Pete

If you buy now gold will fall but if you don't buy now gold will rise !!
This is generally the experience we all share.
Good luck deciding !!

Gold, silver, platinum, rhodium ... doesn't matter .. all are classed as "precious metals" and have various other uses rather than just investment assets.
These 4 metals are traditionally associated with jewellery and articles of opulence - cutlery, trophies, royal / high society dining etc.
Industrial uses are inevitably based on cost vs durability.

Gold and platinum are inert so the best for electrical and thermal conductivity so all electrical and electronic connectors should be made or plated with gold but where cost becomes a factor then silver is the next best and considerably cheaper. You cover your billion dollar satellites in gold foil and gold coated materials, not silver etc.
Platinum has a high affinity for capturing hydrogen and will be in demand for fuel cells but again the high cost is a factor.
Platinum used to be higher priced than gold and taking into account all the fundamentals should still be priced higher than gold suggesting gold is maybe manipulated in price.
Many of us believe the opposite with silver and it is undervalued by the big institutions forcing the price down until the bubble bursts ( if ever ).
The price of these precious materials is more likely to be governed by banks rather than industrial consumers and as they fall into the wealth / assets category their prices will be dictated to by demand from investors and the cost of getting the metals out of the ground rather than whether they are added to solar panels and catalytic convertors.
We don't class copper, tin, lead, aluminium as investment vehicles because they are cheap by comparison but in huge demand from industry.
Lithium would be an interesting metal because we could potentially run out of lithium as the demand for batteries grows exponentially AND very soon !
You would however need to keep your lithium in a jar of oil or it would self ignite.
Back to Platinum - if you can buy with a fair margin this would be a good metal to buy and hold for the long term - personal viewpoint according to my crystal ball.
Margins have been unrealistically high due to lack of inventory but slowly returning to single digit in some places but for us in the UK adding 20% VAT tax is a deterrent and favours gold.
I did take the hit and bought some platinum Queen's Beasts recently but only for set continuation.
 

Gold, silver, platinum, rhodium ... doesn't matter .. all are classed as "precious metals" and have various other uses rather than just investment assets.
These 4 metals are traditionally associated with jewellery and articles of opulence - cutlery, trophies, royal / high society dining etc.
Industrial uses are inevitably based on cost vs durability.

Gold and platinum are inert so the best for electrical and thermal conductivity so all electrical and electronic connectors should be made or plated with gold but where cost becomes a factor then silver is the next best and considerably cheaper. You cover your billion dollar satellites in gold foil and gold coated materials, not silver etc.
Platinum has a high affinity for capturing hydrogen and will be in demand for fuel cells but again the high cost is a factor.
Platinum used to be higher priced than gold and taking into account all the fundamentals should still be priced higher than gold suggesting gold is maybe manipulated in price.
Many of us believe the opposite with silver and it is undervalued by the big institutions forcing the price down until the bubble bursts ( if ever ).
The price of these precious materials is more likely to be governed by banks rather than industrial consumers and as they fall into the wealth / assets category their prices will be dictated to by demand from investors and the cost of getting the metals out of the ground rather than whether they are added to solar panels and catalytic convertors.
We don't class copper, tin, lead, aluminium as investment vehicles because they are cheap by comparison but in huge demand from industry.
Lithium would be an interesting metal because we could potentially run out of lithium as the demand for batteries grows exponentially AND very soon !
You would however need to keep your lithium in a jar of oil or it would self ignite.
Back to Platinum - if you can buy with a fair margin this would be a good metal to buy and hold for the long term - personal viewpoint according to my crystal ball.
Margins have been unrealistically high due to lack of inventory but slowly returning to single digit in some places but for us in the UK adding 20% VAT tax is a deterrent and favours gold.
I did take the hit and bought some platinum Queen's Beasts recently but only for set continuation.
 

If you buy now gold will fall but if you don't buy now gold will rise !!
This is generally the experience we all share.
Good luck deciding !!

If you buy now gold will fall but if you don't buy now gold will rise !!
This is generally the experience we all share.
Good luck deciding !!

If you buy now gold will fall but if you don't buy now gold will rise !!
This is generally the experience we all share.
Good luck deciding !!

