Disappearing 1oz gold Queen's Beasts?

[RDHC]

I can't afford the 1oz coins, but I thought it be nice to keep an eye on them for the future, so I have been tracking their prices on several websites over the last few weeks. To my dismay, several examples have disappeared despite absolutely premium prices, so I deduce that they existed in very, very limited quantities, perhaps only one of each coin. I would instance Apmex, where the Dragon and the Griffin are no longer available, or Bullionstar, where the Lion (the royal one) no longer features. I'm no expert, but I would guess that these particularly dramatic designs are probably the three most popular beasts, so perhaps it is no surprise. Nonetheless, not good news for those of us that missed the boat starting in 2016. Nothing much second hand on ebay either, so far as I can see.

Comments anyone?

[Silverman2U]

1 hour ago, rdhcustance said:

I can't afford the 1oz coins, but I thought it be nice to keep an eye on them for the future, so I have been tracking their prices on several websites over the last few weeks. To my dismay, several examples have disappeared despite absolutely premium prices, so I deduce that they existed in very, very limited quantities, perhaps only one of each coin. I would instance Apmex, where the Dragon and the Griffin are no longer available, or Bullionstar, where the Lion (the royal one) no longer features. I'm no expert, but I would guess that these particularly dramatic designs are probably the three most popular beasts, so perhaps it is no surprise. Nonetheless, not good news for those of us that missed the boat starting in 2016. Nothing much second hand on ebay either, so far as I can see.

Comments anyone?

Saw a couple bullion grade QB 1oz pop on the forum the other day.  

[RDHC]

5 minutes ago, Silverman2U said:

Saw a couple bullion grade QB 1oz pop on the forum the other day.  

Thank you. That's encouraging. Which part of the forum, please? I'm not over-familiar with the lay-out.

[stackerp5]

39 minutes ago, rdhcustance said:

Thank you. That's encouraging. Which part of the forum, please? I'm not over-familiar with the lay-out.

Buy and Sell section of the forum  

[Spanishsilver]

I sold a 1oz gold queens beasts white horse of Hanover a few days ago at £1420 and someone else sold two white Lion of Mortimer 1oz gold queens beasts for around £1350 each but they didn’t stay for sale long just the other day so they do pop up still I remember a griffin selling on another group for £1650 a couple of weeks ago just keep an eye out and be ready to pull the trigger because when they are competitively priced they sell fast 😊

[Midasfrog]

There is a beautiful Dragon 1oz gold up for sale on the forum cant remember who the seller is though 😂 

Most collectors will keep the beasts in their collections once held 👍

[Midasfrog]

1 hour ago, rdhcustance said:

Thank you. That's encouraging. Which part of the forum, please? I'm not over-familiar with the lay-out.

What beasts are you looking for and what prices are you hoping to pick them up for ?

[Spanishsilver]

I’m certainly keeping my full set of 11 queens beasts 😉 or is it 10+1 😆

[dicker]

I think they do sell well at dealers even at high prices.  This is especially as people fill holes in their sets and others start collecting the set and work backward!

Keep watching because QB’s do come up both here and on eBay and at dealers   

Best

Dicker

 

[RDHC]

Thank you all. Very helpful. Trouble is, as I said, I don't have the funds at present, so I was just doing some scouting, but I will now look out as you suggest.

Roger

[RDHC]

10 hours ago, Midasfrog said:

What beasts are you looking for and what prices are you hoping to pick them up for ?

It would take years for me and my limited purse to buy the whole series, so I think I would be looking for the Lion and the Griffin principally, followed by the Dragon, and maybe the Yale - such a curious creature even by mythological standards, and rather delightful in its own ugly way, at least to my eyes.

Or perhaps I should go for the gold 1/4 oz beasts, despite their even higher premiums?

What would members advise?

[FlorinCollector]

I would say if you decide to go for the quarter ounce they are also nice but there is no quarter completer. So would it feel complete to you?

