FloJo

Below is the link to two YouTube videos that helped me a lot in understanding the different testing methodologies and why it's important to use different methods.  SWP's video on testing equipment was what made me decide to get the Sigma PMV Pro Mini and the GVS Bullion Tester.   Both are excellent testing equipment.  If these equipment is good enough for a bullion vault, it certainly is good enough for me!  😜
SB Bullion's explanation for the reason of doing multiple testing is clear and concise.   To paraphrase the reason again (at 9:21 mark of the video) for those who are too lazy to watch the video...it is impossible to create fake silver or gold of high purity with 2 or more similar properties such as density, celerity, conductivity, and magnetic susceptibility.   By using different testing methodologies, you will weed out a testing method that passed a PM as authentic.
I highly encourage everyone who wants to know more about testing equipment and testing methodologies to watch both videos.  
 
 

Spotting Counterfeit Silver Coins
By: Jordan Graveline
 
When I first got into coin collecting, I was nervous about whether I would have trouble spotting genuine silver coins from fake coins. Of course everyone tells you to buy from a reputable seller such as a certified dealer, but what if a particular coin you require for the completion of a set is for sale by someone unknown to you? Your options are either buy it or do not buy it. If you decide to risk dealing with someone unknown, it pays to have a little knowledge on how to spot a fake so you don’t get taken advantage of.
For this post, I will be using the Morgan silver dollar as this is one of my favourite coins. If you are collecting a different silver coin however, these tests are still useful for them as well. The major difference is you will have to know the specific specifications of whichever silver coin you are dealing with in order to assist you in determining the genuine coins from the fakes.
The following tests can be used in a wide variety of scenarios to help determine a genuine silver coin from a fake. In any case, it is recommended to use multiple tests because many test results can point to a coin being legit, but it only takes one test to prove a fake.
1). The magnet test - Silver is not magnetic and therefore will not stick to a magnet. The composition of the Morgan dollar is 90% silver and 10% copper. A genuine Morgan will not stick to a magnet.
2). The dimensions test - This is coin specific. The specifications for a Morgan dollar are:
Diameter: 38.1 mm
Thickness: 2.4 mm
3). The weight test - This is coin specific. The Morgan dollar weighs 26.73 grams (Uncirculated).
*** Note *** 
With both the dimensions and weight tests, coins will have slight variance depending on the amount of wear (circulation). Certain tolerances are allowed and should be individually referenced depending on the coin.
4). The ping test - Silver has a very distinct and consistent sound when lightly struck and allowed to ring. Some people flip the coin as if to do a coin toss and listen closely to the sound of the ringing it makes. Others may softly balance the coin on their finger and tap the side of the coin lightly using another coin. Be careful not to scratch a coin that might be a collectible. Some people might opt out from doing this test until they have trained their ear to recognize the sound of silver ringing.
5). Discrepancies and/or surface remarks - Here you are scrutinizing any irregularities that seem out of place or consistencies that seem legit. You may want to note the circulated or uncirculated condition of the coin. This can assist you in explaining variances in the dimensions and/or weight of the coin.
6). Precious Metals Analyzer - There are several devices that coin dealers will use to assist in determining whether a coin/bar contains the correct amount of precious metal content and consistency all the way through the coin/bar. One such device is a Sigma Metalytics Verifier and another is an XRF (X-ray fluorescence) Analyzer. I am not too familiar with how these two devices differ (other than price), but essentially both are able to deduce the metal content (purity) of a coin or bar. Usually these devices are too expensive for the common person, but coin dealers invest in them so they do not lose money when buying coins/bullion from customers.
7). The acid test - When nitric acid is applied to genuine silver, the resulting chemical reaction will change the acid solution to red or brown reddish. When applied to a fake silver coin, the acid solution typically turns blue since there is very little silver content in the coin. This test is done on silver bullion as bullion is priced using the spot price of silver and does not typically carry any collector’s value. A silver coin that may have collector’s value can be damaged by this test and is not typically done.
There are other tests that can assist in determining genuine silver coins. This was just a sample of what is at your disposal as a silver coin collector or silver stacker.
Below I have composed a table containing data from an experiment. Many of the tests mentioned above were used on several coins.
 