If you buy now gold will fall but if you don't buy now gold will rise !!
This is generally the experience we all share.
Good luck deciding !!

If you buy now gold will fall but if you don't buy now gold will rise !!
This is generally the experience we all share.
Good luck deciding !!

If you buy now gold will fall but if you don't buy now gold will rise !!
This is generally the experience we all share.
Good luck deciding !!

The problem with pricing silver coins is the spread between what a seller wants and a buyer hopes for.
A silver stacker can buy a shiny new sovereign from multiple sellers so let's take a typical sales price today of £332 delivered.
If I was to offer for sale any of my BUNC silver coins I would expect £30 each.
That translates to 11 silver coins for a full sovereign since postage of the silver would cost £7.65 SD
 

The problem with pricing silver coins is the spread between what a seller wants and a buyer hopes for.
A silver stacker can buy a shiny new sovereign from multiple sellers so let's take a typical sales price today of £332 delivered.
If I was to offer for sale any of my BUNC silver coins I would expect £30 each.
That translates to 11 silver coins for a full sovereign since postage of the silver would cost £7.65 SD
 

Easy - grade “C” is referring to what a dog tends to leave in the park that you are supposed to pick up.

Easy - grade “C” is referring to what a dog tends to leave in the park that you are supposed to pick up.

Well that’s an interesting question without a simple answer! At its most basic, silver - like all metals and most commodities - has a spot price. That’s the market valuation of a resource in a readily utilisable form - I’ve spent most of my career in metal (not PM’s though) and spot prices are very widely used as a staple price guide. From there, there is the spread - the % difference that dealers will buy and sell at and so make their profit. For PM’s this may be relatively small, up to 5% for gold but often a couple of percent. For copper and titanium, to use as random examples, this may be as high as 20% depending on several factors.
The spot price is not guided by simple supply and demand, though it does have an effect. It is rather more heavily impacted by market sentiment and outlook. For example, I traded several millions of pounds worth of copper when demand was relatively low but economic outlook for the Far East was very good and prices were correspondingly high. Careful timing led to a handsome profit for my employer.
With PM’s, there’s a lot of other factors. The form of the Silver plays a big part. Bars, coins and bulk ingots carry differing premiums. Proof silver of a rare coin such as a Libertad will carry a much heavier premium than a cast kilo bar. I won’t comment on the vagaries of PM markets as I would be commenting on a hobby that I find interesting rather than from a place of experience and knowledge. Maybe my knowledgable friend @Pete could offer some of his wealth of knowledge on this subject as his knowledge of the PM world is surpassed only by his generosity of time spent assisting those of us with less experience. @BackyardBullion and @ChrisSilver also offer very sage words indeed on the subject. I can whole heartedly recommend @BackyardBullion YouTube channel for a source of bullsh1t free refreshingly level headed information and opinion.
Finally, decide the reason for your foray into the PM market. A store of value is a very real and well guided reason for PM investment. Timing the market and trying to win big is not necessarily the best reason reason - though it has been done and undoubtedly can be done again with sufficient research and dedication. Hope that helps you out a bit.

I wouldn't discard silver because everyone is comparing market price to scrap i.e. spot price.
If spot is £20 and a 1 ounce coin sells for £35 then most buyers of silver, excluding the banks etc. will use the £35 value and ignore the spot price.
Okay there is a premium plus 20% VAT but that embeds itself to the coin when trading.
Only when you liquidate to a bullion dealer do you forfeit the markup and tax.
What is the value of a bitcoin ?
Probably zero but people will buy and sell at whatever the market decides so that sets the price.
Same with our silver coins and bars except silver has a spot value so isn't zero.
Gold is bought and sold more or less around spot plus / minus single digit percentages.
However there can also be big premiums on some coins between buyers and sellers but when selling back to a dealer this premium is lost also.
For example I saw today on our forum a Queens Beast advertised for just shy of £2,000 when gold spot is £1,320.
Maybe people will pay £2,000 for an ounce of gold but a dealer will only give you £1,295 if lucky, which is 35% less than its "trading" value.
So in conclusion silver is not necessarily that bad even with its VAT and margins and only falls flat selling back to dealers.

