bluemoon

6 minutes ago, Cogload said:

 

If a government in the future decided the only form of convertible currency was a CBDC then to be frank you have no choice but to use it. 

The government can track how I am being paid now to what I spend my cash on - all which will change is instead of a bank algorithm telling you what you can and can't spend (accessible by the Government) is one replaced by (possibly) by the BoE or HMRC. And if routed through a bank what would railing against the dying of the light do? The Algorithm would (theoretically) watch what you spendr and how you spend it. 

 

As for the Orwell references. Yes I know the book and if you are really scared by what it pertains don't ever ever buy a smartphone. Of any description. 

Well again, the existing infrastructures are the reasons to not want CBDCs, because we see how it is abused (Canada truckers for example). I think your argument is that the existing infrastructure is therefore a gateway to something similar, but that is the slippery slope fallacy.

Smartphones can be very private actually, even more private than dumbphones. GrapheneOS with private apps like Signal Messenger. It's only Google Android and iPhones that are bad. People equate them with all smartphones only because they are the 2 mainstream ones. Smartphones do not mean no privacy.

30 minutes ago, Cogload said:

Sort of bemused by the CBDC talk on here and "the government can watch where I spend my money". Well if you use debit and credit cards now they can trace your money at a drop of a hat. It is effectively digital money. Unless your entire existence is based on being paid in cash and not having a bank account your financial history can be traced. 

I have just discovered Wise. Am finding it quote useful for buying products overseas. I don't have a credit card because of...history..so am not protected that - but so far the banks I use have honoured my purchases (mind they are relatively small amounts in the round). 

 

You think we don't want the bank tracking to be reversed too? That's precisely why we don't want CBDCs either.

3 minutes ago, ArgentSmith said:

Guys I might be wrong but long term yes 100% agree physical assets way outperform cash but in a period of tightening surely things reverse somewhat for a short period maybe 12 - 24mths

It sure did in 2008, dropped about 30% I think.

2 minutes ago, Maxx546 said:

Carn't see it happening..Big lay off's coming soon, energy prices set to go up in the next month or so plus interest rates set to rise .. people are struggling now paying their mortgage.. lots of people are going to lose their homes and will flood the market..no way will house prices hold their price or go up in price.. 

I'm glad I got out of the property market and sold all my houses when I did ..

Gold and cash for me at the moment...maybe land or forestry if it comes up at the right price ..

 

Land is a good option, at the moment woodland prices are going up because big companies are snapping them up to offset their carbon credits. I don't know if they'd drop in a recession. The other thing is I'd like to buy it behind a trust or something anonymous. Apparently "Russians" (I put that in quotations because that's the media & government's excuse) are still owning major UK properties without an end user individual being identified, despite the UK bringing in new laws last year. I don't know how us small folk can accomplish that, but I'd look into it in case they seize your land for wrong think.

Def spread your assets. If I had property, I'd put some money into a loft extension or something like that, to go with the gold and silver. The other inflation protecting asset would be collectables (like art), but I don't know the foggiest thing about what art is good!

So as much as I don't like having too many eggs in one basket, I am alas heavy in the gold and silver eggs basket, in the absence of property and collectables.

38 minutes ago, gji25 said:

how do you access crypto when the internet goes down ?

I guess we don't. Hope the CBDC pushers dreaming of phasing out cash think of that.

1 hour ago, Bratnia said:

The decentralised transaction element is the part that interests me. Up to now I've had zero interest in bitcoin/crypto's etc., however the potential of selling gold for bitcoin whilst simultaneously placing a short sell on the bitcoin spot market would negate the bitcoin price volatility. Wouldn't matter if the price of bitcoin doubled or halved before you later spent the bitcoin (re-bought gold) - it would still buy back the same amount of ounces of gold (less costs).

