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Sovereign Errors, Overdates and Varieties


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This thread has been created for anyone with a Sovereign overdate, variation or error etc who would like to ask questions or have them checked out by other forum members. If you are asking for ad

So, sorting through a % of my Sydney only shields and found this new discovery 1875S - 1 over inverted 1 Something also to note is that this is on the raised W.W. variety so rarer in itself.

https://sites.google.com/view/thepettyhoard/the-indian-sovereigns This link shows the mintage list of all Indian I mintmark sovereigns. Apologies if previously posted beforehand.

Posted Images

If half sovs can be included, may I ask the gathered to help me decide which Marsh number the attached belong with? I wouldn't look in Spink, it doesn't seem to feature there.

I had a thread a while back and Sovereignsteve gave some useful direction, which I appreciated, but I'm still a bit mixed up.

I'll not say any more, it would be better to let you decide, I have my opinion and would like to test it.

I realise it doesn't completely fit the OP bill, but as I find contradictory material in the text I thought it might help clear it up.

 

1880obv.JPG

1880rev.JPG

Edited by Sovsaver
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18 hours ago, Sovsaver said:

If half sovs can be included, may I ask the gathered to help me decide which Marsh number the attached belong with? I wouldn't look in Spink, it doesn't seem to feature there.

I had a thread a while back and Sovereignsteve gave some useful direction, which I appreciated, but I'm still a bit mixed up.

I'll not say any more, it would be better to let you decide, I have my opinion and would like to test it.

I realise it doesn't completely fit the OP bill, but as I find contradictory material in the text I thought it might help clear it up.

I wish I personally had more half sovereigns to compare and database but unfortunately I don't, so can only go by Marsh and others.

What exactly is your query though, as I see it, it's Marsh 455, Type 1B?

From the pictures it looks like it may be a 8/7 in date, and I'm not sure if it's common for the shield to encroach on the die number like that, again I've not seen enough pieces and the ones I do have are in storage.

The Gold Sovereign

The Gold Sovereign aims to provide the most complete online resource to collectors of the world's most popular gold coin - the Sovereign.

www.thegoldsovereign.com    |    contact@thegoldsovereign.com

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New errors as far as I can tell:

1) 1852 "I" over lower "I" in "DEI". - I love this overdate, the correction is just so lazy, bad day at the office! Also what makes this interesting is I have 2 separate variations of the same error, but with the I's at slightly different angles!

2) 1852 "M" over tilted "M" in "BRITANNIARUM". - Never seen one of these before in any date (yet)

3) 1852 "I" over tilted "I" in "DEI". - This isn't just doubling

 

1)

DSC06348.thumb.JPG.aeb886303ea5ad3da10e08e45f2b71ce.JPG

2)

DSC06353.thumb.JPG.fad73f3efbb707b2f6c07f754f48e3ed.JPG

3)

DSC06362.thumb.JPG.8e0dfe327129940178656bd671033e38.JPG

 

Edited by sg86

The Gold Sovereign

The Gold Sovereign aims to provide the most complete online resource to collectors of the world's most popular gold coin - the Sovereign.

www.thegoldsovereign.com    |    contact@thegoldsovereign.com

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3 hours ago, sg86 said:

I wish I personally had more half sovereigns to compare and database but unfortunately I don't, so can only go by Marsh and others.

What exactly is your query though, as I see it, it's Marsh 455, Type 1B?

From the pictures it looks like it may be a 8/7 in date, and I'm not sure if it's common for the shield to encroach on the die number like that, again I've not seen enough pieces and the ones I do have are in storage.

Your answer is helpful, thanks. I don't think there's any number overstamp, just a little nick in the top right of the second 8 might make it look so.

I agree it's a type 1B, that's clear, but what's not immediately obvious at quick glance is the mintage note for M455, it says, "See Type IC No. 456". If you do that you'll see that those 1880 IC coins are rare, and are actually obverse 5 (A5). The obverse in my image is unless I'm mistaken obverse 4 (same as the 1876 - 1879 IB coins. If that's correct then my coin here has to be 455A, doesn't it? The thing that totally confuses me is the "low relief" comment, I'm not sure my coin is low relief, but am convinced it's obverse 4 due to the gap between the hair and legend and the truncation size and distance from "1" in date. Difference seen on pages 125 and 127 of Marsh 2017.

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5 hours ago, Sovsaver said:

Your answer is helpful, thanks. I don't think there's any number overstamp, just a little nick in the top right of the second 8 might make it look so.

I agree it's a type 1B, that's clear, but what's not immediately obvious at quick glance is the mintage note for M455, it says, "See Type IC No. 456". If you do that you'll see that those 1880 IC coins are rare, and are actually obverse 5 (A5). The obverse in my image is unless I'm mistaken obverse 4 (same as the 1876 - 1879 IB coins. If that's correct then my coin here has to be 455A, doesn't it? The thing that totally confuses me is the "low relief" comment, I'm not sure my coin is low relief, but am convinced it's obverse 4 due to the gap between the hair and legend and the truncation size and distance from "1" in date. Difference seen on pages 125 and 127 of Marsh 2017.

I agree it's a 1B clearly with obverse 4 although I'm not sure it is in low relief. As I said in your earlier thread, I don't think all the varieties from 1880 are clearly defined yet. That would put it as MM455A and Spink doesn't recognise it. Most likely category would be S3860E, currently listed from 1876 - 1879. I'm not convinced about it having a narrow hair ribbon either.