You will see how helpful fellow forum members are in trying to both share their own direct experience and offer some advice.
The problem ( not a bad one to have ! ) is that you have 3 x 500g bars worth about £22k each.
It is a store of wealth for sure and easily kept in a (Metro perhaps ? ) safe-deposit box.
I would guess it will be impossible to sell privately and and who is going to trust whom ?
Your only option would be to sell to a bullion dealer and they might need some time to verify the bar and that it isn't just a gold plated bar of tungsten.
Initially I was going to suggest you wait until gold increases in price so that you could sell at breakeven but if you are intent on holding gold for the longer term then the price really doesn't matter. You are selling and buying the same weight so whatever the price on the day is wholly irrelevant.
The problem you may come across is twofold - supply and premium.
Buying sovereigns is a good strategy but only if you can buy at a fair premium and not overpay if supplies are limited.
If you can exchange into gold coins and sovereigns aren't available in sufficient quantity or reasonable price then buy any gold coins that are only a few percent over spot but are preferably 24 carat like Maples, newer Britannias, Krugerrand etc. You are not a coin collector so it doesn't matter and you can always sell back and buy sovereigns at a later date.
Failing that you could buy best value gold bars 50g or thereabouts. It is all about staying in the game and not the variations in price.
Timing the market is a mugs game in your situation.
Buyers of gold will wait hoping for a decent dip whilst sellers of gold are praying for rises.
You shouldn't really care as you are remaining invested in gold.
Waiting on gold to rise to sell only means you are going to pay more for your coins and smaller bars.
If you sell and wait, the price of gold can continue to rise so you will have missed the growth potential.
It is impossible to predict peaks and dips but very rarely someone might strike lucky.
If gold falls then many people will not sell so the availability of coins etc diminishes.
If gold rises then some will sell to take profit but your buy price rises and if there is more demand then the dealers increase their premiums.
In conclusion if I was in your shoes what would I do ?
I would consider selling 1 bar to swap into smaller bars and coins, sovereigns - if there are sufficient.
Give a call to HGM, Atkinsons, BullionbyPost, Chards and ask if they could supply 500g of fine gold in coins and small bars and see if they could trade on a 3% or less premium over spot. If one of them has sufficient inventory then ask if they would buy your 500g bar for as near to spot as possible - maybe 98% ?? If yes then it might be possible to strike a deal and fix everything whilst physical exchanges takes a day or so but the deal is locked solid. It doesn't matter if gold tanks or rises to the moon the following day because you remain with 500g of gold. If the dealer can supply 1kg or 1.5kg at the time then go "all in" and get rid of your bars. At the end of the day you will see that there have been losses in paying a premium to the RM day 1 then a second premium buying coins etc and a small premium selling your bars. Added up this might amount to 10% but in a year gold could swing 30% so if you aren't willing to absorb the losses, hold your bars in your vault until hopefully you can sell at a profit but if you buy back into gold then you will still have incurred the same percentage losses. 
Please note this is nothing more than friendly banter, or simply "food for thought", as to what I would do, but please don't take this as financial advice as I am not qualified to make recommendations of any sorts.
 
 
 