  1878-CC
1887-O
1893-CC
1894-S
1895
1896
1899-S
1900-O
Magnetic Test (Does it stick)
No
No
No
No
No
No
No
No
Dimensions
Genuine Morgan Diameter = 38.1 mm
Thickness = 2.4 mm
38.0 mm
2.7 mm
37.9 mm
2.2 mm
38.0 mm
2.5 mm
38.1 mm
3.0 mm
37.9 mm
2.4 mm
37.9 mm
2.4 mm
38.0 mm
2.4 mm
37.9 mm
2.4 mm
Weight
Genuine Morgan = 26.73 grams
25.4 grams
24.8 grams
23.8 grams
26.2 grams
22.3 grams
26.6 grams
23.4 grams
26.7 grams
The Ping Test
High pitch with weak/dull resonance.
Short vibration.
High pitch with strong/clear resonance. Long vibration.
High pitch with weak/dull resonance.
Short vibration.
High pitch with weak/dull resonance.
Short vibration.
High pitch with weak/dull resonance.
Short vibration.
High pitch with strong/clear resonance. Long vibration.
High pitch with weak/dull resonance.
Short vibration.
High pitch with strong/clear resonance. Long vibration.
Discrepancies
Or
Surface Remarks
1) Wider than normal spacing in the reeding.
2) Spatter on five stars near the chin.
1) Heavily circulated. 
2) Surface very smooth.
3) Details consistent with FR02 Grade (Fair).
1) Wider than normal spacing in the reeding.
2) Mid-upper section of the right wing is incomplete.
3) Feels very light weight.
1) Wider than normal spacing in the reeding.
2) The ‘1’ in 1894 looks exceptionally wide.
3) Looks noticeably thicker than most Morgan dollars.
1) Wider than normal spacing in the reeding.
2) Slight copper hue near the date.
3) Double headed (Not a known mint error).
4) The font size on the date is smaller than normal.
5) Feels very light weight.
1) AU Details
2) Even wear
1) Wider than normal spacing on the reeding.
2) Green copper corrosion on the reeding.
3) Spatter near ‘U’ & ‘I’ in ‘UNITED’
4) Feels very light weight.
1) XF/AU details
2) The coin is nearly the original weight despite obvious wear.
3) At 31.5x magnification, a double linear depression can be seen ahead of the ‘D’ in ‘DOLLAR’.
XRF Analyzer
Ag = 6.72%
Ag = 90.11%
Ag = 6.16%
Ag = 5.89%
Ag = 4.32%
Ag = 89.97%
Ag = 5.22%
Ag = 90.36%
Conclusions
Fake
Genuine
Fake
Fake
Fake
Genuine
Fake
Vintage Counterfeit?
 
Using the data from the chart above, discrepancies can be found among the fake Morgan Dollars that make them stand out from the genuine Morgan Dollars. One such discrepancy is the weight of the coin vs. the dimensions of the coin. As seen with the 1895 and the 1899-S fakes, when the dimensions are within specification, the weight of the coin comes in underweight. On the other hand, looking at the 1878-CC and the 1894-S fakes, the weight of the coins are almost on spec (given the circulation). However, the dimensions of these two fakes, specifically their thicknesses, are grossly over what a genuine Morgan Dollar measures.
The last remark I want to make is on the final coin in the chart; the 1900-O. This coin showed wear equivalent to the higher end of extremely fine (XF) or possibly the lower end of almost uncirculated (AU). With this type of wear in mind, the coin still weighed a miraculous 26.7 grams. This is only 0.03 grams away from the weight of a newly minted Morgan Dollar. While I am not an expert on the subject, there is an explanation for a coin such as this. I believe this coin could be a Vintage Counterfeit dating back to between the early 1900s and World War I. It is around this time that the free-market cost of the silver content in a Morgan Dollar was around 45 cents. In theory, one could have spent a dollar and purchased enough silver to create two dollars. With the low cost of silver during that time period, it would have been possible to mint a Morgan Dollar containing the correct amount of silver without losing money. This would have been accomplished through a counterfeit die which would have been cast using a genuine Morgan Dollar. The now counterfeit die can be used to make very close replica Morgan Dollars, which can be passed along through circulation and no one is the wiser. The very last picture posted shows a double linear depression on the 1900-O just before the ‘D’ in ‘DOLLAR’. Depressions such as these are the result of raised lumps on the die and not from circulation or from contacting other coins.
Pictures: 




