old prospector who had rocked up selling some of his finds.  Outstanding place to visit.  

[Oddjob]

Whilst PM make their own limited edition sov (which I'm not overly attracted to but great quality), they'd find a keen market & demand level here in Aust as any bullion / coin imports into Australia not 999/9999 for Au/Ag over AUD1.0k get hit with GST (read VAT)....thus we'd get cheaper sovs but I think PM would then crank up the price regardless.

[LawrenceChard]

2 minutes ago, dicker said:

They even take calls from “punters” like me!

On my last visit pre-Covid, there was a dusty old prospector who had rocked up selling some of his finds.  Outstanding place to visit.  

Yes, I have been intending to go.

Jane also wants to visit New Zealand, but during the ski season.

I said we could visit Perth while nearby (!) in NZ, or vice versa. 

I am aware that nearness is relative.

😎

[HerefordBullyun]

1 minute ago, LawrenceChard said:

Yes, I have been intending to go.

Jane also wants to visit New Zealand, but during the ski season.

I said we could visit Perth while nearby (!) in NZ, or vice versa. 

I am aware that nearness is relative.

😎

NZ awesome place my No1 place in the world Ive visted No2 Canada No3 Norway

[dicker]

5 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Yes, I have been intending to go.

Jane also wants to visit New Zealand, but during the ski season.

I said we could visit Perth while nearby (!) in NZ, or vice versa. 

I am aware that nearness is relative.

😎

Both are very worth visiting.  There a a fair number of coin dealers extremely close to the PM that often have interesting coins (lots of new issues but often some of the rare branch mint Half Sovereigns).