[Midasfrog]

34 minutes ago, rdhcustance said:

It would take years for me and my limited purse to buy the whole series, so I think I would be looking for the Lion and the Griffin principally, followed by the Dragon, and maybe the Yale - such a curious creature even by mythological standards, and rather delightful in its own ugly way, at least to my eyes.

Or perhaps I should go for the gold 1/4 oz beasts, despite their even higher premiums?

What would members advise?

I would purchase the beasts that are still currently available in 1/4 or 1oz depending which size you decide to collect. These will have lower premiums at the moment but the premium will increase when production has stopped or when no longer available at dealers.

Buy as many as you can now and use the duplicates to swap for earlier beasts with members on the Forum 👍

[RDHC]

2 hours ago, Midasfrog said:

I would purchase the beasts that are still currently available in 1/4 or 1oz depending which size you decide to collect. These will have lower premiums at the moment but the premium will increase when production has stopped or when no longer available at dealers.

Buy as many as you can now and use the duplicates to swap for earlier beasts with members on the Forum 👍

That sounds like good advice. Thank you.

[RDHC]

2 hours ago, FlorinCollector said:

I would say if you decide to go for the quarter ounce they are also nice but there is no quarter completer. So would it feel complete to you?

Good point. Thank you. I have managed to buy the 1oz completer, which is beautiful and striking, and so I will probably stick with the 1oz ones, and just be content with fewer of them.

[LawrenceChard]

17 hours ago, rdhcustance said:

I can't afford the 1oz coins, but I thought it be nice to keep an eye on them for the future, so I have been tracking their prices on several websites over the last few weeks. To my dismay, several examples have disappeared despite absolutely premium prices, so I deduce that they existed in very, very limited quantities, perhaps only one of each coin. I would instance Apmex, where the Dragon and the Griffin are no longer available, or Bullionstar, where the Lion (the royal one) no longer features. I'm no expert, but I would guess that these particularly dramatic designs are probably the three most popular beasts, so perhaps it is no surprise. Nonetheless, not good news for those of us that missed the boat starting in 2016. Nothing much second hand on ebay either, so far as I can see.

Comments anyone?

That's quite interesting.

I don't recall any of the one ounce gold bullion Queen's Beasts coins being very popular. This was probably because the Royal Mint treated them as a premium bullion product, asking slightly higher premiums for them, also using a number of "exclusive" distribution deals in various geographic regions.

The market for bullion coins is very competitive, and highly price sensitive. Quite sensibly, if someone is investing in gold, it is right to buy at the lowest premium (within reason), so if a mint releases a premium edition, it might sell to semi-collectors in singles, but not to serious investors in quantity. The UK  market is slightly distorted by the CGT exemption for sterling, so some UK investors are more accepting of ths higher premiums.

Somewhat perversely, but logically enough, some of the premium issues could end up being good investments because of the stronger secondary market demand.

The popularity of the Completer bullion coin had undoubtedly rekindled increased interest in the original 10 beast coins. As these only sold in limited volumes, they are not easy to source in any quantity.

An example of the "Law of Unintended Consequences".

 

[RDHC]

2 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

That's quite interesting.

I don't recall any of the one ounce gold bullion Queen's Beasts coins being very popular. This was probably because the Royal Mint treated them as a premium bullion product, asking slightly higher premiums for them, also using a number of "exclusive" distribution deals in various geographic regions.

The market for bullion coins is very competitive, and highly price sensitive. Quite sensibly, if someone is investing in gold, it is right to buy at the lowest premium (within reason), so if a mint releases a premium edition, it might sell to semi-collectors in singles, but not to serious investors in quantity. The UK  market is slightly distorted by the CGT exemption for sterling, so some UK investors are more accepting of ths higher premiums.

Somewhat perversely, but logically enough, some of the premium issues could end up being good investments because of the stronger secondary market demand.

The popularity of the Completer bullion coin had undoubtedly rekindled increased interest in the original 10 beast coins. As these only sold in limited volumes, they are not easy to source in any quantity.