 

UBI, BECAREFUL, The mouse does not realise why the cheese is free, if we get UBI and CBDC you will be drawn right into the control matrix. Save in precious metals and use all the cash you can when you can.

Because that would to too easy!  And I feel the UBI will be the sweetener/mechanism for governments to open the door on state controlled programmable digital currency.  Once everyone has a state digital wallet it’s not a far step from destroying physical Fiat and shoehorning the population into the new system of control.  I hope that’s not the case but looks like we are heading in that direction. 

I am always in two minds about UBI, previously I would have been with Roy on the issue, but I see how benefits work and if UBI replaces them (I assume that is the intention) then I am all for it. Benefits already keeps my BATS shares paying divis and keeps the off-licence in business, UBI won't make a difference on that front. But it will make things fair, and I am all about that.
I have watched my cousin live a life on the tax payer, handed a living for nearly two decades now for doing nothing. Perhaps half a million in sterling by now if not more. One example of millions. While those that work, pay taxes used to fund this waste and often have a lower quality of life due to not having time. Work you give up time for money. Benefits you give up nothing and get money. Seeing others who have made selfish or wrong choices rewarded with time and money, while I must give up my time, it is a killer. It has destroyed altruism and compassion. 
UBI is a lot more Just than the current system, if it replaces the current system. Everyone gets UBI. Now the worker has UBI plus the wage and is better off for trading his time for money. Work is encouraged and rewarded. Natural order is restored. People who used to cheat and play the system, made a career out of it can no longer do so. I assume the state pension will be paid to everyone now as well, no doubt it will.  
My major problem with UBI is the government. They will use it as a control mechanism. If you say things against xyz no UBI for you. If you don't vote, no UBI for you. If you do stuff they don't like, attend the wrong meeting, talk to the wrong forum member, no UBI for you. It will usher in Social Credit ala Communist China. Its another step on the totalitarian road - but to be honest we are already at the point of no return. Lets keep going. Its pointless arguing against benefits, I am in the minority on this, most think I am heartless when I discuss social security with them, so instead I will say lets have UBI. Bring it on. If we must have tax payer charity then lets have it in the most Just and fair way possible. It will not end well in either case.

Regret being caught, more like. 
Anyway, money is fictional, this the banks don't actually lend you money. You just sign (wet signature) a piece of paper (contract) to say you promise to pay back this 'fictional' loan, plus interests. 

No wonder the banks are 'minting' it.

Maybe it has nothing to do with taxes......... maybe it is a matter of quality control and getting the vakue you are paying for. I got a 2021 monster box of silver Brits and 159 were bad to awful....and non returnable.  I never gat a bad Maple, Phil or Eagle in a monster box. See pic of the worst below! How did that one get out? And I was lucky enough to get 2 of these. Well done, RM.

If you don’t trust the bank, then hide some money at home.  It’s always good to have some fiat within reach.  I’m always reminded of the debacle and suffering of the Afghans after the US pulled out.  Banks closed and no access to bank accounts to pay for food and medicine.  So yes, having cash at home or somewhere within reach is a good idea.  

