Silver to Gold

[Oliman]

Hi Guys, 

Just a quick query, what would you guys deem a fair trade for some silver to gold. I.e how many ounces for a full sovereign or a 1oz of gold. I know Silver has higher premiums than gold but what would you guys consider a fair trade for both parties?

Cheers in advance

[HawkHybrid]

like any other trade, would you not trade it based on the current market value of each item?

what is so special about the gold to silver ratio?

 

HH

[Darr3nG]

Rough estimates, based on current bullion values:

12oz Silver for 1 x Full Sovereign

50oz Silver for 1 x 1oz Gold

[Pete]

The problem with pricing silver coins is the spread between what a seller wants and a buyer hopes for.
A silver stacker can buy a shiny new sovereign from multiple sellers so let's take a typical sales price today of £332 delivered.
If I was to offer for sale any of my BUNC silver coins I would expect £30 each.
That translates to 11 silver coins for a full sovereign since postage of the silver would cost £7.65 SD
 

[Robda1986]

44:1 =

10oz - sov 

12oz - 1/4

24oz - 1/2

[HawkHybrid]

7 hours ago, Robda1986 said:

44:1 =

10oz - sov 

12oz - 1/4

24oz - 1/2

 

don't you mean 48:1 ?

 

HH

[Robda1986]

50 minutes ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

don't you mean 48:1 ?

 

HH

My bad

[HawkHybrid]

20 hours ago, Pete said:

The problem with pricing silver coins is the spread between what a seller wants and a buyer hopes for.

buyer and seller not being able to agree on a price for the silver is probably the biggest problem

facing a silver to gold trade. (notice how it's not a such problem for pricing the gold).

 

On 27/05/2021 at 11:32, Oliman said:

deem a fair trade for some silver to gold.

anyone who quotes the gold to silver ratio of (whatever it is) is not actually helping the situation. there

is no such thing as a fair gsr(this is part of the disagreement). people who quote gsr values are only

doing so to support their side of the trade.

imo it's likely the seller of silver being unrealistic about the value of their silver. everyone knows that

sold to dealers(the actual barometer for the pricing of bulk physical silver) the price offered is much less

than what silver owners believe their silver to be worth. (gold sold to dealers is priced close enough(%) to

what people are expecting). pricing something is very different to actually selling something.

when sellers and buyers can't agree on a price, it's probably better to leave it be. (instead of coming up

with fair guidance to 'prove your case').

 

HH

Edited May 28, 2021 by HawkHybrid

[sovereignsteve]

On 27/05/2021 at 11:41, HawkHybrid said:

what is so special about the gold to silver ratio?

The OP didn't mention the GSR

21 hours ago, HawkHybrid said:

anyone who quotes the gold to silver ratio of (whatever it is) is not actually helping the situation. there

is no such thing as a fair gsr(this is part of the disagreement). people who quote gsr values are only

doing so to support their side of

You're the only one talking about it

[HawkHybrid]

1 hour ago, sovereignsteve said:

The OP didn't mention the GSR

You're the only one talking about it

 

On 27/05/2021 at 11:32, Oliman said:

a fair trade for both parties?

I'm reading between the lines.

 

when people talk about trading silver and gold, it's almost always about the gold to silver ratio.

(or rather it's almost always about potential disagreement about the gsr when they come up with

'a fair trade')

if they treated it as two independent trades(£ for gold, £ for silver) but both trades are combined

for efficiency then it wouldn't be such a big problem. if buyer and seller can agree on each item

independently then there is no need for 'fair trade for both parties'. why would it be a fair trade

for silver to gold? it would read what is a fair price for x item/coin?

 

people need to be more upfront in their trading. hiding potentially important negotiation issues

just drags out the trading process. just say that my silver/gold is priced at £x. people choose trades

based on all sorts of reasons, not just price.

 

HH

Edited May 29, 2021 by HawkHybrid

[sovereignsteve]

2 hours ago, HawkHybrid said:

I'm reading between the lines.

Just jumping to conclusions then?

2 hours ago, HawkHybrid said:

f they treated it as two independent trades(£ for gold, £ for silver) but both trades are combined

for efficiency then it wouldn't be such a big problem

There was nothing the OP said nor anything in the few relies posted to suggest otherwise.

[sixgun]

It very much depends on what form the silver takes as to what it is potentially worth.

You might actually be better off selling the silver and then buying your gold with the cash. Swaps are not that popular on the forum and you are likely to be confronted by chancers who want your silver for peanuts.

[HawkHybrid]

2 hours ago, sovereignsteve said:

Just jumping to conclusions then?

There was nothing the OP said nor anything in the few relies posted to suggest otherwise.

 

why does the op specifically need guidance of a fair trade for silver to gold if he can get agreement

on each individual item traded?

 

HH

Edited May 29, 2021 by HawkHybrid

[sovereignsteve]

1 minute ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

why does the op specifically need guidance of a fair trade for silver to gold if he can get agreement

on each individual item traded?

 

HH

As many discussions around this topic have shown, there are wide differences of opinion on a fair trade.