As I understand it short selling bitcoin requires bitcoin as collateral, which you'd have from having sold gold for bitcoin. It's not a derivative market so there's no leverage (1:1) so low risk. Then later you repurchase gold, anywhere else in the world that caters for doing so, paying in bitcoin whilst closing the short bitcoin position. There'd be transaction costs/fees (and spot market fees are typically higher than futures) and gold sell/re-buy spreads however those costs are perhaps less than it might have otherwise cost to transport physical gold across international borders or to have liquidated into domestic currency (such as Pounds), electronic transfer those Pound and repurchase gold elsewhere - and without the hassles of having transactions halted pending 'fraud' investigations when selling gold for Pounds and/or sending/conveying Pounds abroad.

Fundamentally requires ...

1. Someone prepared to buy your gold and pay in bitcoin

2. A account/whatever in which to receive/hold the bitcoin

3. A short spot bitcoin market account

4. Someone prepared to sell you gold for bitcoin

I'd imagine that 2 and 3 might be available within the same account/outfit. But with low, near zero knowledge about bitcoin I have no idea about possible accounts/outfits for that, but my interest is piqued enough to start investigating such avenues, if not just only as a fallback option for if "conventional" selling (or buying) gold ever did become more problematic.

I dislike the modern world where bank deposits sees that money become the banks money; Or stock brokerage accounts where deposits becomes the brokers money, where they'll buy the stocks/shares you like, but registered in their name, not yours. And where the tendency is towards Bail-In's where savers/investors fund bail-out's, not taxpayers. Considerable concentration risk factors should a fraud/failure instance occur during the next 20, 30, whatever years that you might be investing. One way to alleviate that as I see it is to for instance hold 25% in a 2x leverage stock, 75% in physical gold (coins/whatever) instead of 50/50 stock/gold. This is a US data example for that. So if the stock brokerage falters/fails perhaps as part of broader contagion due to a large fraud/whatever, then you're still sitting on 75% physical gold holdings and are likely down a lot less than many others (so relatively wealthier) for having hedged some of the risk.

While I haven't bought gold with crypto yet, if I did I would simply buy some crypto then pay for the gold with it. Some bullion dealers take crypto already, and I've seen some forum members take crypto. I would get the crypto from a decentralised exchange like AgoraDesk.

1 hour ago, SidS said:

I personally think crypto is speculative. At best a way to gamble money and make a profit - if you time it right. At worst it's a Ponzi scheme or tulip mania kind of thing.

The problem is that greedy people use it AS speculation which is not what crypto supposed to be. I'd be perfectly fine with a roughly stable 1:1 bitcoin parity with the GBP, I only care to use it as a decentralised transaction method that won't be QEd, regulated or otherwise fiddled with. The greedy people looking to get rich are what ruined it.

Things have gotten so bad that at this point I will only open a new bank account if it doesn't do KYC. What's that, no such banks exist any more? What a shame, it's cash, PMs and crypto then. Maybe some barter here and there too.

My current bank I've been with since I was 6 years old and they obviously didn't KYC me back then. It's a personal current account and I use it as sparingly as possible. The more we use our bank accounts, the more likely something will trigger the algos to kick up a stick about.

6 hours ago, FriedrichVonHayek said:

You could get back the margin premiums if you sell on eBay but you won't get them back if you sell on here or back to a Bullion dealer.

I'm pretty sure you get them margins on this forum too compared to spot, it's just eBay who have even higher margins due to all the fees on there. A cursory look at the trading section shows me about 20% markup on silver spots or more.

On 04/03/2023 at 21:29, FriedrichVonHayek said:

Buying Silver in the UK is pointless due to VAT unless you buy scrap close to spot and then at some point sell it to buy CGT exempt Gold Coins when the Gold/Silver ratio drops significantly.

However this could take some time to happen.

I used to think this way about VAT but in reality you sell the same margin premiums back so it shouldn't really make a difference if silver is bought with VAT or no VAT.

3 hours ago, ArgentSmith said:

If people are having problems transferring why not use paying a friend option? Just a thought.

That's a good idea. Since we're individuals on here anyway, it's like paying a friend. And we're all buddies on this forum, right? 😏 🎎🤘👊👍👯‍♀️

Looks like manipulators played a rope-a-dope, what the heck was that!

That GSR refuses to go down. Being in the 80s is pretty high and it's been hovering round there for the past 8 years.