When I first started, I bought because of the increase in value everyone I listened to were touting😬 but the more I continue on & understand, I buy now because fiat currency will fail and I know we’ll need other means of currency (pm, food, water etc) before the full digital currency sets in! With Saudi Arabia making a deal to sell their oil to Russia, but not in $$$🤔, Crypto (BC) being so violate …… the UK increasing our NHS tax contributions🤔🤦🏾‍♀️ and other little financial decisions being made by governments makes, even me, can begin to connect the dots to the demise of fiat and needing to have ‘something’ or somethings to weather the approaching financial storm.

Don't you worry I read that book as well. It was not the first book on the topic I read but it taught me a lot about Gold and Silver.
I just advise not to go with the hype. Silver will most likely not explode upwards and the Gold Silver ratio will most likely stay about the same.
Just educate yourself and draw your own conclusions when you realize the true value of precious metals.

As I was growing up I remember my grandfather and father finding silver coins in random change and saving them. So I've been doing the same thing my entire life. And when I had the means to do so, I began buying rolls of silver coins and the occasional gold coin, as well.
That's how I was introduced to the concept.

I absolutely agree❗️

A place designed to clog the arteries of working class folk so they don't draw their pensions for too long after retirement.
 

I could be wrong but, only those gold or silver coins that bear the Queen’s image or a monarch’s image could be confiscated?

Another good one to look at is Roman Abramovich.
During Russia in the 80s Roman worked as a mechanic and a "street trader". From there he imported rubber ducks and sold them from his apartment. By 1989 when the Berlin wall fell and he turned his rubber duck business in to making dolls and was legitimate this time because the financial boundaries had changed. After this period he used his "street trader" skills and started trading timber, food, sugar and eventually oil. In 1992 he was arrested and sent to prison for stealing government property and in 1996 he moved into an apartment inside the Kremlin on invite from Boris Yeltsin. By this time he was trading in oil and aluminium and was worth billions. In 2003 he bought Chelsea football club with the change in his back pocket for fun. 
Now I know a lot of the story is probably lost in history but the point I am trying to make is that this man made his way trading what people may have needed according to the current financial hardship. Oil and aluminium "probably" didn't come into play until things were on the up. If you were to ask him the question about how to sell gold and silver during this time, what do you think his answer would be? Would you get market value? My thoughts would you would have had to meet him and his henchmen In a alley somewhere to sort out a deal. 

Hi FloJo,
Glad to hear it worked out well for you.
It is useful to know there were no charges and to have a recommendation.  It will be several months before I make another purchase, but I will bear them in mind when comparing premiums. (They look quite competitive for some coins, assuming I can cope with the stress 😁 ) 
Regards

Hi Tortoise🙃 UPS just turned up with my delivery a couple days after all the drama❗️There were no extra charges to be paid, thankfully, so I’m pleased with the outcome and would purchase again from coin invest.
 
Whatever doesn’t kill you will make you stronger n all that jazz🤗

Yipee!!!! 😁 My Order arrived today 😎 Even after what happened, I would still purchase from Coin Invest dot com again, as their prices for certain gold bars is £200+ cheaper than the UK sites I previously purchased from!
In today's prices a Valcambi 10 x 1/10 oz Gold CombiBar is £1569.67 from Atkinsons Bullion. It's £1471.77 (includes £33.45 Customs Declaration + 2% credit card fee £28.57 + £14.95 p&p) from Coin Invest so, £97.90 cheaper after all fees!
I purchased Heraeus 100 x 1g gold bar from Bullion By Post for £4657. Had I purchased it from Atkinsons Bullion dot com, it would have been £4425 (£232 cheaper). From Coin Invest it would have been £4552 (so £105 cheaper inc. 2% credit card fees & postage/customs). So, Atkinson wins out with that one!
It pays to shop around but, I'm not buying gold from Bullion By Post ever again. I only started stacking (gold & silver) since March this year 2021, and I have certainly had a rapid, indepth education in the last 4 months (seems longer)! During this time (since March 2021) I've bought silver from the Royal Mint UK, silver from APMEX USA on eBay!!!!!! Plus silver CombiBars from other Sellers on eBay - here in the UK, also Germany & USA! I wouldn't do that now! Atkinsons gives me the best deals on silver 100g combibars.
I've been on a steep learning curve since March but now I've run out of fiat currency and can’t buy anything anymore‼️😂
I hope that someone else will learn from my experience and know that they're not alone in this stacking adventure. FloJo x