You will see how helpful fellow forum members are in trying to both share their own direct experience and offer some advice.
The problem ( not a bad one to have ! ) is that you have 3 x 500g bars worth about £22k each.
It is a store of wealth for sure and easily kept in a (Metro perhaps ? ) safe-deposit box.
I would guess it will be impossible to sell privately and and who is going to trust whom ?
Your only option would be to sell to a bullion dealer and they might need some time to verify the bar and that it isn't just a gold plated bar of tungsten.
Initially I was going to suggest you wait until gold increases in price so that you could sell at breakeven but if you are intent on holding gold for the longer term then the price really doesn't matter. You are selling and buying the same weight so whatever the price on the day is wholly irrelevant.
The problem you may come across is twofold - supply and premium.
Buying sovereigns is a good strategy but only if you can buy at a fair premium and not overpay if supplies are limited.
If you can exchange into gold coins and sovereigns aren't available in sufficient quantity or reasonable price then buy any gold coins that are only a few percent over spot but are preferably 24 carat like Maples, newer Britannias, Krugerrand etc. You are not a coin collector so it doesn't matter and you can always sell back and buy sovereigns at a later date.
Failing that you could buy best value gold bars 50g or thereabouts. It is all about staying in the game and not the variations in price.
Timing the market is a mugs game in your situation.
Buyers of gold will wait hoping for a decent dip whilst sellers of gold are praying for rises.
You shouldn't really care as you are remaining invested in gold.
Waiting on gold to rise to sell only means you are going to pay more for your coins and smaller bars.
If you sell and wait, the price of gold can continue to rise so you will have missed the growth potential.
It is impossible to predict peaks and dips but very rarely someone might strike lucky.
If gold falls then many people will not sell so the availability of coins etc diminishes.
If gold rises then some will sell to take profit but your buy price rises and if there is more demand then the dealers increase their premiums.
In conclusion if I was in your shoes what would I do ?
I would consider selling 1 bar to swap into smaller bars and coins, sovereigns - if there are sufficient.
Give a call to HGM, Atkinsons, BullionbyPost, Chards and ask if they could supply 500g of fine gold in coins and small bars and see if they could trade on a 3% or less premium over spot. If one of them has sufficient inventory then ask if they would buy your 500g bar for as near to spot as possible - maybe 98% ?? If yes then it might be possible to strike a deal and fix everything whilst physical exchanges takes a day or so but the deal is locked solid. It doesn't matter if gold tanks or rises to the moon the following day because you remain with 500g of gold. If the dealer can supply 1kg or 1.5kg at the time then go "all in" and get rid of your bars. At the end of the day you will see that there have been losses in paying a premium to the RM day 1 then a second premium buying coins etc and a small premium selling your bars. Added up this might amount to 10% but in a year gold could swing 30% so if you aren't willing to absorb the losses, hold your bars in your vault until hopefully you can sell at a profit but if you buy back into gold then you will still have incurred the same percentage losses. 
Please note this is nothing more than friendly banter, or simply "food for thought", as to what I would do, but please don't take this as financial advice as I am not qualified to make recommendations of any sorts.
 
 
 

You will see how helpful fellow forum members are in trying to both share their own direct experience and offer some advice.
The problem ( not a bad one to have ! ) is that you have 3 x 500g bars worth about £22k each.
It is a store of wealth for sure and easily kept in a (Metro perhaps ? ) safe-deposit box.
I would guess it will be impossible to sell privately and and who is going to trust whom ?
Your only option would be to sell to a bullion dealer and they might need some time to verify the bar and that it isn't just a gold plated bar of tungsten.
Initially I was going to suggest you wait until gold increases in price so that you could sell at breakeven but if you are intent on holding gold for the longer term then the price really doesn't matter. You are selling and buying the same weight so whatever the price on the day is wholly irrelevant.
The problem you may come across is twofold - supply and premium.
Buying sovereigns is a good strategy but only if you can buy at a fair premium and not overpay if supplies are limited.
If you can exchange into gold coins and sovereigns aren't available in sufficient quantity or reasonable price then buy any gold coins that are only a few percent over spot but are preferably 24 carat like Maples, newer Britannias, Krugerrand etc. You are not a coin collector so it doesn't matter and you can always sell back and buy sovereigns at a later date.
Failing that you could buy best value gold bars 50g or thereabouts. It is all about staying in the game and not the variations in price.
Timing the market is a mugs game in your situation.
Buyers of gold will wait hoping for a decent dip whilst sellers of gold are praying for rises.
You shouldn't really care as you are remaining invested in gold.
Waiting on gold to rise to sell only means you are going to pay more for your coins and smaller bars.
If you sell and wait, the price of gold can continue to rise so you will have missed the growth potential.
It is impossible to predict peaks and dips but very rarely someone might strike lucky.
If gold falls then many people will not sell so the availability of coins etc diminishes.
If gold rises then some will sell to take profit but your buy price rises and if there is more demand then the dealers increase their premiums.
In conclusion if I was in your shoes what would I do ?
I would consider selling 1 bar to swap into smaller bars and coins, sovereigns - if there are sufficient.
Give a call to HGM, Atkinsons, BullionbyPost, Chards and ask if they could supply 500g of fine gold in coins and small bars and see if they could trade on a 3% or less premium over spot. If one of them has sufficient inventory then ask if they would buy your 500g bar for as near to spot as possible - maybe 98% ?? If yes then it might be possible to strike a deal and fix everything whilst physical exchanges takes a day or so but the deal is locked solid. It doesn't matter if gold tanks or rises to the moon the following day because you remain with 500g of gold. If the dealer can supply 1kg or 1.5kg at the time then go "all in" and get rid of your bars. At the end of the day you will see that there have been losses in paying a premium to the RM day 1 then a second premium buying coins etc and a small premium selling your bars. Added up this might amount to 10% but in a year gold could swing 30% so if you aren't willing to absorb the losses, hold your bars in your vault until hopefully you can sell at a profit but if you buy back into gold then you will still have incurred the same percentage losses. 
Please note this is nothing more than friendly banter, or simply "food for thought", as to what I would do, but please don't take this as financial advice as I am not qualified to make recommendations of any sorts.
 