On 20/02/2023 at 22:52, ShineyMagpie said:

i think as others have said or alluded too, is it worth the paper its printed on? if i have a proof of purchase for a sov, how do you know the sov i'm selling links to that paperwork? Even when it comes to things such a Certificate of coin, how do you know they match up.... i buy 2 coins from the mint on release coin number 001 and Coin 999 can you tell which belongs to which coin, normally not.

Indeed, mixed date coins that say "mixed date Sovereigns" on the certificate could be used over and over. I think as long as you show A certificate and you don't look like a drug dealer, that and a passport is enough lip service to satisfy the boxes that need ticking. Still can't see why you'd ever sell to a dealer though when you can get better rates on places like this forum or eBay.

19 minutes ago, LawrenceChard said:

Anyone who stores personal data has to take adequate security measures.

We at @ChardsCoinandBullionDealer certainly take our systems security seriously, and this includes customer data, which is only kept locally on a different server from our main systems.

We also have "Penetration Tests" performed, similar to those done for "payment processors", even though we are not required to have these, as we are not "payment processors".

I would hope that any major bullion dealer would have similar security, but I would bet against many of the minor coin or bullion dealers having anything approaching a highly secure level.

Another reason for choosing Chards!

😎

The best personal data protection is to not take personal data at all. All talk of servers and encryption is a bandage over that initial act. This is why Sharps Pixley and Gold Investments are the current kings of gold dealers, as they take cash with no ID up to I think 7.5k.  And yes despite what competitors say, what they do is perfectly legal and yes they are very legitimate establishments. Any dealers claiming the law binds them to take your personal data for purchases below the threshold, when it doesn't, are to be viewed with suspicion.

43 minutes ago, JGL100 said:

My rant do you would be - embrace tech as 1950's banking is expensive to run and maintain. People want and expect free banking and are not going to pay for it so the minority can have 8 different banks in the high street. Everything is is moving to app based world. Monzo is great why not use that. I had an NatWest/RBS account its online app is complex and awful. Monzo is easy and simple to use. 

Embrace new tech, im older and have done so. Otherwise you become bitter and left behind. GEN-Z and Milienals are going to be using alot of tech to deal with there day to day life and are not going to provide the analogue systems boomers my gen  are use in there day to day lives for the last 40 years. Im sorry but thats what you sound like...  an old man that not embraced tech and blaming others for the world no longer feeling like it use to. I can just imagine your poor wife getting the same boring rant about the bank everytime you need to interrupt her for the six digit code. 

 i get a bit bored of reading all the tin hat stuff on here too. 

I can't speak for the person you're replying to, but I for one would be happy to "embrace" decentralised cryptocurrencies to replace the bank transactionss if it became accepted by normies. But it hasn't become so, therefore cash still leads the pack for private control of your own money.

Another cash/bank story was when the old £50s were due to come out of circulation. I went into the Post Office to have them swapped out. The man said something about only being able to put it into my bank. I told him I don't have a bank account (I'd only get more grief from my bank). He offered to set me up with a Post Office account and I said definitely thanks but no thanks. So he gave in and asked how much I have. I said £500.He said he can swap only £300. I don't know why but fine, it's a deal. When I took the money out, his eyes went on stalks when he saw they were all £50 notes. He nervously took my money and started counting. Despite saying £300, he had a "F this" moment at £200 and tossed the rest of my money back at me, mumbling something like "that's enough, £200". He then took out the new notes to give to me (all £20s because apparently Post Office don't do £50s), gave me £200 worth and said goodbye in a "now go away" tone of voice. I said to hold on while I count up the notes he gave me. I duly counted £200 then looked up and said thank you, seeing an indignant face as he was leaned back in his chair, his body language as though he just inadvertently helped a drug dealer launder his money or something.

The moral of the story I took away was these responses only happen because not enough people are normalising cash, and my lesson was to do this sort of thing MORE to help normalise it.

In fairness to Barclays, their self service machines could have taken my cash and spat me out some new polymer notes, and I still withdraw my money from their in £50s without a problem (max £2000). I don't know why I thought the Post Office would be better, but it made for a something to tell the Mrs that evening.