So..... 🤔 you know how I said, ‘I’ve run our of Fiat currency.’ Well.... I plucked some off the “fiat money tree” and bought 5 x 1oz UNA & THE LION Royal Mint silver bars😬 I haven’t told my hubby yet!😬 (so shiny & pretty) I couldn’t help myself!

05 July 2021: I just want to share my experience with importing Valcambi gold bars x 2 packs, for under £5k, into the UK. I’m a private collector and have NEVER imported gold into the UK before, but it was approx £230+ cheaper to purchase in EUR & ship to the UK, even after a 2% credit card fee! UPS was the Carrier. I was shocked & scared when they emailed me an Investment Gold Declaration to complete - having never done this before - and reached out to coininvest dot com about what I should do! They told me to sign the form and add the following in my return email to UPS:
“I purchased VAT-exempt investment gold for private use as defined in paragraph 2.1 of HMRC Notice 701/21 and as a consequence I should not be charged any import duties or VAT. The purchase was made as a private customer, hence I will not be able to provide any EORI or similar number.”
I hope my experience will help someone who finds themselves in a similar situation.

Yipee!!!! 😁 My Order arrived today 😎 Even after what happened, I would still purchase from Coin Invest dot com again, as their prices for certain gold bars is £200+ cheaper than the UK sites I previously purchased from!
In today's prices a Valcambi 10 x 1/10 oz Gold CombiBar is £1569.67 from Atkinsons Bullion. It's £1471.77 (includes £33.45 Customs Declaration + 2% credit card fee £28.57 + £14.95 p&p) from Coin Invest so, £97.90 cheaper after all fees!
I purchased Heraeus 100 x 1g gold bar from Bullion By Post for £4657. Had I purchased it from Atkinsons Bullion dot com, it would have been £4425 (£232 cheaper). From Coin Invest it would have been £4552 (so £105 cheaper inc. 2% credit card fees & postage/customs). So, Atkinson wins out with that one!
It pays to shop around but, I'm not buying gold from Bullion By Post ever again. I only started stacking (gold & silver) since March this year 2021, and I have certainly had a rapid, indepth education in the last 4 months (seems longer)! During this time (since March 2021) I've bought silver from the Royal Mint UK, silver from APMEX USA on eBay!!!!!! Plus silver CombiBars from other Sellers on eBay - here in the UK, also Germany & USA! I wouldn't do that now! Atkinsons gives me the best deals on silver 100g combibars.
I've been on a steep learning curve since March but now I've run out of fiat currency and can’t buy anything anymore‼️😂
I hope that someone else will learn from my experience and know that they're not alone in this stacking adventure. FloJo x

05 July 2021: I just want to share my experience with importing Valcambi gold bars x 2 packs, for under £5k, into the UK. I’m a private collector and have NEVER imported gold into the UK before, but it was approx £230+ cheaper to purchase in EUR & ship to the UK, even after a 2% credit card fee! UPS was the Carrier. I was shocked & scared when they emailed me an Investment Gold Declaration to complete - having never done this before - and reached out to coininvest dot com about what I should do! They told me to sign the form and add the following in my return email to UPS:
“I purchased VAT-exempt investment gold for private use as defined in paragraph 2.1 of HMRC Notice 701/21 and as a consequence I should not be charged any import duties or VAT. The purchase was made as a private customer, hence I will not be able to provide any EORI or similar number.”
I hope my experience will help someone who finds themselves in a similar situation.