An example of the "Law of Unintended Consequences".

 

Thank you for that long, interesting, and helpful reply.

If I understand you correctly, you think that the beasts series might be a good investment in the long run, not that you can be expected to have a crystal ball and we must all make up our own minds in buying these expensive coins. From my own, vastly less experienced stand point, I think that they have a good chance of that. They strike me as by far the best of all the special issues from the Mint, except for Una and the Lion, which I know little about. That is because I think the designs by Jody Clark are so impressive and apt. I also like his royal head  best of all the Elizabeth II series and reckon it stands comparison with Wyon's famous young Victoria head. Just my humble opinions. I wonder what others think?

 

[Robda1986]

Good luck with the dragon I don't think the premium will ever fall on that 1 

[LawrenceChard]

3 hours ago, rdhcustance said:

Thank you for that long, interesting, and helpful reply.

If I understand you correctly, you think that the beasts series might be a good investment in the long run, not that you can be expected to have a crystal ball and we must all make up our own minds in buying these expensive coins. From my own, vastly less experienced stand point, I think that they have a good chance of that. They strike me as by far the best of all the special issues from the Mint, except for Una and the Lion, which I know little about. That is because I think the designs by Jody Clark are so impressive and apt. I also like his royal head  best of all the Elizabeth II series and reckon it stands comparison with Wyon's famous young Victoria head. Just my humble opinions. I wonder what others think?

 

That was a short reply by my usual standards!

"Good investment in the long run..." Better than most people could have expected, in terms of premium retention.

There is always the aspect of aesthetic enjoyment, as opposed to purely financial return. Of course, you can also get this from silver versions instead of gold.

 

[kimchi]

8 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

The market for bullion coins is very competitive, and highly price sensitive. Quite sensibly, if someone is investing in gold, it is right to buy at the lowest premium (within reason), so if a mint releases a premium edition, it might sell to semi-collectors in singles, but not to serious investors in quantity.

For me I'd like to think that if I was after bullion around the time of perhaps the first four or five releases (I don't know when the series caught on really, especially in terms of being reflected more in the premium) I'd have gone for Beasts rather than Brits, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. A Valiant for example (no idea if there is a gold one)...no - I'd rather have a much more recognisable Brit.

I think the Completers have a very reasonable premium really compared to e.g. Brits, and for a much nicer coin, what do you think Lawrence? If you are in the market for bullion and can afford to watch the prices over a few weeks and strike at the right time it's been possible to buy Completers (at some points) at a pretty similar price to Brits (at others ofc).

 

[LawrenceChard]

5 minutes ago, kimchi said:

For me I'd like to think that if I was after bullion around the time of perhaps the first four or five releases (I don't know when the series caught on really, especially in terms of being reflected more in the premium) I'd have gone for Beasts rather than Brits, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. A Valiant for example (no idea if there is a gold one)...no - I'd rather have a much more recognisable Brit.

I think the Completers have a very reasonable premium really compared to e.g. Brits, and for a much nicer coin, what do you think Lawrence? If you are in the market for bullion and can afford to watch the prices over a few weeks and strike at the right time it's been possible to buy Completers (at some points) at a pretty similar price to Brits (at others ofc).

 

I agree that the QB Completers are an attractive coin, but the premium on new ones is higher than for Britannias, therefore "big" customers tend to buy gold Britannias in bulk, whereas not many of our customers buy gold Completers in large quantities.

If you can get QBs at the same premium as Britannias, it makes sense to buy the QBs, of any of the 11 designs.

[kimchi]

2 hours ago, LawrenceChard said:

I agree that the QB Completers are an attractive coin, but the premium on new ones is higher than for Britannias, therefore "big" customers tend to buy gold Britannias in bulk, whereas not many of our customers buy gold Completers in large quantities.

If you can get QBs at the same premium as Britannias, it makes sense to buy the QBs, of any of the 11 designs.