 
 

You have definitely learned the lesson about proofs.
I am always astonished at how easy it is to mark with very fine lines any proof silver coin.
You open the capsule to examine the lovely mirror finished coin only to see a few small spots of dust on your coin.
No problemo !
Out comes your camel hair soft camera lens cleaning brush from the days of SLR cameras, flick the dust away and F*CK !!!
Laterally moving dust, which could be Sahara sand suspended in the air, and you see your fine lines at glancing angles of viewing.
Sand and many types of dust are harder than the silver or gold and will scratch - Moh's scale etc..
These same dust particles will not scratch your hard coated glasses or lenses because the invisible thin film coating is much much harder than the contaminants.
There are 2 ways of getting rid of dust - high pressure air jet from a can of dust-off BUT hoping none of the propellant spots your pristine surface, or wetting in a bath of acetone or even filtered softened water but dabbing dry hoping that there is no residue or water marks left behind.
Any attempt to dry wipe, even with the softest cloths, can mark.
I have used cottonwool balls in acetone and had decent success but the secret is to remove any debris before wiping hence - hold your coin by the rim and agitate it in warm soapy water before wiping gently with a submerged cottonwool ball barely applying any pressure and then repeat in acetone if you have any. Any drying should be patting with an absorbent paper towel and never "wiping".

 

You have definitely learned the lesson about proofs.
I am always astonished at how easy it is to mark with very fine lines any proof silver coin.
You open the capsule to examine the lovely mirror finished coin only to see a few small spots of dust on your coin.
No problemo !
Out comes your camel hair soft camera lens cleaning brush from the days of SLR cameras, flick the dust away and F*CK !!!
Laterally moving dust, which could be Sahara sand suspended in the air, and you see your fine lines at glancing angles of viewing.
Sand and many types of dust are harder than the silver or gold and will scratch - Moh's scale etc..
These same dust particles will not scratch your hard coated glasses or lenses because the invisible thin film coating is much much harder than the contaminants.
There are 2 ways of getting rid of dust - high pressure air jet from a can of dust-off BUT hoping none of the propellant spots your pristine surface, or wetting in a bath of acetone or even filtered softened water but dabbing dry hoping that there is no residue or water marks left behind.
Any attempt to dry wipe, even with the softest cloths, can mark.
I have used cottonwool balls in acetone and had decent success but the secret is to remove any debris before wiping hence - hold your coin by the rim and agitate it in warm soapy water before wiping gently with a submerged cottonwool ball barely applying any pressure and then repeat in acetone if you have any. Any drying should be patting with an absorbent paper towel and never "wiping".