Silver and gold will both shoot up in-line with what's being done by the WHO, WEF and fascist governments under Bill Gates & friends orders. 
Hyper-inflation is coming for most economies which are not raking it in from the fake pandemic, together with food shortages, poverty spikes and lockdown damages such as no healthcase, delayed healthcare and add in the vaccine damages - adverse effects and deaths and all the rest (in total reaching a millon cases soon in the UK alone, and only a few percent are ever reported or recorded).  Several commodities have hyper inflated already and continue to like pork and lumber.  Employment is only available at cult-linked and cult-benefiting companies so for most unemployment is a big problem.  These are just a few things going on in the world.  When currency becomes worthless and you have the likes of China (and more to follow) rolling out trackable digital currency then people will have nowhere to turn but to gold, silver, subsistence farming or bartering in order to trade without having everything monitored and controled by a cult. 
The cult has brought mortality rates back to 2010 levels by killing people with lockdowns (and blaming a "virus") and they will keep driving hard while they are winning, people will continue to lose more freedom and the poor-rich divide gap will continue to widen as people are further enslaved by things such as UBI - sucked up by the poor and in return they have to abide by the demands of the hands that feed them.  In view of this there may be a window to save "money" in gold and silver in the short to mid-term as it shoots up, but in the long term the governments and the cults above them will put an end to it because it is an "out" of their systems, just like they will put an end to cash money which can't be tracked and controled.  Also unless you have enough gold and silver to last a lifetime it's only going so far as you sell off an ounce for $200 for example one week to get a weeks food supplies then next week an ounce might get you $220 in FIAT but the price of the shopping has doubled so you need to sell 2 ounces for $440 to get a weeks food and so on... you will need a large stack to get you and your loved ones though life.

The WEF dictates no one should own anything, as a consumer you will only be allowed to rent things - property and vehicle ownership will end fully and everyone will need to submit fully to the cult narative and dystopia they have decided upon for you.  You will have no stack at this point, everything belongs to the cult, including your life.

When I was still cutting my teeth on silver stacking I bought quite a lot of beautiful silver proofs just like the one you have.
Sturdy boxes, numbered certificate and often low mintage.
They filled a cupboard and then I decided to sell all of them.
Unfortunately the prices I was obtaining were seriously disappointing despite the beauty and perfection of each coin.
I thought they would be more desirable and considering their condition etc merited a premium bad sadly not.
It is all about the demand at the time and if there are any other newbies drawn into the net - like me when I started.
Best of luck moving it on but just sharing my experience for what it's worth.

Yipee!!!! 😁 My Order arrived today 😎 Even after what happened, I would still purchase from Coin Invest dot com again, as their prices for certain gold bars is £200+ cheaper than the UK sites I previously purchased from!
In today's prices a Valcambi 10 x 1/10 oz Gold CombiBar is £1569.67 from Atkinsons Bullion. It's £1471.77 (includes £33.45 Customs Declaration + 2% credit card fee £28.57 + £14.95 p&p) from Coin Invest so, £97.90 cheaper after all fees!
I purchased Heraeus 100 x 1g gold bar from Bullion By Post for £4657. Had I purchased it from Atkinsons Bullion dot com, it would have been £4425 (£232 cheaper). From Coin Invest it would have been £4552 (so £105 cheaper inc. 2% credit card fees & postage/customs). So, Atkinson wins out with that one!
It pays to shop around but, I'm not buying gold from Bullion By Post ever again. I only started stacking (gold & silver) since March this year 2021, and I have certainly had a rapid, indepth education in the last 4 months (seems longer)! During this time (since March 2021) I've bought silver from the Royal Mint UK, silver from APMEX USA on eBay!!!!!! Plus silver CombiBars from other Sellers on eBay - here in the UK, also Germany & USA! I wouldn't do that now! Atkinsons gives me the best deals on silver 100g combibars.
I've been on a steep learning curve since March but now I've run out of fiat currency and can’t buy anything anymore‼️😂
I hope that someone else will learn from my experience and know that they're not alone in this stacking adventure. FloJo x