21 hours ago, ZRPMs said:

Well Battle commenced at 9:34 am this morning with NatWest. They all Know me in the branch. I think I'm known as the awkward b&$t&rd. I approached the desk "Hello Mr ............ how can we help today?". I proceed to tell them I wish to pa mortgage off, Pay a contractor and withdraw £2000. "Umm we may need to take you to a private area." Off we go. I have all the paperwork for the mortgage and it turns out that the mortgage company is a subsidiary of the bank. This will go smoothly I thought. Nope. Was I sure it was what I wanted? Is it defiantly the correct bank/ details/ the right move for me/ uncoerced. Did I feel any pressure making the payment? My god the list went on. In the end I got the mortgage place on the phone. Went through all their security. Please press 1 then 5 then 7 very sorry you have made a wrong choice back to main menu. repeat, you get the drift. Finally get to talk with some one. Do I give authority to discus the matter with a third party. Eventually got the payment sent. They weren't too happy about paying the electricians bill. And as far as the £2000. They would only let me have £1000 as I might end up paying other tradesmen. I did tell them that I failed to see how the way I spent my funds was relevant to them. Any how, That took nearly 2 hours.

Utterly horrifying.

A lot of kindred spirits on this thread which is heartening, I only wish it was representative of wider society. Let's keep pushing it.

I like £50 notes actually, good for grocery shopping, restaurants, etc. Most faked notes are fivers and tenners but the average Wilko till worker gets nervous around £50s. Frankly with inflation, we should have a £100 note in circulation. I learned the other day that Euros go up to 200 Euro notes and until recently they had a 500 Euro note!. B of E wants to limit us to £50s though? Madness!

Sharps Pixley of course take £50s with no issues, they have a machine that counts cash notes in a matter of seconds. No excuse for businesses to not accept cash.

Lidl self service machines no longer take cash, even though the hole in which to drop your coins into are still physically there on the machines, it's just Lidl who have switched off that part of the machine from working.

As for Barclays, I spoke to their fraud team after making a payment to eBay they were suspicious of, and they do treat you like criminals. Even without that, just making normal payments mean logging in with a PINSendry device, texting my phone to conform payment, then another PINsendry confirmation dance. What a merry-go-round. I'm not much of a crypto fan but I did once pay for something in Bitcoin and I was amazed at how much less hassle you get than you do from the banks. Like wow, I just made a payment without being treated like a suspected drug dealer, I thought to myself how refreshing that was!

Still prefer cash though.

It beggars belief that a nation and it's people can sleepwalk from a relatively free & laid back country such as it was in the 1990s, to now a Soviet style country that people back then understood was undesirable and thought only happened under repressive regimes in backwards parts of the globe. Now we are one of those countries. RIP Britain and indeed the former "Western World".

3 hours ago, KevjustKev said:

I've been there a number of times. A big plus is they take cash, a bigger plus is if there could be a bit of a wait, you get a cup of tea!

Yes I've been given the posh tea treatment, I feel like Lord BlueMoon being waited on whilst I engage in regal transactions.

And the cash thing is very important, they have a counting machine like this, which I'm reminded of whenever those card only businesses whinge about cash being too much hard work to count up at the end of each day.

They are very posh too, which I like when buying gold.

My first coin was a Krug, at first I was underwhelmed with the colour of it but I do like the cheap robustness of it. If CGT wasn't an issue I'd def have more of them.

24 minutes ago, Bigmarc said:

And what qualifies as proof of ownership? If you sell something do you prove where it came from? 

I get that, but I also know how unfriendly the bureaucratic pen pushers are when it comes to money. I'd love to liquidate lots of gold without hassle, but I can't see a gormless bank clerk accepting at face value that I liquidated 50k of gold I bought over 7 years ago and to stop interrogating me over where the money came from.

Similarly if I buy a house with that liquidated gold, they want to know the source of the cash. Will they just accept it came from liquidated gold I bought over 7 years ago? I doubt they'd give me a free ride over that.

Maybe I'm too paranoid.