 

You have definitely learned the lesson about proofs.
I am always astonished at how easy it is to mark with very fine lines any proof silver coin.
You open the capsule to examine the lovely mirror finished coin only to see a few small spots of dust on your coin.
No problemo !
Out comes your camel hair soft camera lens cleaning brush from the days of SLR cameras, flick the dust away and F*CK !!!
Laterally moving dust, which could be Sahara sand suspended in the air, and you see your fine lines at glancing angles of viewing.
Sand and many types of dust are harder than the silver or gold and will scratch - Moh's scale etc..
These same dust particles will not scratch your hard coated glasses or lenses because the invisible thin film coating is much much harder than the contaminants.
There are 2 ways of getting rid of dust - high pressure air jet from a can of dust-off BUT hoping none of the propellant spots your pristine surface, or wetting in a bath of acetone or even filtered softened water but dabbing dry hoping that there is no residue or water marks left behind.
Any attempt to dry wipe, even with the softest cloths, can mark.
I have used cottonwool balls in acetone and had decent success but the secret is to remove any debris before wiping hence - hold your coin by the rim and agitate it in warm soapy water before wiping gently with a submerged cottonwool ball barely applying any pressure and then repeat in acetone if you have any. Any drying should be patting with an absorbent paper towel and never "wiping".

 

I wouldn't discard silver because everyone is comparing market price to scrap i.e. spot price.
If spot is £20 and a 1 ounce coin sells for £35 then most buyers of silver, excluding the banks etc. will use the £35 value and ignore the spot price.
Okay there is a premium plus 20% VAT but that embeds itself to the coin when trading.
Only when you liquidate to a bullion dealer do you forfeit the markup and tax.
What is the value of a bitcoin ?
Probably zero but people will buy and sell at whatever the market decides so that sets the price.
Same with our silver coins and bars except silver has a spot value so isn't zero.
Gold is bought and sold more or less around spot plus / minus single digit percentages.
However there can also be big premiums on some coins between buyers and sellers but when selling back to a dealer this premium is lost also.
For example I saw today on our forum a Queens Beast advertised for just shy of £2,000 when gold spot is £1,320.
Maybe people will pay £2,000 for an ounce of gold but a dealer will only give you £1,295 if lucky, which is 35% less than its "trading" value.
So in conclusion silver is not necessarily that bad even with its VAT and margins and only falls flat selling back to dealers.

I wouldn't discard silver because everyone is comparing market price to scrap i.e. spot price.
If spot is £20 and a 1 ounce coin sells for £35 then most buyers of silver, excluding the banks etc. will use the £35 value and ignore the spot price.
Okay there is a premium plus 20% VAT but that embeds itself to the coin when trading.
Only when you liquidate to a bullion dealer do you forfeit the markup and tax.
What is the value of a bitcoin ?
Probably zero but people will buy and sell at whatever the market decides so that sets the price.
Same with our silver coins and bars except silver has a spot value so isn't zero.
Gold is bought and sold more or less around spot plus / minus single digit percentages.
However there can also be big premiums on some coins between buyers and sellers but when selling back to a dealer this premium is lost also.
For example I saw today on our forum a Queens Beast advertised for just shy of £2,000 when gold spot is £1,320.
Maybe people will pay £2,000 for an ounce of gold but a dealer will only give you £1,295 if lucky, which is 35% less than its "trading" value.
So in conclusion silver is not necessarily that bad even with its VAT and margins and only falls flat selling back to dealers.

I found the section inside the Hereaus refinery the best but I was falling asleep listening to the speakers.
Maybe I missed the section in the Swiss underground vault as I didn't see any gold on display, only corridors and nuclear bunker doors which are quite common in many Swiss buildings. Thanks for sharing though !!
 

My experience is that if you want an almost instant sale offer your gold on this forum for spot price.
That also depends on the coins of course and if 22ct - 24ct
I found selling to HGM the quickest alternative and received money in the bank on the same day they received the gold.
Generally you can expect 97% or maybe a little better and you can get an estimate / quote on-line.
If popular gold coins like sovereigns etc you could ask 2-3% over spot and maybe catch a buyer in 24 hours.
Any higher and its hit and miss I'm afraid.
As you are a new member you will most likely be asked to ship your gold before receiving payment and if so only sell to reputable members who could be trusted.
Taking into account this fact and that you NEED to sell, if you cannot trust the forum buyer(s), then on this occasion sell to the main dealers - HGM, Chards, BbP and avoid the hurdles & worries.

As others have said people should avoid putting themselves into a financial vulnerability where an emergency forces a sale of PMs - lesson learned !!