Sovereign Errors, Overdates and Varieties

[Booky586]

11 minutes ago, dicker said:

So I have seen one for sale previously. But only one.

I hope you were the lucky buyer 😃

[1853DEE]

1 hour ago, Booky586 said:

Having done some scouring around for information there's little out there. There are no entries for it in "The Gold Sovereign" or Spink "Coins of England and the UK". I've searched for previous sales at "The Coin Cabinet" and "London Coins" and can't find any record of this error passing through there either. NGC and PCGS don't have any entries that I can find in their databases. The Bentley Collection Auction had one for sale which sold for £920, over 10 years ago:

On the All Gold Coins website it states: "Value wise I would expect the 'DEE' sovereign to be a minimum of £1000 in anything above Fine with £2000 more likely for a nice strong VF, and very rare with few examples known."

https://www.allgoldcoins.co.uk/pages/18-the-queen-victoria-shield-reverse-sovereign-1850-59

You've got a very desirable coin and seemingly very rare.

Booky586 Thanks very much for having a look and sending me, i am finding this all very interesting and what a great forum this is!

[Booky586]

It's a pleasure and your welcome, I hope you enjoy the rest of the forum!

[shawy2510]

Couple of new ones for me to arrive soon.

 

[paulmerton]

2 minutes ago, shawy2510 said:

Couple of new ones for me to arrive soon.

 

I recognise the one from Chards  I had been watching it for ages waiting for the right price haha.

[shawy2510]

30 minutes ago, paulmerton said:

I recognise the one from Chards  I had been watching it for ages waiting for the right price haha.

Yeah, it was £485ish which I thought was pretty decent & the raw coin is around the same price I won in an auction yesterday.

[AndrewSL76]

On 16/08/2023 at 18:50, dicker said:

So I have seen one for sale previously. But only one.  

There will not be any official numbers - because they were accidents.  But it is relatively rare coin. 

Having said that, there are a number of errors that are not in Marsh, are spectacular and very rare.   

There is a incuse 1853 (Marsh states this is an R2 coin) in the current Coin Cabinet auction (auction 90 - the 6% buyer’s premium auctio ). It is currently below the price of the two raised WW 1853s which is curious (even though they are graded!).

[AndrewSL76]

There is a very rare (Marsh R4) 1848/7 Half Sovereign in the Coin Cabinet’s premium auction. Lot 13. Graded with PCGS. Lovely rare overdate. 

 

[Foster88]

@AndrewSL76 did you see the R5 sovereign in the latest CC sale?

Somebody got a bargain, albeit a worn bargain.

 

[AndrewSL76]

Cheers @Foster88 I did see this! I am a keen viewer of their auctions. They always have lovely items and the sales are normally good value. I don’t collect Australian coins so was not interested in this. I also only collect items outside of my interest where there is a clear case for investment and enough information to understand what I am buying!

Did you buy this worn bargain?! 

Cheers!

Edited August 31, 2023 by AndrewSL76

[Foster88]

15 hours ago, AndrewSL76 said:

Cheers @Foster88 I did see this! I am a keen viewer of their auctions. They always have lovely items and the sales are normally good value. I don’t collect Australian coins so was not interested in this. I also only collect items outside of my interest where there is a clear case for investment and enough information to understand what I am buying!

Did you buy this worn bargain?! 

Cheers!

I didn’t buy it or bid on it, it was the Marsh R5 rating that got my attention.

It is quite worn but I still feel that someone got a bargain with it paying £380 plus commission and delivery.

[Booky586]

There's been a few lamination errors posted recently but I'm unfamiliar with this type of error. Here's a 1926SA half sovereign, there's a few marks on the obverse (beard and neck). Would you think this is a lamination fault?

[dicker]

1 hour ago, Booky586 said:

There's been a few lamination errors posted recently but I'm unfamiliar with this type of error. Here's a 1926SA half sovereign, there's a few marks on the obverse (beard and neck). Would you think this is a lamination fault?