Some who look to trade silver when GSR is low think it should be done at that figure and do not take into account the actual buying prices. Others think it should be done at maximum retail prices which would include VAT. The truth is a fair figure is probably somewhere beween these extremes but would obviously depend on market forces at the time.

It's probably a far simpler discussion since Brexit, as it effectively means that we in the UK can't easily access VAT or at least cheaper silver, as we once could. This should mean that holders of gold will want to settle on a trade ratio that more accurately relects the higher retail price of UK silver these days.

I don't think we have discussed this issue since Brexit therefore I think it perfectly reasonable for the OP to canvass forum opinion before they offer their silver up for trade. Any fine tuning can be negotiated between interested parties.

[Roy]

I think the GSR as a factor is irrelevant in the UK because there's so much + + + 

Surely the simplest way is that gold is £1340 plus 3-5% per ounce and silver is £20 plus 40-50% per ounce. Divide the two and you get the ratio.

But then you come across postage etc.!

I think only @Darr3nG has traded silver/gold successfully? I don't recommend it meself.

[HawkHybrid]

1 minute ago, sovereignsteve said:

As many discussions around this topic have shown, there are wide differences of opinion on a fair trade.

Some who look to trade silver when GSR is low think it should be done at that figure and do not take into account the actual buying prices. Others think it should be done at maximum retail prices which would include VAT. The truth is a fair figure is probably somewhere beween these extremes but would obviously depend on market forces at the time.

It's probably a far simpler discussion since Brexit, as it effectively means that we in the UK can't easily access VAT or at least cheaper silver, as we once could. This should mean that holders of gold will want to settle on a trade ratio that more accurately relects the higher retail price of UK silver these days.

I don't think we have discussed this issue since Brexit therefore I think it perfectly reasonable for the OP to canvass forum opinion before they offer their silver up for trade. Any fine tuning can be negotiated between interested parties.

 

what I was suggesting was that both sides agreeing on the price of the silver is likely the biggest hurdle.

what silver sellers don't realise is that gold sellers can easily sell their gold for spot -3% and take the funds

to spend as they wish. it takes time and effort for silver sellers to hit close to their retail prices. ultimately

gold sellers need not think twice about walking away from the deal. brexit does not change this unless

dealers are now paying more(%) to buy silver?

 

HH

[Arganto]

I think the market everywhere bar oBey the auctioneers has indicated a good enough guide for pricing silver for a while now. As a baseline indication I think something like 12:1 is a reasonable ballpark for 'normal' silver like Britannias and 'normal' gold like bullion sovereigns. That's as of right now whilst thinking about it, but that may change given a myriad of potential market changes. As with everything though there is nuance; not all silver carries the same premium and neither does all gold. A decent young head Victoria will likely not be 3% over for instance. If it was something I was looking to do I would work out what the going rate would be for each item I had when converted to £sterling, then look around at the kind of gold I would want in return and offer up an equal looking trade.  As a for example if you had eight Koalas that were trading for around the £30 mark each and three Britannias that were trading for around £28 each you could state that on the swap advert and ask for say, one average bullion condition sovereign. It would then be up to those viewing the advert whether to decide that trade is worthwhile for them or not. There may even be some bartering to be done, which is always fun!

Saying that silver owners overvalue their holdings when the evidence suggests that market value silver sells very well all the time on TSF alone is an odd point to make. Some adverts stick around for a while, but the majority of decently priced silver flies out of the trade section. It's a useful tool for judging the "real" value of silver at any given time. 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Liam84
A misspelled word

[Oliman]

5 hours ago, HawkHybrid said:

 

why does the op specifically need guidance of a fair trade for silver to gold if he can get agreement

on each individual item traded?

 

HH

Sorry mate but merely asking other peoples more experienced opinions on the matter, just getting a gauge on gold and silver sellers thoughts on pricing as others have discussed. 

Apologies for asking for guidance didnt realise was an issue 

[Arganto]

8 minutes ago, Oliman said:

Sorry mate but merely asking other peoples more experienced opinions on the matter, just getting a gauge on gold and silver sellers thoughts on pricing as others have discussed. 

Apologies for asking for guidance didnt realise was an issue 

It's not, don't be put off bud. It's a reasonable question I've pondered myself since I started buying. The reality is, I think, that selling the silver into currency then buying into gold is likely the easiest way, but it's more long winded. Swapping out isn't going to be the big fuss that some consider it to be, but your pool of swappers may be comparatively limited is all.

[HawkHybrid]

1 hour ago, Oliman said:

Sorry mate but merely asking other peoples more experienced opinions on the matter, just getting a gauge on gold and silver sellers thoughts on pricing as others have discussed. 

Apologies for asking for guidance didnt realise was an issue 

 

no one said asking for guidance was an issue.

the thing is there's a lot of disagreement on swapping silver to gold. most of it revolving around how

to price the silver. the difference in pricing silver is huge.

I still don't get why you don't just list the silver for sale? quantitatively how much is adding the gold swap

side going to save you versus buying gold from a separate person?

 

HH