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Turning into a bit of a picture thread but I think anyone coming across this thread with a question, the pictures can only help :)

Today we have an 1853, A for V in VICTORIA, however I think it's also been corrected with a V over the A after

DSC06382.thumb.JPG.7fbcbc295968e9e8805027e60e8a9781.JPG

Edited by sg86

The Gold Sovereign

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www.thegoldsovereign.com    |    contact@thegoldsovereign.com

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21 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

I agree it's a 1B clearly with obverse 4 although I'm not sure it is in low relief. As I said in your earlier thread, I don't think all the varieties from 1880 are clearly defined yet. That would put it as MM455A and Spink doesn't recognise it. Most likely category would be S3860E, currently listed from 1876 - 1879. I'm not convinced about it having a narrow hair ribbon either.

Thanks, I'm not sure about the ribbon, certainly narrower than obv 1, 2 & 3. I'm happy enough to call it M455A, not withstanding the uncertainty about the low relief.

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Need an opinion on these two, the first is a botched G in GRATIA, maybe a rotated G but opinions welcomed. The second is something under the 6 in date, no idea, could be a die flaw? I won't record if it's not a clear error.

1861 is a very sloppy year, 100s of tiny differences and i'm not recording the tiny ones, only clear errors.

DSC06406-2.JPG.e05c39cf65b3e8967850b7096f031710.JPG

DSC06410-2.JPG.d9c7e7000fe7cc21c38edc6fccb0bdc6.JPG

The Gold Sovereign

The Gold Sovereign aims to provide the most complete online resource to collectors of the world's most popular gold coin - the Sovereign.

www.thegoldsovereign.com    |    contact@thegoldsovereign.com

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  • 4 weeks later...

Not seen this before, any idea what it is ? Obviously looks like the edge of a coin, but how can that happen?

DSC06478.thumb.JPG.7ae741a09becbcda18ff3ebe54c3ca9d.JPG

The Gold Sovereign

The Gold Sovereign aims to provide the most complete online resource to collectors of the world's most popular gold coin - the Sovereign.

www.thegoldsovereign.com    |    contact@thegoldsovereign.com

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For now, I've pinned this thread.  If anyone wants to ask and talk about varieties etc, please post into here.  It'll hopefully keep everything nice and neat due to the vast varieties of them out there.

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1 hour ago, sg86 said:

Not seen this before, any idea what it is ? Obviously looks like the edge of a coin, but how can that happen?

DSC06478.thumb.JPG.7ae741a09becbcda18ff3ebe54c3ca9d.JPG

Looks like the die has been damaged rather than the coin. As the lines are beneath the devices.

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2 hours ago, MikeSol said:

Looks like the die has been damaged rather than the coin. As the lines are beneath the devices.

How do you mean damaged? It looks like a perfect round coin edge, not a mis-strike or something? can that even happen?

The Gold Sovereign

The Gold Sovereign aims to provide the most complete online resource to collectors of the world's most popular gold coin - the Sovereign.

www.thegoldsovereign.com    |    contact@thegoldsovereign.com

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6 minutes ago, sg86 said:

How do you mean damaged? It looks like a perfect round coin edge, not a mis-strike or something? can that even happen?

Well the damage appears to be raised rather than dug into the coin. Maybe it was damaged in the using of the die or production of the die. Certainly an oddity.

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  • 4 weeks later...

@ilovesilverireallydo sure looks like it, why do you have reservations? Often 3 and 5 look very similar, hard to tell via pictures but looks like a 3.

There are a few die number overdates, could be a 3/2 with that additional slant under there

Edited by sg86

The Gold Sovereign

The Gold Sovereign aims to provide the most complete online resource to collectors of the world's most popular gold coin - the Sovereign.

www.thegoldsovereign.com    |    contact@thegoldsovereign.com

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6 minutes ago, sg86 said:

@ilovesilverireallydo sure looks like it, why do you have reservations? Often 3 and 5 look very similar, hard to tell via pictures but looks like a 3.

There are a few die number overdates, could be a 3/2 with that additional slant under there

Naked eye it looked like a 1, the pic turned out to be a 7! 

 

Also,any idea if these are rare/values? 

1874M

1871 London die 48

1866 London die 18

A49A5226-2F3A-4E95-83EC-9B10DE3D08A6.jpeg

5BB97B4A-45FC-4711-98D6-AD2720C8D7D8.jpeg

81B65C1A-FF39-467C-A901-6713D73FC14A.jpeg

879DC4C5-C39F-4FBD-8ADD-68573D2275FF.jpeg

3D59E663-95F3-4B9C-8F0C-9859F01D261B.jpeg

FCCDA763-2CA3-479F-BC49-8408651F7036.jpeg

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19 hours ago, ilovesilverireallydo said:

Naked eye it looked like a 1, the pic turned out to be a 7! 

Yes definitely a 7, I'd be more interested in the 3/2 if it exists for this die

 

edit: You need a good loupe!

Edited by sg86

The Gold Sovereign

The Gold Sovereign aims to provide the most complete online resource to collectors of the world's most popular gold coin - the Sovereign.

www.thegoldsovereign.com    |    contact@thegoldsovereign.com

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14 hours ago, baurum said:

It came from a trustworthy dealer from UK , I don’t think his personnel missed it.

I have concerns about your coin - BP initials do not look right at all. Red box yours, green box another 2001
image.thumb.png.0fa5be1b373c8719fca2b6363272de45.png

image.png.791e404e5849f5068e0b50cbde185409.png

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