Nice photos.  It’s not like any lamination errors that I have seen.  Possibly something else at work?

[paulmerton]

4 hours ago, Booky586 said:

There's been a few lamination errors posted recently but I'm unfamiliar with this type of error. Here's a 1926SA half sovereign, there's a few marks on the obverse (beard and neck). Would you think this is a lamination fault?

Could have been a gouge taken out of the blank prior to striking.

[Booky586]

10 hours ago, paulmerton said:

Could have been a gouge taken out of the blank prior to striking.

Yes, could be. It looks like the marks were in the blank and not made after striking.

[Spyder]

Just pick this up today. A little more worn then I would prefer, but it is rated rare 1858 Half. It the first year to have the dot in the corner of the top lions.

Strange how when coin wears, the A Letters almost become a solid triangle. Could understand if someone hammered the coin at those points, but just wear seems strange.

Edited September 10, 2023 by Spyder

[Spyder]

On 06/09/2023 at 16:10, Spyder said:

Just pick this up today. A little more worn then I would prefer, but it is rated rare 1858 Half. It the first year to have the dot in the corner of the top lions.

Strange how when coin wears, the A Letters almost become a solid triangle. Could understand if someone hammered the coin at those points, but just wear seems strange.

Having looked at this coin a little closer, I have a feeling that this is the Type 1A  with Obverse 1 with the smaller bust and no dot.  I think this makes it more rare than the later ones with the dot. 

Can any other experts confirm this

[Divmad]

Is this non-alignment of the obverse image with the reverse, inside a slabbed sovereign example, considered a fault that detracts from its value and collector appeal, or a sought-after error?

https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/6330660-004/64/

 

[paulmerton]

2 minutes ago, Divmad said:

Is this non-alignment of the obverse image with the reverse, inside a slabbed sovereign example, considered a fault that detracts from its value and collector appeal, or a sought-after error?

https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/6330660-004/64/

 

It looks like a rotation error to me, sufficient enough to get the MINT ERROR designation from NGC, if that had been asked for.

[dicker]

I would buy this coin, and I wouldn’t expect it to be cheap!

[drakesterling]

11 hours ago, Divmad said:

Is this non-alignment of the obverse image with the reverse, inside a slabbed sovereign example, considered a fault that detracts from its value and collector appeal, or a sought-after error?

https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/6330660-004/64/

 

Small upsets like these happen frequently, especially amongst GV. It's the larger upsets (greater than 90 degrees) that are collectable. Here's one with a 180 degree upset:

https://www.drakesterling.com/news/post/pcgs-graded-sovereign-from-1872-m-with-medallic-die-alignment

[dicker]

19 hours ago, drakesterling said:

Small upsets like these happen frequently, especially amongst GV. It's the larger upsets (greater than 90 degrees) that are collectable. Here's one with a 180 degree upset:

https://www.drakesterling.com/news/post/pcgs-graded-sovereign-from-1872-m-with-medallic-die-alignment

Very nice indeed. 

[Divmad]

On 17/09/2023 at 13:06, dicker said:

I would buy this coin, and I wouldn’t expect it to be cheap!

It sold today at auction for £590 + postage.

[ZRPMs]

I've been going through my half's. Only looked at a few so far. Not much of note There is something around the 1817 

There is a Jubilee head 1893, mintage of 186,218 but only 4.2% of this are the Jubilee head. No rarity rating but cant be too common. and an 1849 down in the book as rare. There is an 1879 but its quite worn. Not sure if its a mint mark of Sydney on the back making it Scarce or die 8 which would make it an R4. It's most likely a Sydney mint mark though.  

[Sovhead]

On 25/08/2023 at 15:40, shawy2510 said:

Couple of new ones for me to arrive soon.

 

What does “reverse struck thru” mean? what am I not seeing here?

I’m learning btw not trying to be a smart erse.