Any insight or (rough!) memories of what the premiums on the early ones were compared to now, or when things 'took off'? On the silver 2oz e.g. I'd say it was after the Griffin had sold out and also after the following two weren't so well received (could be wrong!). I think premiums were pretty favourable on e.g. the 1/4 bullion for the first three or four? I have the Lion and Griffin bullion in that size and it was cheap bullion with a speculative hope/spidey sense from the clever ones iirc - certainly for what I paid after being recommended them.

[westminstrel]

On 17/07/2021 at 18:55, rdhcustance said:

the Yale - such a curious creature even by mythological standards, and rather delightful in its own ugly way, at least to my eyes.

You and me both. I find the Yale rather alluring. 😏

Edited July 18, 2021 by westminstrel

[LawrenceChard]

On 17/07/2021 at 15:19, LawrenceChard said:

That's quite interesting.

I don't recall any of the one ounce gold bullion Queen's Beasts coins being very popular. This was probably because the Royal Mint treated them as a premium bullion product, asking slightly higher premiums for them, also using a number of "exclusive" distribution deals in various geographic regions.

The market for bullion coins is very competitive, and highly price sensitive. Quite sensibly, if someone is investing in gold, it is right to buy at the lowest premium (within reason), so if a mint releases a premium edition, it might sell to semi-collectors in singles, but not to serious investors in quantity. The UK  market is slightly distorted by the CGT exemption for sterling, so some UK investors are more accepting of ths higher premiums.

Somewhat perversely, but logically enough, some of the premium issues could end up being good investments because of the stronger secondary market demand.

The popularity of the Completer bullion coin had undoubtedly rekindled increased interest in the original 10 beast coins. As these only sold in limited volumes, they are not easy to source in any quantity.

An example of the "Law of Unintended Consequences".

 

Partly as an update, and partly because some TSF members were voicing concern a month or two ago, about whether any more one ounce gold bullion QB Completers would be produced, and reach the UK market, I asked for some "bulk" photos. These got forgotten a few times because we have been busy, but finally managed to get some shots:

A stack of 100, all actually very carefully placed to avoid damage, even though it looks like a casual stack.

And...

A partial failure:

This was intended to be a 10 x 10 grid of them.

We could have been lazy, just laid them on a flat surface, and taken one shot, but Doug likes to do things right, so he and a colleague set out to photograph 100 different coins individually, then add them, in Photoshop, to one single composite image.

Adobe Photoshop is quite resource hungry, and started metaphorically groaning and complaining as the file size grew, so Doug started reducing the file size as he went along, but this is as far as he got, before Adobe downed tools and went home sulking. Tomorrow he is going to try again. He will probably have to create a larger "scratch disk", probably on a PC with a large SSD drive.

This helps to explain why there is an obvious blank area on the canvas. 53 down, 47 to go! 😎

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by LawrenceChard

[TommyTwoShots]

15 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Partly as an update, and partly because some TSF members were voicing concern a month or two ago, about whether any more one ounce gold bullion QB Completers would be produced, and reach the UK market, I asked for some "bulk" photos. These got forgotten a few times because we have been busy, but finally managed to get some shots:

A stack of 100, all actually very carefully placed to avoid damage, even though it looks like a casual stack.

And...

A partial failure:

This was intended to be a 10 x 10 grid of them.

We could have been lazy, just laid them on a flat surface, and taken one shot, but Doug likes to do things right, so he and a colleague set out to photograph 100 different coins individually, then add them, in Photoshop, to one single composite image.

Adobe Photoshop is quite resource hungry, and started metaphorically groaning and complaining as the file size grew, so Doug started reducing the file size as he went along, but this is as far as he got, before Adobe downed tools and went home sulking. Tomorrow he is going to try again. He will probably have to create a larger "scratch disk", probably on a PC with a large SSD drive.

This helps to explain why there is an obvious blank area on the canvas. 53 down, 47 to go! 😎

 

That’s an awful lot of completer coins for your personal collection mr chard. I suspect you would be able to build a London sized house with your gold collection? 😂